Types of mastecomy if I don't want to have reconstruction

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  • plover
    plover Member Posts: 15
    edited September 2014

    Lilith, I had the nipple and skin sparing mx. Due to my AA size, my BS didn't need to trim off excess skin. She made the cut under my breast along the contour. She intended to do SNB from that cut, however my nodes are too deep under the armpit and she couldn't reach the nodes. So she had to make a separate cut under my armpit for SNB, otherwise, she will have to extend the cut under the breast all the way up to the armpit. Her approach has worked out really well for me because the scar doesn't go through the center of the chest and I still have my nipple. It may worth a trip to go to Mayo and have a 2nd opinion there. My BS is Dr. Degnim. 

    2nd, unless the mx is preventative, SNB is necessary. If nodes are involved, one may need whole breast radiation or axillary lymph node dissection, depending on the numbers involved and on patient's choice. 

    Good luck!

  • Lilith08
    Lilith08 Member Posts: 163
    edited September 2014

    plover, thanks for the info. And others, thanks for the support.

    I'm actually feeling a lot better about things this week. I put my big-girls pants on and made a couple of calls on Tuesday. I spoke to the nurse at my doctor's office (very sweet and understanding woman!) and explained that I felt I wasn't being understood. She spoke to the doctor, who called me on Wednesday morning. I think we may still be able to work together and that it may have been a matter of something "lost in translation." Speaking to the nurse made a difference, though, because she finally understands that I really, truly have no plans to change my mind about reconstruction. That's a big step forward.

    The second thing I did was to make an appointment for a 2nd opinion, which will happen on Monday. My BS was glad to hear about that, too, which made it all the better.

    My MX is preventive, that's why the SNB came as a surprise to me. BS says I don't have to do it, it's just her recommendation. I'll see what the 2nd doctor thinks. I may also opt for doing only one arm--it may not make sense, as hidden cancer could occur on either side, I know, but I've had this odd feeling on my left side for this entire year. I've mentioned it during several appts and was told the armpit showed up clear in my MRI. But there's a nagging feeling that my armpit knows something that we don't :-)  So, I might decide to take my chance and check that one. I'm really afraid to do both arms as a preventive measure.

    But the good news today is that being brave this week has put me in a much better frame of mind. Happy Thursday, Y'All!

  • Ariom
    Ariom Member Posts: 6,197
    edited September 2014

    Good for you Lilith! That sounds like a plan..I wish you all the very best.

  • plover
    plover Member Posts: 15
    edited September 2014

    Lilith08, I would seriously consider not to do SNB in your case. Here is why:

    I only had 2 nodes taken out (both clear) from my left armpit, the scar for the SNB is the smallest compared to the other scars I got from MX, yet I suffered most pain/discomfort from the armpit around the SNB scar. For 2 wks, it was painful to walk w/ my arm by my side and I had to pop it up while walking. The skin was just so irritable, like sandpaper grinding on me against cloth or my body. There is also a big bump formed underneath my scar, and cording between my armpit and chest. Now I am almost 5 wks out, there is still some swelling in my pec near my SNB scar.

    2ndly, even with only very few nodes taken out, the risk of lymphedema is there and persists in one's lifetime. I have to take many precautions, such as not shaving my armpit w/ a razor and not going into a hot tub or sauna. 

    I think a sensible plan would be to make SNB contingent on the findings of MX. If cancer cells are present in the tissue excised from MX, then have SNB to make sure that they haven't spread. If not, you avoid a painful, unnecessary procedure.

  • Lilith08
    Lilith08 Member Posts: 163
    edited September 2014

    plover, the only problem with that, as I've read and has been explained to me is this: the only way to find the sentinel nodes is to inject dye into the breast tissue. The dye rushes first to the sentinels--the ones on guard duty, quite literally. After the breast tissue is removed, as in MX, there is no way to get that dye to the nodes. Should an "occult" or hidden cancer be detected in the pathology (up to a week after surgery), all lymph nodes would have to be removed. It's a tough call, I think. Risk lymphedema and find out you didn't need to risk it, or don't take the risk and be almost guaranteed to get it if all nodes have to be removed. I still can't decide. But I really don't want to do it in both arms, for sure!

  • Ariom
    Ariom Member Posts: 6,197
    edited September 2014

    Lilith, that is correct, if only it was that simple and the SNB could be done, after the Mx.

    If I were you, I'd be asking if there is any way you can have the tracer injected before the surgery, to identify the Sentinel Node and then during surgery the dye can be injected, but the nodes left intact. After the surgery, when your tissue is examined by the Pathologist, the decision can be made about removing any nodes. This was ground breaking when Angelina had her BMX. I have no idea if it is mainstream now, but since the blue dye hangs around for at least several days after being administered, it sounds like a win, win, if your Surgeon is willing to do it. I wish it had been available when I had my Umx.

    I posted earlier in this thread about my experience and I have  to say that now, in retrospect, I would still have gone ahead with having the SNB done with my UMX, even though there is a small possibility of LE.  I also experienced discomfort, as reported by Plover, under my arm, from that part of the surgery, but had there been any invasive component, after my final Pathology report, I would have been devastated to lose a whole level of nodes or forbid, have to have a full Axillary clearance.

    There are many weird sensations that come with this type of surgery, but I don't know if all can be attributed to the SNB. My Surgeon explained, that most, like the zinging, burning and zapping, come from the regeneration of nerves that were cut during the surgery. I am not certain just how much difference there would be, in sensation, if a SNB isn't done at the time.

    Like Plover, I had cording too, but mine was like a snaking tree branch, that came from where my nipple had been all the way down my chest and abdomen and under my ribs. That was Dx as Mondors disease and is caused by trauma to the breast. It resolved itself a few months down the track. One of the branches actually snapped when I turned over in bed one night.

    My Mother had BC and had a radical Mx in '96, there was no such thing as the SNB in those days, so she had a full Axillary clearance, only to find she had no affected nodes. Although that news was sensational to receive, she did have LE for the rest of her life and constant pain, from the procedure.

    I am now 21 months out from my Umx and SNB and I am still completely numb, under that arm, but thankfully the discomfort is long gone and that sensation is now just a part of me that I rarely notice.

    It is a highly emotive issue, to have, or not to have, this SNB, in conjunction with low risk, for invasion surgery. I wish you all the best for your final decision.

  • Lilith08
    Lilith08 Member Posts: 163
    edited September 2014

    Ariom, I'm glad you mentioned the "Angelina" procedure again. I read about it in one of these discussions this past week and it sounds like the best solution--but a Google search doesn't come up with any other references to it. Why is no one else doing it? Anyway, I will ask both doctors about it and see what comes of it.

  • Ariom
    Ariom Member Posts: 6,197
    edited September 2014

    Hi Lilith it was done at "The Pink Lotus" I am sure there will be info about it on their website. Good Luck with it.

    Edited to say: Kristy Funk was the Surgeon.

  • plover
    plover Member Posts: 15
    edited September 2014

    Lilith, now I see that it is tough decision, and my apology for my ignorance. I got radio active injection the day before the surgery. I read that BS can use either radio active or blue dye or both to locate the 1st SN. I hope that you will find the right solution for you.

  • Lilith08
    Lilith08 Member Posts: 163
    edited September 2014

    plover, no worries! I had read only about blue dye. Will ask about radioactive, too, and see if there's an advantage of one when dealing with prophylactic surgery. Thanks!

  • Ariom
    Ariom Member Posts: 6,197
    edited September 2014

    Lilith, the way it was explained to me was that the tracer, which has a low grade radioactive component is injected just before, or a day before the surgery. You are then scanned to locate the Sentinel Node. When you are in the OR, the surgeon uses a thing like a geiger counter to locate the Sentinel Node. They then inject the blue dye and massage it through and when the incision is made, the Sentinel Node is dyed blue, for identification. I have also read here,  as Plover said, it can be one or the other and that sometimes the  procedure is done totally in the OR.

  • Chloesmom
    Chloesmom Member Posts: 1,053
    edited November 2014

    wow so glad to find this forum. I have an appt w a PS that does DIEP flaps Monday. Planning a BMX and realized I'm looking at reconstruction because that's what all my friends who have had BC have had done. I am unique and don't have to do that just because...

    So here's the question. Do I just insist the BS does a straight line incision or does anyone bring in a PS too to make sure the job is smooth?

  • Ariom
    Ariom Member Posts: 6,197
    edited November 2014

    Hi Chloesmom! There are lots of us who have decided not to reconstruct, you can check out the "LIving Without Reconstruction" threads to see some of the stories and to meet the girls who are Flat and Fabulous. There is even a FaceBook page dedicated to ladies who a flat and proud of it!.

    It is really important that you make sure your BS is on the same page as you regarding your decision. There are a number of women here, who have been disappointed by the results after their surgery, because the surgeon has left skin because he just doesn't believe that we can be happy without breasts. I believe that is bordering on criminal behavior! Make sure there is no room for error on their part, having another surgery to repair their mistake, is absolutely wrong, but it can happen.

    I was very fortunate, in that my surgeon didn't so much as question my decision, but he did mention that if I changed my mind, the door wasn't closed. I am a Uni, but I did request a straight scar and a flat chest. My surgeon was the first person I saw when I woke after the surgery and he told me he had done as I asked and had checked it with a spirit level. When I said "Wow, really?" in my drugged state, he just laughed and said " No!". I did have a bit of a dog ear that I had removed later, but I didn't blame my surgeon for that, he did what I asked him and that was just an unfortunate , small problem that bothered me.

    It isn't unusual to have a Plastic surgeon to do the close after your Mx. I have heard of women here who have requested that and have been very pleased with the results.

    Don't be swayed by anyone else, or what they think you should do. I know I had some very strange looks, when I decided a Uni was fine with me. It is a little more challenging, when you have a natural breast to match up with, clothing wise, but I am so used to it now, it isn't an issue. I have never wavered for a moment about my decision, I knew recon would never be something I would do.

    Good luck with it! Let us know how you get on.

  • Lilith08
    Lilith08 Member Posts: 163
    edited November 2014

    Hi, Chloesmom,
    You most certainly don't have to do reconstruction just because that's what everyone else is doing! There is no single solution that fits every patient; you need to do what you feel is right for you, and not to meet the expectations of anyone else.
    I met with a PS who did only saline implants and TRAM or LAT flaps, and did also have a consult set up with a DIEP specialist. I just wanted to say that I had at least listened to my options. I ended up canceling the DIEP consult as I knew in my heart what I wanted.

    I had looked at photos on BreastFree.com to get an idea of what to expect. I identified one that looked perfect to me--really straight, horizontal incisions. My story is a little messy because my original BS and I did not see eye to eye; she really was not on board with my decision to forgo reconstruction. So when I showed her the "perfect" pictures she of course said she couldn't guarantee results like those. But she also said she would make a much shorter incision. I ended up changing surgeons and with the new doctor I did not show her any pictures. I just asked what she would do. She decided to make my incisions slanted downward from side to center, with the hope of minimizing any "dog ears" to the side. I did ask if she would try to make the incisions symmetrical, and while they're not mirror images, they at least line up, more or less. They're not as straight and perfect as I would have wanted, but I'm ok with it as I learned a few things along the way.

    One, you might not know what lies hidden underneath your breasts! I've been aware for many years that the ribs on my left side stick forward more than the right side. I was told I have a slight scoliosis, so I chalked it up to that. Well, where the left ribs protrude, the upper right ribs sink back. And so, with all the care in the world, the topography of my chest will never really be flat. I'm learning to appreciate the contours :)

    I lost my train of thought here and have already strayed from your original question anyway...Do you bring in a PS? I believe some people do. If your insurance will cover it and it makes you feel more comfortable about the outcome, why not? I do think my incisions might have benefited at least a little from having a PS. As I mentioned, they're not as straight as I had hoped. But apart from that, they are healing beautifully--really a very fine line, even at less than 6 weeks out. Results will vary, I'm sure, so I think it wouldn't hurt to ask about coordinating with a PS. That's something you'd need to talk to your BS about. He/she may work with only certain doctors, and you'd need to consult with one of them about doing "the closing".

    Do keep us posted!

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited November 2014

    Just a little addition, they NEVER take all the. NOdes, if they did your arm would be permanently swollen, but they take all they can see or that look dodgy, in my case it was an axillary clearance but that was only 14 nodes! SNB not an option for me as we knew there was cancer already.

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