Neoadjuvant chemotherapy - Pros and Cons - Help please

melb44
melb44 Member Posts: 130

So reading through the message boards it seems most people have surgery and then chemotherapy. Based on my high mammaprint score my breast specialist is proposing neoadjuvant chemotherapy. He has two reasons 1 - to shrink the lump and make for a better lumpectomy option and 2 so we can determine whether the chemo protocol is working. His thought is that if it is shrinking the tumor than it is killing the cells that could be floating around in my body. If it isn't working then he would possibly change the protocol.

Those seem like to pretty good reasons to me but I am second guessing it since I see most of you all had the surgery first. Why is that? I am guessing there must be some cons to the neoadjuvant chemotherapy. What are they?

I have an appointment on tuesday to talk about my options and want to be prepared.

Thanks!

Comments

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited March 2015

    I did adjuvant chemo but my very good friend (dx'ed with TN breast cancer) did neoadjuvent.  I think you will find that many of the people who post received adjuvant chemo because it has been the common practice for a long time, with the exception of  patients with larger tumors that surgeons would like to be smaller for lumpectomy or to achieve clean margins.  Triple negative patients have received neoadjuvent chemo for a longer time period because there are not anti-hormonal and/or targeted therapies available to them so it is imperative to make sure the chemo is working - the only way to do this is to administer it prior to surgery.  You should also be seeing some Her2+ patients receiving neoadjuvent chemo due to the relatively new addition of Perjeta, which is a targeted therapy.  It is currently FDA approved for neoadjuvent use for early stage Her2+ tumors of 2cm or larger only.  The potential downside to neoadjuvent chemo is that you become too sick from chemo to have surgery in a timely fashion, but conversely, surgical complications can delay chemo too.  Have you had a consult with a medical oncologist yet?

  • ElaineTherese
    ElaineTherese Member Posts: 3,328
    edited March 2015

    melb44 -- I had neoadjuvant chemo for the same reasons your doctor suggested. Also, I was diagnosed with locally-advanced cancer (5 cm) that was aggressive (Grade 3) and seemed to have already invaded one lymph node. Also, I am HER2+ and one of the targeted therapies for HER2+ (Perjeta) has been approved for neoadjuvant chemo for locally-advanced cancer. By the end of chemo, my lump was gone and the MRI and PET scans could detect no active cancer. I did end up having a lumpectomy and ALND, and now I'm doing radiation.

    The pros of neoadjuvant? You can see whether or not your protocol works for your cancer. In some cases, you get Pathological Complete Response, which is generally a good sign for your future survival.

    The cons? No one likes to do chemo if they don't have to. Also, many women don't have a definitive stage until after surgery -- sometimes, surgery confirms the size and extent of someone's cancer (as determined by scans) and sometimes, it shows that the lump was bigger and that there is nodal involvement. If surgery reveals the latter, chemo may be indicated.

  • melb44
    melb44 Member Posts: 130
    edited March 2015

    SpecialK - No I have not had a consult with a medical oncologist yet. I have an appointment with the BS on Tuesday and then other appointments will be made from there. I am just trying to be prepared and get my list of questions together for the BS and then the others. I did find the neoadjuvant thread for the HER2+ group but I am HER2-


    Elaine - That is is great news that your neoadjuvant chemo worked so well. I am so glad to hear a good story. My BS is proposing chemo no matter what based on my mammaprint score.

    Thanks!

  • Meadow
    Meadow Member Posts: 2,007
    edited March 2015

    Hello Mel, sorry you are going thru this but you have certainly come to the right place for answers! I had neoadjuvant chemo, then surgery, then rads. This is the protocol for my type of cancer, Inflammatory BC. I am also triple negative. I did not mind being in the group that had chemo first. I was able to do my chemo, knowing that my cancer was being killed off, eliminated. Then when I did have surgery, my pathology showed the results....I had a clean pathology report after surgery, thank God. My tissue had the dead cancer cells, but no active cancer present. Then after a few weeks of recovery, I had radiation. As I said this is standard care for IBC, but IBC makes up only 1 to 4 % of all breast cancers. Maybe that is why you are only seeing where the sisterhood posts having surgery first then chemo, there just are not as many. But this was the norm for me and it felt right, was right. I would suggest try letting your team present the treatment for you, If you have confidence in them, then just relax and go with it,. They are after all the experts. There must be reasons why they want this for your treatment plan. Ask on Tuesday why they want this for you, and please keep us posted.

  • Meadow
    Meadow Member Posts: 2,007
    edited March 2015

    I also did like keeping my breasts just a bit longer, during chemo first, I knew I would have to give them up soon enough, and as SpecialK said, sometimes there are post surgery complications which might interfere with chemo. Chemo also lowers your immune system which can hinder healing, which is why you will wait several weeks after chemo ends before surgery.

  • wrmbrownie
    wrmbrownie Member Posts: 114
    edited March 2015


    I had it for the same reasons you listed. I liked having to do chemo first instead of having to worry about painful surgery scars or lymphedema while doing it. Also, my MO had me to Taxol first before A/C and those on here who have had surgery first do the opposite.

  • ambercatz
    ambercatz Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2015

    Hi, I was diagnosed with tnbc in 2013 and had neoadjuvant chemo. I had 4 lots of AC then 4 of Tax. After the first 2 treatments I had an ultrasound which showed the tumour had shrunk dramatically. This was very re-assuring and if I had had surgery first they would not have been sure that it was working. After the Tax the tumour could not be seen on US and I had a marker inserted before surgery. I had a lumpectomy and all lympth nodes removed as 2 had positive nodes. My path report showed a complete pathological response. As others have said having chemo first gives them the chance to change to a different type if one isn't working. If you have surgery first there's no way of knowing what is working.I also felt that seeing it was shrinking helped me through the down days of chemo and also helped me keep a positive attitude which I am sure helps as the mind is a powerful weapon. I hope all goes well for you.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited March 2015

    I'm doing neoadjuvent TCHP now. I'm HER2+, and my tumor size was 3cm, so I fell into the group that fit with Neoadjuvent + Perjeta.

    This is a relatively new protocol... only approved in 2013 by the FDA. I was diagnosed in Nov. 2014 and even then, some doctors were still referring to surgery first as the gold standard. This is because people have been doing that for years and there are many more long-term studies, etc.

    However, new treatments are being tested and implemented all the time, so it may depend on how conservative you or your doctor is... go with the tried and true or go with the newer treatments that show promise. Sometimes there is a very clear choice. Sometimes not. There are so many factors to consider.

    Your oncologists and surgeons will help narrow these down to the ones that fit your case, hopefully.

    I even got a 2nd Opinion and some of their recommendations over-lapped: that of neoadjuvent chemo... so that got settled, at least! And I ended up changing MOs to my 2nd Op doc since he seemed more up on the latest treatments (like Perjeta), which sounded good to me.

    Sorting out this stuff is not easy!!! But once you get a team of doctors in place, whom you like and trust, and a course of treatment determined, things will settle down a bit. Getting diagnosed and having to ramp up on all this stuff and sort through it all, that's very stressful. Good luck with sorting it out.

  • Trvler
    Trvler Member Posts: 3,159
    edited March 2015

    I am having it first as well. I saw 4 BS's (2 never mentioned doing it this way, third mentioned it as a maybe and the 4th (who will be my BS) said to do it. I was told it was a newer approach and becoming more common. We live in the Midwest and my husband mentioned this approach to his boss who is from the east coast and he said it is more common in that region of the country to do chemo first. My BS is from the east coast. His reasoning made sense to me. We'll see how it goes. I have only had one treatment so far.

  • knittingPT
    knittingPT Member Posts: 156
    edited April 2015

    You have probably already decided since this thread is from a little while ago. I just wanted to say that I did chemo first and was so glad that I did! I could feel my tumor shrinking and that gave me such a psychological boost when chemo got rough. It also gave me time to consider surgical options and calm down from the "I have cancer and am going to die" first reaction. I had 5 months of chemo to get used to the idea of cancer treatment and could casually read articles/step away when I got overwhelmed. In my case, I ended up being able to have a lumpectomy instead of mastectomy. My tumor got smaller by almost half (was about 6-7 cm to start). If I had had to decide immediately, I would have chosen bilateral mastectomy even though I now know that for my case it wouldn't have provided any risk reduction.

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