Ketogenic Eat-Along

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  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited June 2015

    Italychick...I'll try to look that up for you before the weekend.  Here's one right away:  http://www6.miami.edu/ummedicine-magazine/fall2005/fstory4.html

    300 mg is just what I take.  (100 mg capsules, spread out over my day, finished long before supper so it doesn't affect my sleep)  The one study I saw did use 400 mg, but I started slowly building up and 300 is where I felt comfortable.

    Welcome Bevin!  The sticks are usually called Ketostix (I think that's the Bayer brand, but any pharmacy would know what you mean)  They are likely cheapest in Walmart.  You can also check blood levels, which is supposed to be a more accurate test of ketones and glucose levels, but the sticks are supposed to be very expensive. 

    This way of eating is very like Atkins, and it's a big help to have read the chapter for the induction outline.  Ketogenic goes further.  It's high fat, moderate protein, low, low carb. Clean eating. Most recommend eliminating dairy, as well  (If I did that, I would starve)  Some say that grass-fed organic dairy is fine.  Some say to control calories in addition to carbs.  I didn't pick up any books specifically about ketogenic for health, so I can't send you to a specific source. 

    In my case, I know what I want to consume for my tastes and convenience, so if I were to follow a specific way of doing this, I'd have to shop around for the right one.  I am back to adding a Budwig-type FOCC meal, so again, elimination of dairy just wouldn't work for me.  Besides, if we believe Johanna Budwig's research, sulfurated amino acids make the good fats more easily absorbed, so if we cut out dairy, we might not get the goodness out of our healthy fats.  I did see a study...within the last five years?...that backed up the sulfurated protein and oil absorption concept. 

    It is a little confusing, I admit, mostly because there isn't a single guru of ketogenic diet (the way Atkins was for low carb before he ended up with so many imitators).  As a result, there are a lot of variations. 

    I'll try to go back through my research and find you some names.

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited June 2015


    Oh, and from what I've read, the majority seem to go with this:

    20-25 grams of carbs

    1 gram of protein for every pound of lean body weight

    use those numbers to figure out your fat grams at 65-80% fat

     

  • Italychick
    Italychick Member Posts: 2,343
    edited June 2015

    thanks for the posts. I have been taking coq10, and am doing herceptin, and my ejection fraction increased from 57 to 65, the MO is perplexed because she never sees an ejection fraction go up. So I know it is powerful stuff

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited June 2015

    Keto Babes! I went looking for a basic outline of the ketogenic way of eating and found one cheap, cheap, cheap on GooglePlay. Sally Meran _The Ketogenic Diet for Beginners_ It's short and seems to cover all the material. She uses the 65% macro.

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited June 2015

    Another article about coq10

    WWW.life extension.com/Magazine/2006/2/awsi/Page-01

    And this

    Www.ncbi.mom.nih.gov/pubmed/7908519

  • bevin
    bevin Member Posts: 1,902
    edited June 2015


    Thank you. I'll check it out. Looking for some weight loss help and thought this sounded interesting.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2015

    Hi everyone!

    Hi!

    My name is Ashleigh and I am a member of Rice University's OwlSpark accelerator program. I was going through different cancer blogs and I came across this post. I am currently working on a project concerning nutrition and cancer and I wanted to know about how you all manage your diets.

    If you would be willing, I would love to speak with you all more in detail about the project and get your feedback. Feel free to respond to this post or message me! Thank you in advance.

    Kind regards,

    Ashleigh

  • Dee2010
    Dee2010 Member Posts: 80
    edited November 2015

    So happy to find this thread! I tried the ketogenic diet on my ND's advice to prevent cancer cells from growing, and it worked great for about 6 weeks. I lost 25 lbs, my cholesterol cut in half, my BP lowered. Then holidays happened, a month in Spain happened (not that I'm complaining about that!) - in other words, lots of situations where I was not controlling my food. I felt very alone trying this keto diet, and so am thrilled to find you here!

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited November 2015


    Ooh, company! :)  I went off it myself after a vacation and found it tough to get back.  I'm doing it now again, but people in my workplace keep bringing in home baked goods, which isn't making it easy for me!

  • MaryJC
    MaryJC Member Posts: 350
    edited November 2015

    hi ladies I always joke 'tis the season of carbs' lol

  • LeapFrog39
    LeapFrog39 Member Posts: 101
    edited December 2015

    I have a good friend who has diabetes and MS and she went on the ketogenic diet over a year ago and has lost 100+ pounds, has been taken off of insulin and is doing very well. She suggested I give it a try, so I did some research and started using keto this past August. I've lost 41 pounds. There seems to be some controversy with the diet, but it works for me and I feel better than I have in years.

  • beth1965
    beth1965 Member Posts: 455
    edited January 2016

    I am just starting the keto diet - already got some info from this post

    I am doing it for weight as i have gained alot of weight with my cancer and health hopefully does kill cancer cells.

    Any helpful starter hints would be great

    I have asked a few nutristionists/dieticians in my area and no one seems familiar with the ketogenic diet. I was very surprised by this.

    I am searching for information and menu plans . I have really had a hard time finding menu plans. I have found some recipes that's great but I need help with examples of what and how much of what people eat in a day. on youtube they say 10% protein 20% carbs 70% fat or something similar. I thought a menu plan would make things easier to start

  • Texasrose53
    Texasrose53 Member Posts: 354
    edited January 2016

    Hey Ladies,

    I am very interested in the Ketogenic diet....I plan to talk to my ONC about it on Friday. Would love to join your discussion board to share plans, recipes etc...I am doing this for weight (gained 20 pounds since original diagnosis in 2013) and to see if it helps with my mets.

  • letranger
    letranger Member Posts: 234
    edited January 2016

    I was on a pseudo-ketogenic diet. I did it while I was already appetite-suppressed. Yes, I lost 23 lbs in 2 months. My onc was not happy about it, but I think I needed to lose the weight anyways. I chose to eat salads, cheese, eggs, salmon, etc.

    Agness is a ketogenic-diet nerd! I hope he sees this thread. She has some good ideas and recipes.

    Are you using ketostix? I used them to see if I was in ketosis and played with my meal selection that way.

    Just curious to hear what your onc said about the ketodiet. I don't dare talk to mine about it. They just keep telling me to eat!

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited February 2016

    I, too, gained 20 pounds since diagnosis. I think it's the tamoxifen!

    I'm still working myself back into the program, and I wouldn't want to offer an idea of what I eat until I know it's working! When I did Atkins years ago, I lost all sorts of weight, but now I'm fighting against medications and making healthy choices (unlike before when I might just eat a scoop of peanut butter for dinner if I was uninspired).

    I'm using the ketostix. In fact, I was so hungry yesterday for carbs, that I made a deal with myself. If I was in ketosis, good healthy dinner. If I wasn't, carb fest. Thankfully I was in ketosis, so it was a salad with cooked chicken, grated organic cheese, flaked almonds in a home-made dressing of apple cider vinegar (with mother) and avocado oil. I'm experimenting with fat bombs...so far I've discovered I need to make them quite small. Thankfully, I was able to melt down my first attempt and spread it out in my mold.

    I have to say, 10% protein seems pretty low and 20% carbs could be high, depending on your total. Are they doing that by grams or by calories?

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited February 2016

    Beth, I found a couple of meal plans in _Ketogenic Diet for Beginners_ by Sally Moran

    Day 1

    Breakfast

    2 eggs scrambled with 1 cup chopped broccoli, cooked in 1 tbsp butter

    2 slices bacon

    coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream

    Morning Snack

    1/2 Haas avocado (seasoned with salt, pepper and a drizzle of olive oil)

    Lunch

    4 oz salmon

    tomato and mozzarella salad (1/2 beefsteak tomato with 1 oz mozzarella, 1 tbsp olive oil)

    Afternoon Snack

    2 celery stalks each stuffed with 1 tbsp almond butter

    Dinner

    4 oz grilled sirloin steak topped with 1 tbsp butter

    1 cup green beans cooked in 1 tbsp butter with garlic and salt

    1665 calories; 120g fat; 97g protein; 21g net carbs

    Day 2

    Breakfast

    3 small sausage links (jumping in here to say that you really need to check carbs on the package)

    1/4 Haas avocado

    1 cup mushrooms cooked in 1 tbsp butter

    coffee with 1 tbsp heavy cream

    Morning Snack

    1 hard boiled egg

    Lunch

    4 oz shredded chicken mixed with 1/2 cup full-fat Greek yogurt, salt and pepper

    side salad: 1 cup spinach and 1 cup romaine with 1/2 beefsteak tomato and 1/2 cup cucumber, drizzled with 2 tbsp olive oil

    Afternoon Snack

    2 oz ham with 1 oz pepperoni slices

    Dinner

    4 oz grilled London broil topped with 1 tbsp butter and chopped white onions

    1 cup cauliflower roasted and drizzled with 1 tbsp avacado oil, salt and pepper

    1681 calories; 127g fat, 118g protein; 18g net carbs

    Personally I find this a little heavy on processed meats for optimal health, but it's a guideline!

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited February 2016

    Hi Ketobabes! I started using My Fitness Pal for a food tracker, and if anyone else is using a tracker too, I just want to offer a little advice. Do not trust the pre-loaded items! I chose from the list for my flaxseed oil and the numbers were so wrong!! When I checked at home, it seems like someone made a mistake...easy enough to do, but based on those numbers my macros weren't even close.

    I'm creating my own private food list for accuracy

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited February 2016

    In what way was it off? I have found their information to be quite accurate.

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited February 2016

    Hi, Ladies. I'm definitely not ketogenic all the time but I do always reduce carbs and keep my carbs to fruits and veggies and an occasional chocolate. However I like to do a keto period now and again and even fasting in the thought of killing some cancer cells. I am currently doing a two week low carb challenge with my husband and I have lost 3.3 lbs in 6 days and (of course) he has lost 9. Second day was a little hard but otherwise I have felt fine although I really look forward to eating a bowl of blueberries or some strawberries one day. Since I had already reduced carbs considerably, I think its been a little easier on me than my DH but he is sticking to it also.

    Beth, here's what I've been eating. I don't eat breakfast. I take a big commuter mug of coffee to work with some cream and a teaspoon of coconut oil in it. I make double for dinner so I can take some for lunch the next day, so I'll explain what I've eaten for dinner. One night was cheeseburgers with sauteed mushrooms and onions on the side, or course no bun. One night I made chicken breast with just a little tomato sauce and mozzarella on top. Chicken fajitas with onion, cheese and avocado. Another night I made pork chops sauteed in butter. Next night was scallops in butter. My husband made a brisket with dry rub on it (no sugar). So we eat a normal portion of protein and low carb veggies and salad greens. Eat enough fat (dressing, butter, etc) so you're not hungry. Make sure your veggies are low carb and your dressing has no sugar. I only bought broccoli, cauliflower, romaine lettuce and bleu cheese dressing. Sometimes at lunch I've been sick of meat so I take the romaine and dressing and use cottage cheese as my protein. I also made some hard boiled eggs to eat if we get hungry any time in between. Its been really easy, honestly. Today I didn't eat until 2:30 pm - wasn't hungry until then. I haven't tested for ketosis, but sure feels like I am because I am not very hungry.

    Milaandra, I haven't used My Fitness Pal for two years, but at the time I also felt some of the stuff was inaccurate, and I even wondered if they may have used what people entered sometimes. If I am looking for any nutrition info, I like to use USDA nutrient database.

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited February 2016

    When you add a new food, the site asks if you want it available to the whole community, so much of what appears on the list has just been added by other members. In this specific case, I think they put the calories in the fat gram box. If I hadn't double-checked the numbers, I'd have been way off because it's a food I try to eat every day.

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited February 2016

    When you add a food it adds it to your list, not their database. Otherwise the database would be full of incorrect stuff

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    With a few significant lapses (foreign travel, winemaker dinners, 65th birthday, and my post-dx/pre-New Year’s pity party), I’ve been low-carb since Jan. 2013, even during holidays. Lost 50 lbs.--trips to Spain, New Orleans and the aforementioned pity-party (before the Spain trip, the winemaker and birthday dinners I maintained my loss) caused me to regain 20 lbs. So now that I started letrozole on New Year’s Eve, I decided that I needed to “get back on the horse” in order to keep the inevitable lowered metabolism from making me gain weight. Just saw my MO--have lost a pound since my first appt. with her in Oct., so she’s happy--and says if I keep my weight steady she’ll consider it a victory and if I lose any more it’ll be (flourless) gravy.

    Here in Chicago there’s a brand of low-carb 100% whole wheat bread called Today’s Temptations that tastes like real bread (unlike that awful Paleo Bread crap) and is only 2 net gm. of carb per slice. It’s available freshly baked, rather than the much more expensive Sami’s brand sold frozen at a couple of health food stores. Alyssa’s Cookies (online-only outside FL) have only 2 gm. net per cookie for their Healthy Vegan Bites and Dark Chocolate Almond varieties.

    Of course, you’ve deduced I am not following a strictly ketogenic diet. I am eating like this for weight loss (or regain-prevention), not to cure or prevent recurrence of cancer (except indirectly via losing some fat cells). Any time I see a specific diet claiming to prevent or cure cancer, my woo-woo detector needle goes into the red zone. My MO and PCP both said “just don’t eat any white stuff except cauliflower, chicken breast, fish and a little bit of organic full-fat dairy” (said “white stuff” being, of course, sugar and starch and everything that contains or turns into it before it even hits your stomach). Even the brown stuff is very, very limited for me.

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited February 2016

    So I got curious about the My Fitness Pal discussion and found this from an interview with the app developer: We don't go direct to the food manufacturers to get the food data, in most cases," said Lee. Rather, it is crowdsourced. In other words, MyFitnessPal's users upload the data and check it for accuracy. YIKES!

    ChiSandy. The idea behind Ketogenic diet to treat cancer stems from the Warburg effect and the belief by some that it is a metabolic disease. If you're curious, look for videos from Dr. Thomas Seyfried or Rainer Klement on youtube. On the fasting side, look for Valter Longo at USC. Similar theories, starving cancer cells. The Ketogenic researchers feel it may be similar to fasting. Both groups are looking at combining these with regular treatment, chemotherapy and radiation, or at least Longo (chemo and fasting) and Klement (radiation and ketogenic diet) are.

  • inkster
    inkster Member Posts: 93
    edited June 2016

    Checking in as it seems this thread has gone dark. Some of my friends are on the keto diet and love it. I'm thinking about giving it a go, but perhaps slowly. Like using up what I've got in terms of bread/crackers/sweets and then not buying anymore. I live alone, so it's not like I can foist them off on someone else. ;) Got a good resource or book to recommend? Anything happen over the last 4 months that made you change your mind and stop? Risks/benefits?

  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited June 2016

    Hi there! Sorry...life got busy.

    I've had a few false starts, but I think I have it down now, with four or five weeks of on-target low carb eating. I'm going to start paying more attention to my macros, now that I've broken the cycle of cravings and stress eating.

    Mornings were difficult for me. I don't get enough sleep because of my husband's shift work, and the last thing I wanted to do was cook and eat before work. I started reading about intermittent fasting which lead me to bulletproof coffee. There's a lot of controversy about it. Some say it's fasting, others say it isn't, some say it isn't actually good for you. But I like it! It's a great way for me to get coconut oil in my diet regularly, keeps me going until lunch and starts me with a good dose of fat that controls cravings. That's important, because work is the place where the carbs are...people bring in home baking or someone brings in big trays of meat pies and doughnuts. People make toast and eat bowls of cereal at their desks. I found I could turn it down for about an hour or two, then I'd cave. That doesn't happen any longer.

    If you haven't heard of Bulletproof Coffee, it's grass-fed butter and coconut oil blended into hot coffee...surprisingly tasty. There's information on the web. If you decide to try it, you really need to use an immersion blender for a few seconds. Otherwise it's a big oily mess!

    Inkster, I'm a firm believer of baby steps...I'm sure if you only buy new groceries that are on program, it won't take long before that's all you have in the cupboard. You could use the interim time to make changes. I used to find it easier when I lived alone, so that's a real advantage for you! I even see a difference when my husband is on backshift. I'm more inclined to make the focus of my dinner a great big salad. When my husband is home for dinner, the focus is on the protein aspect, and veggies are mainly there to fill the corners.

    The good news is, now he can chomp away on potato chips after dinner, or have a Snickers as an after-work snack, and it doesn't bother me at all.

    The best little guide I've seen is Sally Meran _The Ketogenic Diet for Beginners_. I found it on GooglePlay, and it's straight-forward, short, informative and cheap! There are a variety of versions of ketogenics, but I like the information set out in this book.

    Now, just to make life more confusing, has anyone heard of the "reverse Warburg" effect?

  • inkster
    inkster Member Posts: 93
    edited June 2016

    Milaanddra - you are fabulous! Thank you so much for the info. And congrats on the success. My old swim coach used to say it takes 6 weeks to make a habit but only two to break it (he was preemptively berating us before the break between swim seasons). You're so close to the 6 week mark.

    I've heard a bit about Bulletproof Coffee, including that it's good. I, too, don't get much sleep (thanks for the hot flashes, tamoxifen!) and this could be just the ticket to getting me out of the house in a reasonable amount of time in the morning while helping me resist the never ending supply of carbs in my office. I've weeded a lot of the carbs out of my house and may give my neighbor a bunch of groceries. The dark chocolate I'll take to the office. Sigh. Gonna miss that the most.

    I've been eating mostly keto the last few days and am surprised at how full I feel. Bonus: I'm starting to actually lose a bit of weight. Now, to see if the rumors about it reducing hot flashes are true...

    (Nope on the reverse Warburg effect, but I'll be looking that up.)


  • Milaandra
    Milaandra Member Posts: 271
    edited June 2016

    before you give away your dark chocolate, check the carbs. Some are so low that if you have the willpower to just eat a couple of squares, it can be a justified treat!


  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited June 2016

    Dark chocolate is pretty safe if it’s 72% cocoa solids or higher (which neither Dove Dark, Godiva Dark, nor Hershey’s Special Dark are). 85% and above are even better--and those with cocoa nibs add fiber. Ghirardelli’s 86% Intense Dark (or is it Midnight Magic) individually-wrapped squares are delicious and satisfying. And at Eataly I found an 88% bar with Sicilian sea salt that is absolutely yummy--the salt cuts the bitterness. I also found some 72% sugar-free extra dark and blood-orange dark (they use sugar alcohols, which can have a laxative effect too) at WF. Lindt Excellence 85% & 90% are safe--but the 90% is alkali-processed which cuts down on the healthful flavonoids. And I like Green & Black 85% better than many 74-77% brands.

    I fell off the horse rather spectacularly in March through May, traveling to London, Lausanne, Paris, San Antonio and most recently, NC. Wine with every dinner while traveling may have contributed to my undoing, as well as the quality of the breads in Europe, the Mexican food in TX and the BBQ in NC. (Although the music conference I attended in the Blue Ridge had many low-carb options on the buffets, the dessert table included not just berries & melon but coconut cake--a must when I’m in the South--as well as no-sugar-added pies, which were tough to eat w/o the crust. And of course, biscuits & gravy on the breakfast buffet....)

    So after finding to my horror I’d gained 13 lbs. on a combination of letrozole and lax discipline, I went back to low-carb. No more than a pint of wine a week (and if I have a full glass one night, I teetotal for at least the next two). In the course of a week and a half I’ve lost 7 of those pounds! I also just joined my insurer’s fitness program (not the free Silver Sneakers, which it doesn’t offer, but $25/mo).

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited June 2016

    Inkster, the two week challenge I did was on dietdoctor.com. He's a Swedish doctor who believes in low carb. They give you a shopping list and a lot of good recipes. I found it really helpful at getting started and for the planning, because of course the downfall of any diet is not planning ahead.

    I'm not staying in ketosis although I try to keep carbs low every day. My downfall is mexican food and specifically corn tortillas. I can give up the rice, beans, and flour tortillas but corn tortillas and tortilla chips do me in! Still I feel I've made a huge improvement by giving up a lot of carbs on day to day basis. I don't miss bread or pasta and most sweets are now too sweet when I do splurge.

    P.S. Lindt truffles are 15 grams carb for 3, so if I crave chocolate I will have three of those.

  • beth1965
    beth1965 Member Posts: 455
    edited June 2016

    so glad I found this I am new to keto and this thread is so helpful. Love the meal plans for the day


    Do you all have bulletproof coffee everyday?


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