What would you say is the root of your depression?

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  • SophiaMarie
    SophiaMarie Member Posts: 352
    edited August 2014

    Sodie, I hate taking meds.  But to got to where I didn't care anymore -  I didn't want to keep struggling through life anymore.  Especially if the cancer returns - I'd rather be as happy as I can be!   I do think it's great that you're going to try exercise first.  I hope it does it for you!  Unfortunately this depression (better than it was but still there - looking into inc doseage) can sap my energy big time and it becomes really hard to move.

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited August 2014

    Sodie - Exercising helps me a lot. Also check out this study http://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/effexor...

    I am on the lowest does of Effexor and it does a good job controlling the HF. I was at my lowest point during recon because I couldn't do the active things I normally do. All I did was sit around and think too much. It got better once I had the exchange and I could be active again. 

  • jill47
    jill47 Member Posts: 351
    edited August 2014

    Sodie, I'm glad you found this tread, there is a direct link between depression and pain (chronic can cause chronic pain and depression causes pain too).  I have horrible headaches from my depression, but also all the pain I've experienced over the last 2 years from 7 surgeries in 1 1/2 years  (bmx/recons [4]; frozen shoulder debridement [from the bmx/recon], gyno [2} D&C then a total hysterectomy/ooph) took their toll.  Don't be ashamed to talk to a psychiatrist, they listen and if you do have depression it will be treated correctly.  Don't delay seeking help, insomnia can be a symptom of depression. Let us know how you do.  Jill 

  • lionessdoe
    lionessdoe Member Posts: 780
    edited August 2014

    First, I'd like to point to an article that settled the answer to this question for me and made me feel 'normal'; whatever that means to each and everyone of us.

    http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/98/19/1356....

    Secondly, a huge trigger for me is when any one tells me I should feel this, or I shouldn't feel that. Whether it comes from a co-survivor or a friend, or co-worker, it never fails. Shuts me down emotionally, makes me feel isolated, disconnected, incapable of being embraced as I am in any given moment and just adds fuel to my depression and anxiety. I think for many of us a search on the late effects of cancer treatment would offer some sense of what is normal and what is not for each of us. I'd love to see a discussion forum on "late effects".

    Breast cancer has changed who I am as a person and not for the better, unless you are only counting the fund of knowledge I have accumulated about it. However, that balancing act is fraught with walking the wire, set to fall because knowledge isn't always power! Sometimes it is just fodder for more depression and anxiety.

    I remember the day when chemo passed my blood brain barrier and bathed my brain in tissue scarring toxicity. My brain has never been the same since. How hard is it to imagine that more than just cognition was damaged? How hard is it to imagine that mood regulation was permanently affected as well? That part of our brains that fuel Affect? Add in the fear of recurrence, the loss of mobility, feeling sexually unattractive, and that long list of things once enjoyed I can no longer participate in. Plus the lack of joy from experiences that always filled me with joy before cancer and just leave me numb now? And what about organized thinking? Prioritizing? All went out the window. I have waited 7 years for its return. I have to live with who I am today. It's not coming back!!!!

    What are we searching for really? What will make us feel like ourselves again? A pill? An oncologist who recognizes the emotional trauma and cognitive changes we have acquired? The physical damage? Our losses both great and small?

    I am searching for the creative side of my brain to be re-born somehow. The part of me that always soothed any crisis I have ever had to endure. But my hands will not hold steady a paintbrush to canvas, clay to sculpt, scissors to cut paper for collages, or physical endurance and strength to simply re-arrange the furniture and wall hangings. I'm not depressed, I am clinically exhausted from feigning that I am OK, that I am fine, and from searching for what will make me feel like me again.

    "Depression is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign that one has had to be too strong for too long."

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited August 2014

    I think seeing the bullet that may kill us is pretty traumatic. We have faced our own mortality and still are! As women, we are great in a crisis - lifting a car off our kid - but when it's all over we break down and cry. Well, with breast cancer, it's never all over. Oncs and scans and bloodwork, and mirrors that reflect flat chests with scars. Fear of recurrence, fear of it all happening to one of our kids. Heck the list goes on forever. We all deal differently, but I do know that if I didn't have chemical assisantance I would be locked up right now. I am the bread winner in the family and since diagnosis had to get my thyroid out, get a pacemaker and was off for 2 years on disability for my back, with NO job to return to!! Stress....oh, yah! Sometimes I think it would be a blessing to just let go.

  • lionessdoe
    lionessdoe Member Posts: 780
    edited August 2014

    First of all, no encouragement intended for crying out loud, but thank you for your honesty! 

    I have had life threatening adverse reactions to every family of anti-depressants there are and am therefore unable to take this blessed invention! You mentioned two other late effects of treatment, heart and thyroid. Don't know if your back is related but I have read a lot about what radiation and chemo can do to our spines and bones. 

    Your quote at the bottom of your post? I say that a lot to other people. One of my favorite quotes! 

    Instead of treating people who have these thoughts like Lepers that need to be locked up immediately and segregated from the rest of society, why can't we acknowledge that it is part of being human?? Any one who tells me they have never considered 'just letting go' is just not being honest as far as I am concerned. Saying it out loud instead of suppressing it (what we suppress, we obsess) does release some of the steam. Secrets keep us sick. Knowing what it would do to our loved ones keeps us keeping on. I am glad you have a remedy that helps with the depression. If you are well enough to go back to work, I hope you find employment that suits you. Have you tried your state's Rehabilitation Services? It's their job to assist people with disabilities to find work. Any illness is a disability!

  • lionessdoe
    lionessdoe Member Posts: 780
    edited August 2014

    GEEZ! You are from Ontario? Forget my suggestion about RS! What do they offer in Canada for assistance in finding employment? Educate me!

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited August 2014

    Strangely enough, none of my other medical issues had anything to do with any treatment! I was just being watched closer and things started to pop up. I actually had a double mast with no recon to reduce the strain on my neck and spine! How's that for dedication.

    I had to find a job on my own and at 56 it's been very hard. I can only find commission positions and that is nerve wracking. Our house is currently on the market (almost was bedridden again with my back!) and we have to move somewhere cheaper. Ain't life grand?

  • suzygirl
    suzygirl Member Posts: 22
    edited August 2014

    I searched for this forum to see if anyone else had experienced the weird kind of depression I first experienced a few months after starting anastrozole. It came on slowly-- I increasingly lacked motivation, soon I was thinking "what's the point of all this?" absolutely nothing seemed enjoyable and I began to wonder if I would ever feel joy again and I felt sad whenever I wasn't actively doing something. On the other hand, my self-esteem was fine, I didn't feel guilty about anything, I had no real trouble going about my life (one trudging foot in front of the other), including a fair amount of exercising. After about five weeks, I finally mentioned my low mood to my husband, and he remembered that the pharmacist had read a long list of side-effects from anastrozole (my only prescription medicine) and depression was right up there! About a week later, from one day to the next, my mood lifted (about the same time that hot flashes and night sweats started to decrease as well). No depression since. I talked to my oncologist and he suggested the depression might have been related "to the last of the estrogen in your body being depleted." He said I still had virtually no estrogen, but its probable my body has recalibrated so I feel like my self again. This is very hopeful to me (but I will still be on the outlook for depression in the future and will seek help if it persists). So for me, I truly think the root of my depression was hormonal (or chemical), and I hope so much it never comes back! I have read so many of your stories with sadness for all you've been through. I do hope that for some of you a spontaneous recalibration will end all the suffering. It can happen.

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited August 2014

    I have battled depression all my life and have been on some form of a chemical crutch for the past 25+ years. I have a chemical imbalance in my brain and am normally the happiest person I know. People are often surprised to find out the weight of some of my health issues because I seem so happy. Being happy doesn't get rid of depression. They are two different emotions and both can certainly live inside of you just like happiness and sadness. It's okay and normal to be sad at certain times, it's when you can't function; can't go to work, won't eat, or overeat, don't groom yourself, hibernate and pull away from family, etc. It is serious and affects not just us but others around us. It takes time to get used to the meds if you take any and a lot of women give up before their body gets used to the prescription. Your head doesn't stay "fuzzy" and you won't be dopey when you are stabilized. I don't even remember that I am on something until I don't break down during a crisis and then am glad my crutch is in place for me to react appropriately. If I suddenly cry at at TV commercial my DH and I look at each other and ask if one of my meds has run out! Living on the edge emotionally like that is not really living at all....it's just surviving. We deserve more than that and it is doable. But we have to try to fix ourselves, no one else will do it for us. We must be honest firstly with ourselves and then our spouse and doctors.

  • lionessdoe
    lionessdoe Member Posts: 780
    edited August 2014

    Barbe1958,

    Yea! I lost my house. Did my radiation on my lunch hour cuz they were lowering and lowering husband's hours. I had to keep working no matter what. Ended up in an apartment for the first time in 40 years. He eventually lost his job after working non stop for more than 40 years (aside from a few layoffs during previous recessions). Apartment living as opposed to homeownership to me is so drab and depressing. But can't knock the affordability especially when it comes to utilities. I miss my house so much, but truthfully 75% of what I miss, I can no longer do any more. It is what it is! Hope the market treats you fairly when your house sells!

  • placid44
    placid44 Member Posts: 497
    edited August 2014

    Spontaneous recalibration - I will hope for that! I am sluggish and apathetic...functioning fine in terms of daily activities...just not enjoying them. I think it is my very low estrogen levels post-chemo. (Onc just checked them.) i am 19 mos. post chemo, age 46.

  • lionessdoe
    lionessdoe Member Posts: 780
    edited August 2014

    Suzygirl,

    I absolutely agree on the hormonal component. In fact, in some nursing homes they sometimes give estrogen to men who are too aggressive to calm them down. Personally, I don't think we know a smidgen of what we need to know regarding hormones and their impact on mood and other mental health issues. I am pro med. Just not a safe candidate myself for antidepressants.

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited August 2014

    House would carry for about $800 while renting would be upwards of $1,300!!! We HAVE to sell and buy. Mine is one of only 6 houses for sale in my high-demand area and is the second lowest in price. I expect it to move quickly but am having trouble getting financed for the new place which is even cheaper because I am in commission sales at a new job!!! Right! My old job didn't wait for me to come off disability and hired someone else.

  • SophiaMarie
    SophiaMarie Member Posts: 352
    edited August 2014

    I realized what else is contributing to it.  I guess it does go along with the loss of control...  We are going to be losing our insurance that has been covering me at a nice recognized breast cancer center.  My affordable options will be local hospitals - where I know of many people who have died from their cancer.  I began treatment at one of them - but had to leave when I found myself telling my oncologist how to treat a deficiency I had - one that is connected to breast cancer.  I feel safe where I'm at, and well taken care of.  Even have one of the best plastic surgeons.  I should be happy that I was able to go through all of the active treatment there, and that the plastic surgeon was able to get me this far - and I am grateful, really.  But if it comes back....  It's just so unsettling - I don't know how I'm going to deal with it!

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited August 2014

    SophiaMarie, you HAVE the knowledge to empower you with any doctor you are passed on to. We have to empower ourselves with education of our body and our diseases, and you have done that. People die at the best hospitals in the world, and especially at cancer centres, all the time. If the deficiency was Vitamin D, that is still controversial and I wouldn't expect a doctor to be up on something until it is confirmed. Can you imagine if he gave people false hope? I think that is worse than bringing a new concept to the table with him yourself.

    We have to be our own advocates. To our doctors we are one of many patients, but to us our doctor is one. That is a hugely unbalanced relationship. We can't expect them to all care the same way we do. Good luck!

  • SophiaMarie
    SophiaMarie Member Posts: 352
    edited August 2014

    yeah... A friend just told me that I do so much research, I could work with any onc.  But you know what?  I'm tired.  If I have to pay for a dr I want to know he's more competent than I am!  For other reasons too, the local mo did not inspire confidence.  I know people die everywhere, but you have to feel that you're getting the best care possible.

  • SheChirple
    SheChirple Member Posts: 954
    edited August 2014


    SophiaMarie..............I actually came looking for this thread.  Your opening statement is what caught my eye. "Since active treatment has ended ...."

    I just started taking anti-depressants in April, while awaiting my last surgery.  The depression was finally clear to me that it was not going away.  No therapy.  Just Rx. 

    I was released today, by my plastic surgeon, after nearly 3 years of almost monthly visits.  I cried all the way from the appointment back to my office.  I couldn't figure out why. I had these conflicted feelings.  I should feel utter JOY that I have no evidence of disease (re: cancer free), I am done with reconstruction (I'm choosing not to have nipples), and only have to move forward with 7 more years of Tamoxifen.  So, why do I feel so empty, sad, lost?

    When I got back to my office, I spoke with my personal support.  A co-worker who is a few months ahead of me in her treatment, with just about the same course.  I explained to her how I was feeling and that I guess I was seeking validation of those feelings.

    Through a long talk, we came to the agreement that this beast of BC has dominated our lives, been our each and every day focus to recover.  That daily focus is just gone.  No more appointments.  Nothing to work towards.  No more surgeries.  No more visits with the PS, his staff, the nurses, the hospitals.  All of this effort for the last 3 years has been our lives.  That is suddenly gone, with a handshake and a "good luck".  There is a sort of mourning, I think.

    As I said, I'm conflicted.  I should feel JOY!  I should be thinking about putting this behind me.  But, I'm not.

     

    I hope this makes sense. 

  • macb04
    macb04 Member Posts: 1,433
    edited August 2014

    I have been depressed a lot, that is not to say that I am never happy. I have moments of happiness. Still things are flattened.  For me I have had a few A  HA moments of researching about insomnia, moodswings, depression, anxiety and Tamoxifen. 

    First I found  that magnesium deficiency is linked in a large amount of research to depression and anxiety. Then I found out that several drugs deplete magnesium  , such as many chemos, some antidepressants,   and TAMOXIFEN !!! Now I realize                          that I have several physical signs of Magnesium deficiency,  like I used to be woken up out of sleep with foot cramps. 

    Then I had another AHA moment when I realized that I can't sleep while using Tamoxifen unless I take L-tryptophan.  I have tried scores of other things to help me sleep without much success.  Then read that Tamoxifen is sometimes used in psychiatric research to deplete tryptophan.  

    Look it up about Tryptophan,  it is a precursor of serotonin, which is involved in depression and anxiety. Just look at a drug like Paxil,  which is an SSRI, which stands for a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. These neurotransmitters are crucial for health and well being. I have decided that these side effects are just ruining my quality of life. While Tamoxifen can decrease a risk of bc in my other breast by 30 - 50%, it can increase the risk of a second, more aggressive, nonhormone dependent metastasis by up to 400%. Yes, that is not a typo, I quoted 400% increased risk. That quote comes from a Dr Christopher Lee at  Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research from an article in 2012. A friend of mine is 34. Had bmx, chemo and rad, then tamoxifen.  Now I year out she has gone from a stage 2 to 4 and a new secondary aggressive nonhormone dependant cancer has crept all over her body.

    I have had enough. I quit tamoxifen yesterday. If other women do want to continue to take Tamoxifen,  I would still say look into the magnesium deficiency info. It is a nontoxic mineral that performs hundreds of functions in our bodies. You cannot overdose on it except by IV, or if you have kidney disease or bowel obstruction,  as excess is eliminated by your bowels. Read the book Magnesium Miracle if you want it all in one easy to digest, well written and well researched package.

    I don't think most doctors have a clue, no wonder we are all so miserable

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited August 2014

    What great info mac!!! I don't take Tamoxifen and can only imagine how bad I would be on with with all that as well as bone pain.

  • Lee7
    Lee7 Member Posts: 657
    edited August 2014

    hi,  reading through the thread and thought I'd mention that I read  that a square of dark chocolate will give you about 80 percent your daily value of magnesium.  And bananas are a good source with potassium.  I had the  leg and foot cramps problem too so I started eating foods with more magnesium and potassium and it helped.

    I do think the antihormonals wreck havoc on us in so many ways.  I'd like to be off all meds and find my life again. If that's even possible. 

  • SophiaMarie
    SophiaMarie Member Posts: 352
    edited August 2014

    as a note - I've been taking magnesium citrate every night.  And restless leg syndrome has started and depression worsened.

  • Bcky
    Bcky Member Posts: 167
    edited November 2017

    What is the root of my depression? Frankly.

    Going through the most terrifying experience of my life. Laying in bed many nights practicing dying. Telling myself that if I get cancer again and I die that dyeing will be just going to sleep. That it will be okay. I will be on morphine. Four of my BC group friends died from reccurrence. Each have been in my home when they were alive. I see them in my kitchen now. My walk in closet. Six surgeries in two years. Now I need two more major ones. Hearing that chemotherapist. Seeing her in my mind saying that she did not care how low my oncotype score was. That if I did not do chemo I was going to die from reccurence. Working and working and working to pay off the massive debt load I carry from two years of not working.Living with this invisible Beast called cancer that could come alive again. Rear it's ugly head and finally take my life. Looking in the mirror one boob sits higher than the other.My belly distended. I need a new knee. I stand all day at work. Being a licensed massage therapist and giving comfort to people when I am starved for relief myself. Doctor appointment after Doctor appointment after Doctor appointment when I am not working to prepare for my next two major surgeries. The sorrow of losing that beautiful athletic woman named Rebecca. Rebecca used to speedwalk miles and miles a week for decades. Rebecca limps now and is in chronic intense pain. Rebecca is now a clinically depressed. Overworked. Overweight. Greying. Lonely. MESS.



  • Brightness456
    Brightness456 Member Posts: 340
    edited November 2017

    Oh bcky, your post really spoke to me. I too am mourning who I used to be. I’ve been told by people whom I hope mean well that I’m lucky I only have BC and it’s stage 1 so it’s just a year of my life then I’ll be back to normal. But I know I’ll never be back to normal. I am forever changed by this ordeal.

    Truthfully, my chances of never getting this again are statistically better than many, but that doesn’t change my fear. It doesn’t comfort me because now I know what it feels like to be told I have BC. I know what it feels like to have surgery and to willingly put toxic chemo into my body and to look at my grandchildren and know that I may not get to see them grow up and experience so many moments of life.

    As I’ve stopped chemo (due to SEs) and get ready to start radiation, I worry and even dream about the tiny bits of cancer settling into various places in my body, waiting to grow and attack again. I know in my logical mind that most likely that is not happening, but my logical mind is not as great as my fear, so fear wins. Now that chemo is behind me, I’m going to turn my focus to settling my emotional fears. I want to embrace life while I have it. I still hope to live a long healthy happy life, but I’m going to start focusing more on immediate joy and less on long term goals. I suppose I’ll have to figure out a new balance in life.

    My heart goes out to those experiencing true depression in addition to this dx of BC. It’s not fair.

  • Bcky
    Bcky Member Posts: 167
    edited November 2017

    Brightness I have nothing to say but that I support you.

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