Drug Creates Inhospitable Environment for bc Progression

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  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited June 2015

    Hi :

    The supplement that Euromed uses to lower copper is called TM and is made in a compound pharmacy. I am going to aske the lady that told me about this

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  • floaton
    floaton Member Posts: 181
    edited June 2015

    "Pace of TM Research? Since TM is an industrial chemical that was not invented and patented by a drug company, there appears to be little incentive for private funding of research on TM as a cancer treatment. Without market competition we should only expect government research, and if there are no political pressures, then we might expect rather slow progress in future TM related research."

    Leggo, here's a possible answer to your question of "why isn't this a treatment?" as speculated upon by a layperson named David Saum, who has a webpage re: how he attempted to treat his brother's gbm this way.

    http://www.infiltec.com/anticopper/

    It's under the "speculations" section of the webpage, and I think he expressed it rather succinctly.

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  • new2bc
    new2bc Member Posts: 559
    edited June 2015

    Hi Deanna,

    I warned you about the calcium you were taking a few months ago which contained copper based on Dr. William Li . Thanks for the link you provided which backs up this theory.

    leggo,

    It is good to take zinc because it reduces the copper in the body. I take about 15 mg of zinc. Copper and zinc work like a see saw.

    There is a book by Ann Louise Gittleman, " Why am I always so tired?" that explains most of her patients who were always exhausted, had high levels of copper.

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  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2015

    "Copper doesn't cause cancer, but that copper in drinking water does influence cancer proliferation".

    That's the part that makes no sense to me. A healthy person flushes cancer cells all the time so technically not enough left to "cause" tumors, right? If copper proliferated those we'd normally flush, resulting in too many for our immune system to handle, it's going to "cause" tumors. Knowing what I know now, copper seems like a pretty good culprit to blame for the high incidences of cancer. Seems to me, it would also explain the lower incidences of cancer in places without copper plumbing. Combine the copper pipes along with copper rich foods and I think we have a problem.

    Floaton, thank you for your post and the link. I was hoping there'd be a better reason but I'm not surprised, and it bugs me. Heaven forbid we use a treatment that costs a few bucks instead of several thousands..... How ever would the sleazy pharmaceutical companies survive? Every time I get hopeful that they might do the right thing, they never fail to disappoint me.

    New2bc, thank you for telling me about the zinc. My eyes were bleeding from trying to wade through all that info.

    Now onto my next concern. Looks like reverse osmosis water systems actually cause copper pipes to leach MORE copper. Guess who's used it for years? Geezus, I'm gonna lose it. Back to the drawing board. F*ck.

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    leggo, as I just reading your reverse osmosis comment, I literally broke out laughing! I can see why some people choose not to drive themselves crazy with this stuff, or what to eat, or whether or not to drink alcohol, etc., because it seems like the more you delve the crazier it gets!

    new2bc, thanks for the reminder about the calcium supplement. I'm still taking the Jarrow Bone Up, but I take the 3x/day version only 2x day. A full serving (3) has 50% of the RDA for copper, but this becomes a rock and a hard place issue for me with bone mets. I clearly need to keep my bones as strong as possible, especialy since I'm not on Xgeva at the moment, and I think the minerals are very important for that purpose. But since I just ran out of this product, I am going to read a few more labels before picking up my next bottle.

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  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2015

    image

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  • new_direction
    new_direction Member Posts: 449
    edited June 2015

    found some articles a while ago about copper:
    http://eatandbeatcancer.com/2014/03/01/anti-cancer-diets-and-the-pitfalls-of-plants-part-1-copper-and-zinc/
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131114102526.htm
    http://www.wndu.com/mmm/headlines/Stopping-copper-to-stop-cancer-204898791.html?device=phone

    sorry if it has already been posted :)

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    Thank you for the excellent links, new_direction! I'm amazed at how much information exists re. the potential role of copper or excessive copper in breast cancer, yet I don't think I've heard of one onc or integrative doc bringing this up to anyone here.

    Without debating the holistic/alternative viewpoint of Dr. Mercola, this article via FB today made me wonder... Has anyone looked at what a combination of copper (from water pipes) and flouride might have? For example, could the flouride cause more copper leaching from the pipes?

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  • bama351
    bama351 Member Posts: 42
    edited June 2015

    Am I understanding the article correctly? The drug shows to cut down on reoccurrences for all bc's but seems to be particularly effective for TN?

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    bama, that's how I understood the results -- helpful to both, but a bit more helpful for TNBC.

    "After a median follow-up of 5.6 years, the progression-free survival was 81% for all patients, and 94% for patients with stage II/III triple-negative disease. Copper depletion was most efficient in patients with triple-negative breast cancer, who comprised 48% of the study group."

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  • geewhiz
    geewhiz Member Posts: 1,439
    edited June 2015

    Saw my doc (oncologist/naturopath) this morning. He wants to start me on the pills. I can't seem to find any reason not to - looks promising, and my levels are really way outside the reference range. The pills must be compounded. He wants to do bloodwork to keep tabs on progress and to make sure other levels are good during treatment. Seems like the initial 'copper drop' doesnt take much more than a month to get in normal range. I think you stay on them for awhile afterwards.

    Do most water filters filter out the copper? I should look into it.


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  • geewhiz
    geewhiz Member Posts: 1,439
    edited June 2015

    Great links - thank you NewDirection.


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  • new_direction
    new_direction Member Posts: 449
    edited June 2015

    using a Water filter - for instance berkey - will remove most of the copper.

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  • labelle
    labelle Member Posts: 721
    edited June 2015

    http://www.naturalnews.com/046536_water_filters_he...


    I have a ZeroWater filter (countertop pitcher model) and I'm keeping it.

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    Just talking to the guy who installed the new A/C unit we had to spring for today, and was interested to learn that A/C units also have copper piping. He didn't think there's any output of copper particles into the air, but it came up b'cuz he was telling me how bad the new refrigerant that's replacing freon is because it eats away at the copper in the A/C unit faster than freon does. Just another little tidbit about copper in our homes...

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  • new_direction
    new_direction Member Posts: 449
    edited June 2015

    points in direction of "treatment" of accumulation of copper

    http://www.wilsonsdisease.org/wilson-disease/wilsondisease-treatment.php

    It seems an easy to-do is adding zink to the daily intake of supplements...

    http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2013/enviromed0813.html

    we are in many ways on our own but many things give hope after all.

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    Thanks for those links, new_direction. So do you think it's prudent and/or safe to simply add a zinc supplement?

    Has anyone asked their onc or ND to be screened for their copper levels? And does anyone know if it's a basic blood test that can be added to a panel? What about hair analysis? Is that any better, or is it even done these days? It's something I seem to recall in the past as being touted as more accurate for mineral evaluation than the snapshoot we get from blood.

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  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited June 2015

    they test ceruloaplasmin levels

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  • geewhiz
    geewhiz Member Posts: 1,439
    edited June 2015

    My doc tested serum copper and ceruloplasmin.The labs do have reference ranges that correspond with what I found as normal by googling. Simple blood test. I think the hair test is more efficient, though I have never done it and I bet insurance doesn't cover it. Insurance covered the others for me.

    I know my doc was making a point to keep iron/ferritin in check. The TM can throw it off, though its ok to be a bit low in iron as cancer patients...but I'm anemic out of the gate so we will be keeping an eye out.

    My red blood cells never really bounced back after chemo either. This last CBC pointed that out. Again. One thing at a time!

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  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited June 2015

    Hi Geewhiz: are u working with a naturopath?, I asked my oncologist yesterday and he has no idea about copper. I need to find someone willing to work with me, I moved to Las Vegas from DC and haven't found anyone here

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    srh, here's a possible lead on an ND for you. Mine belongs to this association, and it looks like there's someone listed in LV.

    http://www.oncanp.org/find_state.html#nv

    There's also a Society for Integrative Oncology. I don't see a "Find A Doctor" link on their website, but there's a phone number.

    https://www.integrativeonc.org/


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  • geewhiz
    geewhiz Member Posts: 1,439
    edited June 2015

    Hi Srh242,

    I have a regular oncologist who is incredibly open minded (wants me on metformin, melatonin, vit d, daily aspirin and calcium-d-glucarate ) but I primarily use my naturopath who is also an ND and an MD and practices in an office with other MD's (specializing in oncology). I have gone through several docs to find the ones I have now. I love that they show me more studies than I show them!

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  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited June 2015

    Geewiz:that's amazing !, I always know more than the regular oncologists I have seen in this country😆. The first one I saw in Las Vegas asked me how long I was going to be on the aromasin , lol. What state are you in

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    I wonder if anyone's done research to determine if flouridated water leaches more copper from pipes than non-flouridated water? And what about PVC pipes? I would think the hormone disrupting stuff in plastic could be as bad or worse than copper if it's getting into our drinking water.

    http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/08/28/no-...

    And off topic for just a moment, this article also made me wonder if flouride might be one of the reasons behind the increase in autism, ADHD and/or Alzheimers.

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  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited June 2015

    what is the best water filter ?

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited June 2015

    I think it may depend on your water. Ours is by Aquasana. My DH researched the type we were after (tap only; not whole house), and it fits our needs. They also have great customer service. When we had a part wear out, they upgraded us to a newer unit free of charge.

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  • slv58
    slv58 Member Posts: 1,216
    edited June 2015

    We are in the middle of getting an RO system. I like the very positive feedback on Amazon for the ispring re-mineral unit. It seems inexpensive for what you get and filter price is cheap. There weren't too many negative things said. We also use a zero water pitcher but because our water is so poor I'm changing expensive filters too frequently. Hopefully having an RO unit will help.

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  • geewhiz
    geewhiz Member Posts: 1,439
    edited June 2015

    You know Deanna, I breastfed my oldest son exclusively - no supplementing so the pediatrician told me to give him a fluoride vitamin drop. He HATED it, threw it up daily but the doc insisted we do it. Well when his teeth came in they had white spots allover that the dentist called "fluorosis", caused by excessive fluoride. I am so pissed. I hadn't yet learned to trust our body's instincts. But when I researched studies on the effects of fluoride, I was stunned and frankly scared for my son's future health. But alzheimers was one of the many chronic issues that seem to be associated with excessive fluoride. I could kick myself, I swear.


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  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2015

    So I had a visit with the doc about the copper thing. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, he mumbled something about copper when I first met him and looked in my eyes. Turns out he did that because apparently, too much causes a brown ring around your iris. He didn't go into details at the time because he said all I could do to prevent it was filtering it out of my water, which he already knew I did, so he didn't elaborate. So to address your statement Deanna, about docs not addressing the issue, I guess they do, albeit without my knowledge. Keep any eye on your eyeballs.

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  • geewhiz
    geewhiz Member Posts: 1,439
    edited June 2015

    That is so interesting Leggo - I just googled it up...the rings are called Kayser Fleischer rings.Docs apparently look for them when diagnosing disease. I need to stare at my eyeballs next time I am near a mirror! Too funny! I am supposed to start with the IV's soon - just have been busy with 3 kiddos home for summer and not wanting to taking time out.

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