PAIN MEDICATION DENIAL--IS IT TIME TO FIND A LAWYER
Now I've never sued anyone, even though I may have had grounds to sue. But I do know(almost) what's suit worthy. Walgreens enters into the state data base that a consumer has been turned down. The next pharmacists checks and see's that the consumer has been turned down. The red flag goes up. They deny the consumer b/c they perceive the consumer is drug seeking, and that's entered into the consumers record. Red flag. Then the next pharmacist turns the consumer down. It's a domino effect. Soon the consumer is effectively blackballed by the state system b/c per the state record they're repeated entries for denial.
The importance of the exposure of this by the Walgreen ex-employee Marianne Ryan, is lawyers are going to jump all over this. Soon we will be hearing of a class action suits. GOOD. Blondie has been subjected to it. So, has Bon. I've read here of others. There was a thread last year on the topic. A stage IV gal ( Raro ?) wanted to know who else was experiencing the same thing. Her story was identical to what Blondie told us that she went through trying to get her pain meds refilled. The cat's out of the bag now.
Walgreen's may have had to pay 80 million to the government, the first consumer class action will be equal or more. I think I'll just C&P this with Mags link and start a thread.
What other companies and pharmacists acting as agents of their companies are guilty of the same slander and or libel? What those individual pharmacist don't realize and the companies is if there is any trail of showing unjust cause----they are sunk as a company and individually. Individual liability or are they shielded by company liability. Individual liability may seem to be absent because they were functioning within the boundaries of their companies guidelines, but if a script was filled previously and subsequently that will be a problem for that pharmacist. Oodles of scenarios as to how the laws apply.
What is the liability of the government that maintains a data base that slanders and or libels consumers based on biased evaluations of pharmacist? Trying to sue the government is a rare win. But they've left them self open, because it's blatant that they didn't create safeguards to protect the consumer.
GO GIRLS, Get'em in the Gonads.
Comments
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Thanks for this, Sassy. I'm trying to stay off them but with all my other issues that may not be realistic. How crappy is it that people who are just looking for a good time make it rough for those of us who have issues with chronic pain, whether from cancer or even just plain ol miserable arthritis?
But is it, really, government's job to protect us from ourselves? Because that's what this comes down to.
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Mags, The federal government had to do something about the oxy abuse. But their action had the unintended but real consequences of making those that legitimately need pain control out to be druggies.
Money talks. I can't see any other way of changing the system than a class action. Walgreens arrogantly expected no one to leak what they were doing. Ryan is the whistleblower to this scenario as Snowden was to the NSA or what ever government agency he blew the whistle on.
But a class action takes money. Law firms specialize in this area of law. When they do take it on it's by contingency. Not sure where to start. I hope someone's got it going and we just haven't heard of it yet.
Thanks for posting Mags. sassy -
I worry what will happen next time I need them, as I surely will. My PCP had me on them 4x a day, then I had 2 surgeries, so a different doc, then the RO this year. I'm switching to a new PCP because the cancer clinic now has a family clinic and I know when I need blood draws they won't have a problem with my port, and I like having everything under one roof. What if she wants me on them now? I shudder to think.
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Mags, A personal rule I established in 2010 was all controlled substances were prescribed by my PCP. I did this when I realized my DH(Lymphoma) was double dipping. I ratted him out. His pain was uncontrolled, he thought no one would control his pain. 'Get what he could from whom ever' ( my term, not his). The PCP then worked towards getting his Lymphoma pain under control. He didn't need to worry about pain. PCP did great until the end----different discussion--not appropriate to topic. I had it put into my medical record and DH's that all controlled substances would only be prescribed by PCP.
I did see a problem post thyroidectomy in Feb 2014 that the Pharm doc was taking a prolonged period of time filling scripts. I asked what the deal was. I was told they had a different way of doing drug dispensing b/c the state was tracking scheduled drugs. It was then I noticed others on these boards were discussing this same thing.
This is why this issue is so important. A patient is prescribed pain meds by their doc for a specific medical reason. Where in the law does it allow an intervening third party i.e. a Pharmacist to use their judgment to deny the filling of that script. Verification --yes. Denial--no.
The entry into a data base of a denial based on a Pharmacist personal judgment. Then that information is released to other pharmacists that then allows the next Pharmacist to make a judgment. I previously said in the topic box it's domino effect. A patient is 'documented' by the system as being a drug seeker by the word 'denial'-----the reality is they are just trying to get a script filled.
When I say 'documented' as a drug seeker. Denials are a huge red flag. Once that flag is there, it's no taking it back. YET, that Pharmacist does NOT have the contact with the patient to determine Medical Necessity. Making a phone call to the doc and then deciding if they are going to fill the script. No, big NO.
There are pill mills. That's what the government is trying to stop.
We have to be proactive to stop the interference with rightful pain prescriptions. The cancer community as a whole needs to be all over this.
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Just me Sass. Still digesting this and trying to bump this up. Love to hear from those who were/are affected by this
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Not sure that this goes with the total subject, but idk where to turn to. I have been taking care of my husbands grandmother, with stage IV IBC, bone cancer and a stomach tumor, for 1.7 years now. She has been a fighter, doing all she has been asked of and made it 7 months past her timeline from diagnosis. I am SO proud of her and the length she has come, but recently she was put in the hospital for bowel movements and nausea (important for me to say NO vomiting before hand!). Going she had been walking with her walker to get out of the house, but coming out she had to be literally picked up and transferred into my van and out of it.Now unable to walk or even sit up on her own. We had to call and get a hospital bed brought in for her. The biggest thing is that it IS the hospital staffs fault!! They allowed her to go through withdrawals while she was in there. Not giving her, her scheduled pain meds and even on some days none at all. Allowing her Bp to get to 181 (sorry I don't remember bottoms as the tops shocked me too bad) and on the last day before leaving AMA 191. She was in there for six days and hadn't eaten since the second day being in there! By the third day the DT's had kicked in and she was unable to keep anything down (this was their excuse for not giving her ANY meds for 2 days of it anyway). She is also on nerve meds as she broke her tail bone (that is how she found out and was diagnosed with all of this) and had burning sensations down her legs. Due to 2 epideral shots and her nerve meds, her legs had gone numb and tingly, but upon coming home and trying to get her bed discovered she was unable to stand even just a finger being lightly placed on her legs. Now she is no longer a fighter! Due to the huge fall backwards, she wants no more treatment and no longer wants to she the drs. They broke her both psychically and mentally. I tried to contact a lawyer as there are so many things, but they said due to her being 81 and terminally ill they don't feel they can proceed with the case. What do I do? I have never wanted or gone for a lawsuit, but feel they need to pay and be held accountable for what they have done to this poor woman!
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All4, I can make some suggestions. You could start with #5 first, but depends on how hot you are. You could wait to see how the hospital investigates before contacting the other agencies. I read your story and am aghast that she was treated in this manner. My tendency if it were my mom would be to contact everyone I could. If this facility so mismanaged her care, they are doing it to others.
I. I sent a pm to Charles Pelkey, he is a BCO member for 3 years. He's a lawyer. He has BC. He doesn't check in regularly. If he does respond I know he has to be careful about how he responds because he can't give advice outside the states he's licensed in. If he does respond he will likely be able to talk in generalities.
2.contact Medicare ombudsman on the 800 number and make a complaint. If the hospital receives Medicare reimbursement--Medicare takes complaints very seriously. This will put the heat on the hospital to investigate.
http://www.medicare.gov/claims-and-appeals/file-a-complaint/complaints.html
3. contact Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation(JCAHO) and make a complaint. JCAHO, also, will investigate and put the heat on the hospital.
4 contact the state department of elder abuse.
5 contact the community relations specialist for the hospital----call the main hospital number and ask for the person assigned to handling complaints re poor care
I'll be back with addresses and phone numbers sassy
This link has all of the above on one page ---cool---state, medicare, JCAHO
http://empoweredpatientcoalition.org/report-a-medical-event/report-a-hospital-or-facility/
Let us know what happened?
More thoughts. Try to write down the whole scenario from day one. Facts only, no emotions or embellishments(not said to offend, using it from a legal thought). Do this now while the thoughts are still fresh .i.e. did you notify staff of changing condition that you observed, how did they respond, did they do anything? You will have to produce info and time has a way of allowing us to forget. Your original post includes enough to get the complaint moving. The "empowered page " has details for each agency as to how to proceed.
Get a copy of the entire medical record from Medical Records for this admission. There is a process and you may have to pay a per page fee. You will need to have your Power of Attorney papers with you and a picture ID. If you don't have Power of Attorney that complicates things a bit. But the medical Records person can walk you through it. Not absolutely necessary to do this, but you can compare your notes to what they documented and see where there are any variances.
Thanks for your post. Locating that "empowered" link is very good. Wish I didn't have to find it for you
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Found another article on the same line…
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Mags, the battle has only started.
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bump
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It is ridiculous how these providers were sworn to help relieve human suffering, yet they let money or who knows what it is that they are thinking, affect their judgements. Instead of healing, they contribute to the drugs problem we have in this country...it's ashamed. Because of these guys, it makes it difficult for other physicians to continue to treat their chronic pain patients without worrying about DEA coming after them.
Pharmacies have to play police. It is upsetting when pharmacists turn a blind eye on drug deterrence or when they themselves are involved in the same scheme. For the ones that are doing their jobs to prevent deterrence, it is not easy- on the one side they have the DEA breathing down their necks and on the other side they have to use their judgements to make sure that legit patients don't suffer because of the tight control. In the end,we all suffer because of these bad apples.
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I can't read the "pain patients struggle" link without answering a survey, or registering. What was the general jist of the article? Curious as to who's being blamed in the article.
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Sassy, you'll find this interesting.
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Hope they listen, Fear on the part of the Pharmacist is real. Fear they will loose their license. Thanks Mags for keeping an eye out for these articles. Individually they don't carry much clout. Brought here as you are doing makes everyone aware of the danger.
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Medications containing buprenorphine:
buprenorphine systemic
Brand names: Subutex, Butrans, Buprenex, Belbuca
Drug class(es): narcotic analgesics
Buprenorphine systemic is used in the treatment of:Multi-ingredient medications containing buprenorphine:
buprenorphine/naloxone systemic
Brand names: Suboxone, Zubsolv, Bunavail
Drug class(es): narcotic analgesic combinations
Buprenorphine/naloxone systemic is used in the treatmentThanks Mags, It's a wonder it sticks to the cheek. ????????????
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I posted the link for us but also for a handy spot to save it to share with PCP as I would be interested in trying it. I have a rx for hydrocodone/ibuprofen (ibuprofen works better on me) 5mg 3x a day with the understanding that I could stretch out the rx and use as needed, so I take one a day, if I need to do something. Days like today, do nothing/sit around days I don't take one. Pain saps the energy so badly that without meds I do well making the bed and playing with Rose a bit. With one I can do a little more than that.
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Get that. Have you tried Ultram/tramadol? Non opiod, no hassle on scripts. Usual first few doses are strange, then it's pretty easy drug with minimal s.e.'s (constipation biggy for me). Nice pain control.
Not sure why Buprenex wasn't used more. At one time years ago, I thought it was a drug that should be more used........but those memories are faded. It would help here, bummer. Suboxone, my PCP was certified to use the drug for those folks wishing to get off things like long term OXY where they might get into a withdrawal thingy. I never studied the drug, but posted about her program in an old pain post as an FYI thing. Suboxone is buprenorphine and naloxone(narcan reversal agent for opiods). There must be something special about buprenorphine.
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Tried ultram several times, hoping it would work. Not at all. No effect. (Same with acetaminophen).
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Getting back to the legal aspects of this (I still have my law license though I’ve retired--and I am NOT giving legal advice here nor am I undertaking to represent anybody here, especially in the 48 states where I’m not licensed):
I used to be an Asst. Atty. Gen. for IL, in the Court of Claims Div. The Court of Claims is not part of the court system (except for ultimate appeals to the state Supreme Ct.), but rather an administrative agency, created by a statute establishing it. Why? What does that have to do with this thread?
Because not just the Federal gov’t but almost all the states have “sovereign immunity.” That means, except for statutory exceptions specifically allowing it in specifically enumerated cases.....THEY CAN’T BE SUED. If your state does agree to be sued under limited circumstances set forth by statute (and that statute creating a special forum such as a Court of Claims), under those statutes there’s a very specific procedure for doing so, and also a very short time window for filing a claim with the appropriate agency, shorter even than the normal statute of limitations for the particular thing about which you’re suing.
So a class action suit would have to be filed against the particular pharmacy (and its pharmacists) refusing to fill your prescription and passing that info along to other pharmacies. You would end up suing many different pharmacies and the corporations that own and run them, and you would have to do so in many states. You would also have to “join” as plaintiffs a large number of patients with exactly the same complaints as yours. Because this would spread across many states, you’d probably have to do this in a Federal court. BUT even if the computerized reporting system was created by a Federal or state law and run out of a central governmental database, unless there is a specific statute (State or Federal) permitting people to sue it for this kind of case, you cannot sue the government--even if the individual pharmacies try to pass the buck by saying “don’t blame us, blame the reporting system.”
Hope you can find a class-action litigation attorney who can find a workaround or specific statute that would allow you to sue. But don’t hold your breath. Your best recourse is the “court of public opinion,” relentlessly and loudly shaming those who equate cancer patients (especially advanced ones) with drug-seeking lowlifes. And it needs to be pointed out that the current heroin-addiction epidemic is directly due in very large part to overreaction by clueless officials (and medical society brass) trying to combat the abuse of prescription opioids.
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Mags the two drugs are not in the same class of drugs and don't hit the same receptors. But are bodies are all different in response to drugs. Tylenol and NSAIDS caused severe elevation of BP for me. A bit odd, but it is what it is. Sure wish I could remember about buprenex.
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Haven't revisited this thread in a long time. Now revisiting b/c a member is having trouble getting her medication.
Since last visit. I have turned on Tramadol. I think it should be taken off the market. I believe it to be a dangerous drug. It's schedule has been changed to the same level as the opioids. Maybe I'will write why it's such a bad drug, but not tonight
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Sas
Oh my god!!!! I'm so overwhelmed. Can't believe this page I just read!!!! Of course, I don't completely understand it all, but I get the jist of it. I never used pain mediation other than ibuprofen at times until I had my mascectomy. When I became somewhat coherent after the anesthesia wore off, they gave me Percocet. I threw up, and did not like the way it made me feel. I HATED it!!!!! Well, when I got home, I asked my PS, who was in charge of my meds to give me something much less potent. I don't know how pain meds are classified, only that oxycodone, Percocet, and Vicodin are much stronger than tramadol. Well, my PS prescribed Valium as well, for a muscle relaxer. These two meds somehow work together, not sure how. Well, I still have breast pain, mostly in the mornings due to this pain in the ass tissue expander I still have in my left. Well due to radiation, I had to wait six months to do the exchange. That God it's next month. I take a tramadol most mornings, and go back to sleep for a few hours. It takes the edge off. Now after my exchange with the implant, and reconstruction to my right breast, I know I'll have to heal from that surgery, so I was planning to take the tramadol, and Valium until I didn't need it anymore. I hope and pray I'll never be one of these people in chronic pain. My mom had fibromyalgia, and hurts constantly. She has been on vicadin for years. In the next few months, she's going to have to make a choice between ambien for sleep, or any prescription pain meds. Can't be on both as she has for many years.
Sas, when you feel like it, I would like to hear what you have to say about tramadol. Now, I'm worried about taking it. Also, what do you think of other pain meds in general. My brother's best friend had severe chronic pain, and died in his sleep. My brother found him. Dead at the age of 47, leaving 2 young daughters behind. Come to find out, he was getting pain meds off the market, he already had asthma, so overtime he paid the price. This was in 2015. My brother never quite got over it. Well, a year ago, my brother confessed to my mom and I he got hooked on aderol. He would sniff it through his nose!!!! Apparently, he has stopped, and never touched it again. Hmmm, will never know. First of all, I don't even know what aderol is, and why are these type of drugs snorted through the nose? When it comes to drugs, there is so much I don't know. I just know I take my meds as prescribed, and would never abuse it. Sorry about the long rant. I appreciate this info, and want to hear your honest thoughts about this. Thanks Sas. Now, I'm finally going to bed. -
Jay I will link to another thread, that I talk about Pain meds and other things.
Adderal is a drug for ADD/ADHD, it's an amphetamine. Lay term speed. For those that it is correctly prescribed, it modifies brain activity. It is also a drug of abuse --meaning taken either without prescription, or taken by the patient in a different manner than it was prescribed. Snorting it is not a form prescribed. Sorry about your brother.
I'll bring back the link. The first page or so I talk about pain and different drugs. My opinion about Tramadol I think is in the last page or so. Hopefully, I transferred it
This is the link to the first page. Wander through and see what you can use. The last page at this point in time was talking about neurotransmitter stuff. Tramadol affects serotonin. I was only going for the link to pge one, but guessing I was one a thingy about Tramadol. Totally disrespect the drug, It should be taken off the market.
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