Natural progesterone cream

sounds good but I'd want to double-check that. Prior to br ca I was using natural progesterone cream, especially on my breast as welll as rotating applications around my body. I, too had read Dr. John Lee AND had been prescribed natural prog cream by a well-know gynecologist who had long since rejected the use of HRT after studying Dr' Lee's work. I am only 5% PR+, but his recommendation to me after my DX showing even 5% + was an unequivocal NO.

I would be interested in learning more about this. I haven't seen the oncologist yet. My ER 90% PR 5%.

I'll ask my doctor when I go in for my follow up. Hormones, pills or creams freak me out a little, especially with this disease.

I will also ask if there is a connection to my pathology values regarding my progesterone levels versus if I'm really low on progesterone.

I also think qour progesterone levels go Down. as we age, since it's manufactured by our ovaries. Just guessing

At bit of both, being low on progesterone is not a good thing. I've felt much better since I started using it-no menstrual migraines or PMS and prior to using I suffered from both in a big way, but I do believe having balanced hormonal levels may help protect me from a recurrence, that not having balanced levels, being estrogen dominant, may have contributed to me getting BC in the first place. I've done other stuff along these lines as well, cleaned up my diet, home and beauty products to avoid chemicals that act as xenoestrogens (not good things).

Labelle...what was your PR at diagnosis? Mine is in my signature block. I am having a hard time since stopping HRT cold turkey. I thought it was estrogen related but maybe not?

I'm pretty sure our MOs are not hormone experts. My endocrinologist was/is very concerned about how radiation will affect my thyroid levels and so I'll be seeing her more often for the next year or so, but the RO didn't have a clue when I asked him. Cancer doctors are not hormone doctors. Endocrinologists are our hormones doctors, though some use gynos to mess with their hormones-probably not good since gynos continue to prescribe HRT therapy even though we now it does increase our risk of getting BC.

My tumor's receptor status was highly PR+ and ER+ positive, but progesterone doesn't not feed BC. Positive means receptive to the effects of-estrogen tells cells, including cancer cells, to grow which is why we are frequently prescribed estrogen blockers. Progesterone does not tell cells to grow. We are not prescribed progesterone blockers when we have PR+ BC and those w PR- (not receptive to the good messages of our natural progesterone) cancer have a generally less favorable prognosis due to this. Whether you believe this or not is your choice, but it is what I believe based on my own research and consults w my endocrinologist and my orthopedist (who is all about biodentical hormones and certified/trained in the use of them).

Mucking around with hormone levels is exactly what using Tamoxifen or AI therapy is all about. I'm just mucking in another way, one that spares me the nasty side effects of either Tamoxifen or ALs. Of course it might not work, but Tamoxifen and AI therapy don't always work either. Not worried about reducing my treatment's effectiveness, since this is my treatment. After much research and soul searching I've declined the use of Tamoxifen. I know myself, I would spend all my time worrying about throwing a blood clot or making cancerous cells in my endrometrial lining- the stress, anxiety and worry would drive me crazy!

I've read literally 100s of books about BC since being diagnosed, logged god knows how many hours doing online research, reading and researching about the source of BC, the reasons we get it (theories primarily), of natural and traditional treatments, uplifting and not so uplifting stories of those who have been diagnosed with BC, even a couple of pretty funny books by BC survivors, and one thing that is common to almost all of the books/articles addressing treatment is the importance in believing in our own treatment plans-be they traditional or alternative.

I find it very disturbing on the alternative threads that some posters feel free to come along and shoot down anyone doing alternative or CAM therapies, and this seems to happen a lot on here. I wouldn't go to threads about traditional hormone therapy and chemo and remind those who have chosen that route that they are putting poisons and/or cancer causing substances in their bodies and mucking around with their hormones in hopes of a cure that is by no means guaranteed.

I have not followed purely alternative cures. I had surgery to remove a 7mm tumor, they took almost 1/4 of my C cup breast because they thought I had DCIS around the tumor. Nope, final pathology showed no DCIS-can I now have that big hunk of my breast back? NO. Thank you almighty and all knowing surgeon.

My RO said radiation would be like a sunburn, down playing any side effects about heart/lung damage. My breast became so inflamed I could not wear clothes for 2 weeks, developed cellulitis (a bacterial skin infection) due to RADs. Because an undetected seroma became walled off due to RADs and open wounds from cellulitis allowed bacteria to form under the skin, I had have emergency surgery on my breast to drain this big mess - yes another large scar. Thank you RO for being so honest and knowledgeable about the effects of radiation. Heart/lung damage, I guess time will tell.

So when my OC says take Tamoxifen, it won't hurt you, I'm going "yeah, right." She also told me people "like you" don't get blood clots. I've yet to figure out why I would be immune, LOL!

So yeah, I've looked around and chosen to do the rest of this shitty "journey" differently. A little respect for the treatment plans of those who have chosen an alternative path would be refreshing and given this is the alternative board, not too much to ask for IMO.

And I don't think triple negative BC would respond to any hormone therapy, traditional like tamoxifen or AIs or alternative/biodentical. I've not done much research on that because triple negative is not what I'm dealing w but from what I have read, triple negative is a totally different animal-not responsive to hormones and those with it are not generally offered Tamox or AI therapy for that reason.

The studies that show use of progesterone increases BC all use artificial progesterones/progestin. Artificial progesterone is not the same as natural progesterone. Only natural progesterone is prescribed to women trying to get pregnant or to prevent miscarriage. Man made progesterones cause birth defects and would never be prescribed in these circumstances. They are obviously not the same as and don't work the same. It is estrogen (mostly estrone) not progesterone, that is found in and made from the urine of pregnant horses. In reg HRT therapy artificial/chemical progesterone/progestin is sometimes added, raising the risk of breast cancer greatly, but this is not the same as biodentical progesterone (something so safe it is given to pregnant women and women trying to get pregnant) .

And yes, I definitely oversimplified how I (and plenty of doctors/researchers) believe progesterone is protective in terms of breast cancer, but I was already on my way to writing a novel length post! It is definitely more complicated than "estorgen: bad " (not true, if it were 25 year olds would get more BC than older women) and "progesterone:good." Anyone interested needs to research this topic themselves to make good choices for themselves. Dr. Lee's books would be a good place to start IMO.

As I wrote I really have not looked closely at triple negative breast cancer, but from what I've seen these women are not generally offered Tamoxifen or AI therapy, seems to be primarily for those who are ER+.

"There's already speculation about vitamin D (actually a hormone) and parathyroid playing a role. I don't think it's as simple as ER and PR

only. "

Neither do I. My vitamin D levels were found to be super low about a year prior to my diagnosis (who knows for how long, because my vitamin D wasn't tested for before that). I have also have Hashimotos (hypothyroid) and believe not just parathyroid but also regular old thyroid disorders play a role when it comes to BC. I was diagnosed with Hashimotos about 4 yr before BC and it took about 3 years to get my thyroid levels stable-hence my close relationship w an endo! My mother was diagnosed w hyperthyroid about 3 years before she got BC and my endo says these are just different sides of the same coin, thyroid disease.

Are these related to my BC? Oh, I definitely think so. While I'm using progesterone cream, I believe keeping my thyroid levels good and my vitamin D levels high are just as or maybe even more important in my efforts to prevent a recurrence of BC.

I think it's the use of estroil vs. estrone (types of estrogens) in the HRT therapy in those European studies that makes a difference. Estrogen is not just one substance but a whole group of hormones. Some believe there are good estrogens and bad estrogens. I think it is a question of balance.

I've read some of those studies and they are interesting to think about, but while I'm comfortable using natural progesterone cream (there are lots of small studies showing its protective effects re: BC) I think I'd be too scared of estrogen to try it after a BC diagnosis, even if I needed it (which I don't-being peri-menopausal I have plenty) but it would be wonderful if some estrogens were found to be safe even after BC diagnosis as many women do suffer horribly due to lack of any estrogen.

Links discussing the role natural progesterone may play in helping prevent reccurance of er+/pr+ BC per recent lab findings.

Rather reminiscent of what Dr. Lee and other were telling us years ago-natural progesterone tells cells to stop dividing. Hopefully, this will be followed up on, although since no one will make a ton of money by adding this to our treatments, maybe not. Still, interesting reading IMO.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jul/08/bre..

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/07/08...

http://www.medicaldaily.com/adding-progesterone-br...

"The results showed when the PR is activated it redirects the ER to different DNA regions, in which a different set of genes works to slow cell growth. And given the number of patients with HR-positive cancer (it's possible to have HR receptor-negative cancer) these findings suggest a progesterone-type treatment could go on to benefit around half of breast cancer patients.

Though it's too early to translate these lab findings to humans, Dr. Jason Carroll, senior study author and principal investigator at the Carroll Lab Cambridge Research Institute in the UK, told MNT it's enough to at least start thinking about it.

"Crucially, it provides a strong case for a clinical trial to investigate the potential benefit of adding progesterone to drugs that target the [ER], which could improve treatment for the majority of hormone-driven breast cancers," Carroll said. "We've used cutting-edge technology to tease out the crucial role that progesterone receptors play in breast cancer — a mystery that has baffled scientists for many years."

My mother took tamoxifen and progressed to stage IV within a few years of her diagnosis. There in nothing known that will prevent all recurrences all of the time. The fact that people progress while using Tamoxifen or progesterone cream or drinking milk, or whatever does not show that these substances cause recurrences, only that they don't prevent recurrence 100% of the time. We can only wish for something like that.