Radioactive Injection into Nipple NOT TERRIBLE

Hi everyone - had this torture done yesterday and was not happy with the radiologist.  He came in and said, "whatever you have heard, this does not hurt".  Well - it hurt like HELL.  I was very upset that he set me up for that.  I would have rather him tell me that this will hurt, but only for about 15 seconds.  Afterwards, my MIL said to him, "you must have gone to glamour school and learn how to prepare patients for this" he replied that if patients expect little pain, then they will have little pain.  To that I replied, "bullsh$!t!!!"  That got everyone laughing.  :-)

Bottom line....be prepared for the worst and be thankful for the best.

Akitagirl

I was told my core biopsy would feel like a bee sting-that it did and more! Because I realize that my pain threshold is less especially when I am nervous, I knew to ask for Ativan. I still felt pain when given the dye injections, I just really didn't care or get upset. It was so different being relaxed that I will never have a procedure done again without Ativan if I can truthfully judge that I may need some help. I wonder if they give guys anything if they need a few needles injected in their scrotum?

I can't stay away from this thread!!!! 

There are many modern surgeons and hospitals who provide a painless procedure.  I urge those who have had a painful experience to complain loudly and as long as it takes....it may not help you but it will help others in the future,for sure.  And for those who are scheduling this procedure, advocate for yourself as appropriate.

MsP

Ariom - I absolutely agree with you... some of the things I read on BCO left me stunned and anxious and afraid and positive I was going to have the worst experience of my life, during the most vulnerable period of my life. Thank God that part is over.

~ ~ ~ 

That said, I eventually learned that BCO was a place where women came to share their experiences.... the good, the bad, and the ugly.

What was difficult to read, though, was the post that insisted to everyone - including impressionable newbies - that "this procedure" or "that procedure" is definitely torture, barbaric, etc.... NOT simply "Here is what I felt when I had this done."

I also eventually learned that there can be no comparisons when it comes to BC. My experience is not your experience. 

We may have exactly the same dx, procedures, treatments, surgeries.... and each of our experiences will differ. None of us is right or wrong.

But I think it's important for those starting out to realize that no one can predict what you are going to feel. Seriously - NO ONE.

It's like the Aromatase Inhibitor threads... most of the stories you read are horror stories - mine included! Yet there are hundreds of thousands of women taking these drugs with extremely minor or no side effects. I always make it a point to include that when I post about my incredibly bad experiences. 

I would never minimize the pain that a woman experiences when getting that radioactive isotope injection in the breast. If you say it was the worst pain you ever experienced, I believe you! (And I'm so sorry.... )

By the same token, I would hope that those who had a different experience  are not made to feel like they are denying another's pain, or even suggesting that another person is exaggerating. 

There's room for all opinions, experiences, and realities here.

In my opinion, one cannot compare this procedure to the varied side effects, pain and discomfort that are brought on by surgery, chemo, radiation,  and hormone therapy.  For those treatments, there are no current alternatives.  Some people heal faster than others from surgery and experience different levels of pain with the same surgery.  We all know from the chemo, radiation,  and hormone threads that there are varied responses to the same drugs.   I am and always will encourage a newbie to NOT assume they will have the side effects of these procedures.  But.....for this procedure, there is a painless way to administer it, and many surgeons and institutions are doing it the painless way.  Please see the article below as one example.  When "newbies" have this knowledge they are better able to influence their medical community to these advancements and increase significantly the chance that they will have a "painless" experience. This isn't about scaring people....it is about acknowledging that this is a painful procedure for many and unnecessarily so.

http://wp.vcu.edu/masseynews/2013/08/22/massey-surgeon-strives-to-reduce-pain-and-discomfort-in-breast-cancer-patients/

MsP

Another link to research which confirms what Moonflowr states.... that more time can be required in the OR between injection and incision.  But the conclusion still suggests that performing the procedure under GA is preferable. 

And I've seen no research that a surgeon failed to complete the surgery because of elongated time frames to isolate the SN.  Or that the extra time that might be needed was a compelling reason to continue to do the injection pre-surgery. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1245/s10434-009-0537-y

And yet another link that suggests that the pre-surgical injection should include lidocaine (mine didn't) and that this should be standard of care...instead of just the topical lidocaine preparation, EMLA.    http://www.medpagetoday.com/HematologyOncology/BreastCancer/15409

There is just no excuse for my hospital to have used a procedure that doesn't include anesthesia of some type...either lidocaine injection, lidocaine preparation with the injectable material,  or general anesthesia,  and I am convinced that my hospital isn't the only one out there who continues to inject pre-surgery without regard to the patient's comfort.

This isn't new science, either.  I wish I had known this before I had my procedure.

MsP

this is the same procedure, ariom.  It is absolutely possible to do this under general anesthesia before the lx or mx and lymph biopsy.  I had 4 nipple injections and never once had to massage my breasts nor were there any scans done to check anything...just up to the operating room.   And it wasn't done hours before surgery, either.  this procedure varies significantly between surgeons and hospitals and cancer centers and probably countries.   I know I am a pest about this...just am strongly motivated to see this procedure standardized and painless.  There are multiple hospitals in my community, not all of which take my insurance.  If I have a local recurrence in my other breast, I will have to pay out of network to have my surgery at one of the many other hospitals in my area that do this under general.  I know this because my surgeon practices at these hospitals and prefers the ones that provide his patients with a painless lymphscinotgraphy.  He and other breast surgeons have been trying to change this without success.  I just can't keep quiet about this issue.  If all our medical communities adopted modern, painless techniques, we wouldn't need a thread to share our experiences!

MsP

The day of my BMX, I checked in at 8 a.m. for my 1 p.m. surgery. I walked down to Radiology at 9 a.m. to get my Radioactive Isotope Injections. As I got up to leave, the Tech told me to keep massaging the breast to help the material spread throughout the lymph nodes.

From there I walked back up to Pre-Op, for the never-ending parade of medical personnel lined up, either  wanting something from me (information, vitals, etc) or wanting to give me something (gown, IV, etc.) Seriously, there was actually a LINE of people waiting to get to me. I felt so popular!

Then I remembered the Tech's advice. I started massaging my left breast like there was no tomorrow. 

I don't know how long it took, but I suddenly realized that my Pre-Op cubicle was at the very end of the room, and my curtains were open. The ENTIRE ROOM - staff and patients -  could see me squeezing my left boob!!!

I can only hope they thought it was some sort of self-calming technique..... 

At least my girlfriend and I got a good laugh out of it... (she and DH took turns entertaining me until it was time for the OR.)

~ ~ ~ 

(No scans for me, either. Just the shot in the morning, and surgery in the afternoon.)

I had the SNB and it was the most painful experience in my life.  I was given numbing cream to put on ahead of time.  It didn't help one bit. It was barbaric. I would never ever have it done again and I told the doctor.  If some women can have no pain, then there isn't any reason why any women should experience the horrible pain.  I had a woman doctor there telling the young male what to do. "Go this way, go that way".  Maybe he was an intern.  I had four needles.
The first one was the worst because it lasted so long but the others were just as painful.  I can't believe this goes on in this day and age.  Talk about your War on Women. 

When I got my injection before surgery, I was told they could put something numbing in it (lidocaine?).  I cannot remember why they did not do it - I only remember the fact that they didn't. Because there were two people in the room at the time (I went down to the bowels of the hospital to nuclear medicine, and the nurse who escorted me, as well as the person giving the injection, were both there. It hurt.  Of course. But it is a very minor thing when compared to the whole of our situations.  And, I can't imagine how a numbing agent injected with the shot would really help with the pain of the shot.  Perhaps, for some, they can do a topical numbing agent, like the dentist does?  I don't know. But I do remember the technician (or doctor, or whatever he was) saying that it's better not to have it anyway - and that it actually can make it hurt more because it's just all that much more volume they have to inject. That made sense to me. At any rate - it was not a big deal.  I'm glad I wasn't researching and worrying ahead of time.  It had to be done anyway. It wouldn't be made better by knowing and worrying instead of just jumping in at doing.  I hated it when an endodontist had to show me pics and explain in detail about my root canal.  I don't want to think of the specifics. He said he was required to explain.  I tried to just ignore him and nod my head. The more I know about the body parts and how the process is (the injection in my breast, the surgery, the root canal) - the more I have a chance to obsess about it.  I like to be ignorant. 

That said, since you want to know...I think I had more than one injection, but it was such a small blip that I am not sure.  It hurt, but no more than numbing shots in my mouth.  I knew I just had to breathe and tough it out for a minute or two.  That said - my injection was NOT in my nipple.  That must make a big difference. 

I did have to wait, but maybe only for a half hour. I did not massage anything.  I did bleed a lot.  I was embarrassed because I got back to a holding room and family was there. My sister immediately said "Well, I guess they did something because you're bleeding."   I was bleeding through my gown. It was an odd comment, and thanks for bringing everyone's attention to it.  I think she was just nervous too.  No one knowing what to say really.

I had the numbing cream but it still hurt. Only hurt a few seconds, but it did hurt. I cannot say if the cream helped, lord, if it did, I really feel for somebody having it without the cream.

I used the numbing cream, slathered it on that breast and covered w/ saran wrap. Also, I had mine done the day of surgery. It was done in pre-op and the anestesiologist had already come by. I told him I was SCARED of this more than anything else. He said don't let them do it till I come back. He went and got something and put it in my IV. I do not remember anything about the actual procedure. I LOVE that man!

Mine used both, dye before radioactive during. Some have to go the day before for the dye.

I will also add to this threadthat I was terrified about the injections based on posts I read, almost more scared than for my surgery! I asked about numbing or being put out. I was told numbing cream was not used because it can affect the tracer. The radiology department told me it would be like 4 little bee stings on each breast. I am happy to report that it was very quick and virtually painless for me. Easier than the lidocaine for my biopsy. So each person is different and perhaps each technician also.

I still suggest asking for Ativan beforehand. It is very obvious through all these responses that everyone has a different experience. If you happen to be one of the women who will experience pain with this procedure- it's already too late. I asked for lidocaine but it was explained to me that it would be like having twice as many injections. I asked my surgeon beforehand for something to calm me because I tend to work myself up with this type of procedure.she gave it to me no problem and after hearing I wouldn't be getting the lidocaine (which made sense) I put the Ativan under my tongue and was allowed to wait a few minutes. It kicked in quickly and by the time I had the injections (which my husband could not watch) I didn't care! I didn't perceive pain and was very comfortable in my zen euphoria! I don't understand why Ativan isn't used more to make the numerous uncomfortable/painful procedures more humane. Please ask your surgeons about this if you are scheduled to have this done before surgery