Advice on using ice water to prevent neuropathy
I'm starting carbo/taxol/avastin chemo next week. I had 3 rounds of dd taxol several years ago. I'm concerned about developing neuropathy (as most). I've heard a little about using ice water during the infusion and wondered more about that. The staff at the chemo center said its a little controversial because it might inhibit the drug from circulating properly or thoroughly. Any info would be helpful.
And any other things people found worked.
Comments
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I already posted something on the apr mx thread, but to add- I was advised that the most important thing is to keep the hands and feet warm and circulation at a maximum, as neuropathy is caused by the drug pooling some in the extremities. So circulation is key to getting it out! So exercise, slippers, gloves, foot and hand massage/self massage, warming oils, hot wax dips.... I was taught self massage techniques by a the massage therapist at my oncs office (i live in san francisco. it's like that here) you could look up or ask me about.
I don't know about this ice water thing but to me it sounds like a bad idea.
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I don't know, I'm thinking, cold=bad circulation. If DURING the treatment you keep your fingers and toes cold, then the chemo drug will not get there. Keeping them warm would facilitate the drug getting tot he nails, right? I think that is the reason the cold caps for preserving hair are used too...
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I believe you're right, Day. Cold during infusion has been studied, and shown to work in cold caps to prevent hair loss, sucking on popsicles or ice chips to help prevent mouth sores, and on hands or feet to reduce hand-foot syndrome (also called "palmar-plantar erythrodysesthesia").
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Hi, paxton ~ I did 4 rounds of Taxotere & Cytoxan in August-October of 2008, and many of us on the TC thread here used ice to save our nails because it prevents the chemo from getting to our nailbeds. For that, you can use either an ice pack or a package of frozen veggies, which is what I did, because it's maleable and seemed less messy after it had melted. And it was never questioned by any of our oncs or onc nurses, although my onc wasn't convinced it really did anything, but I thought so. But I would question if getting your hands and feet cold enough to prevent neuropathy might interfer with the drugs circulating properly.
What does help with neuropathy though is the vitamin supplement B6. And I'm sure you've been told or will be told that you need to drink massive amounts of water to wash out the chemo. Hopefully, that will also help prevent it from settling in those extremeties too long.
Good luck with your chemo! Deanna
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I know I sucked on ice chips the whole time during the treatment. No mouth sores yet - but then I'm only in the 6th day.
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Can you take a B Complex vitamin or should you just take B6? How much/often?
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Depends on how any given onc feels about supplements during chemo. Some are okay with it, others are against it. My onc is adamantly anti-supplements or vitamins of any kind, but is fine with me using the frozen gloves and slippers to avoid nail damage.
So these are both things that each person needs to sit down and have a detailed discussion about with their own onc.
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paxton ~ I've always taken B-Complex, but I added an additional B6 supplement because I felt I was especially low or needed more of it due to the chemo. I'm not 100% sure of the strength, but it was Whole Foods own brand, and the smallest available amount -- maybe 50mg? It made a noticeable difference in my neuropathy symptoms.
When I was finished with chemo, I used a similar amount (lowest mgs. available) of Biotin, another B vitamin, for hair regrowth, and that also seemed to make a huge difference. Deanna
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I put my hands and feet in dish pans of ice during Taxol Chemo infusion. I have had no neuropathy and no nail issues whatsoever. In fact, based on my experience, Chemo Nurses are now advising other Taxol patients to do the same.
I left socks on and put feet in and out of ice. Put a wash cloth over ice for hands/fingers and put them in and out during infusion.
IT IS WORTH THE INCONVENIENCE!
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I took acetyl carnitine, glutamine, b complex and iced my nails, all twenty, during DD taxol--12 weekly infusions. The first three supplements are for neuropathy and the icing is to keep your nails from falling off. I finished chemo nearly 8 weeks ago, no neuropathy, no nail issues.
The amounts for the supplements vary a bit. If you search the discussion boards using the supplement names above, you'll find the suggested amounts to take daily.
Claire in AZ
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Thanks for the advice on the supplements, Claire. I plan to follow your lead!! Thanks for the Michael J. Fox quote. I need it today.
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I used ice pack mittens and slippers during taxol treatment (I think they were elasto-gel brand). I had no issues with neuropathy. I had one toenail get slightly yellowed. My hospital stocked these, kept them in the freezer, and switched them out during treatment to make sure they were always cold. Not the most pleasant experience, but I really think they worked. I didn't suck on ice chips, and I did get mouth sores, so maybe there's something to it.
Best of luck!
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Good tip Maxine. I didn't know there was such an item as ice pack mittens and slippers! I haven't brought up the topic of ice with my cancer center yet but I will on my next visit. Did you do supplements too? Cartinine, Glutamine, and B-Complex? B6?
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I brought in frozen, reusable gel packs from Ace Hardware and put two foot sized ones on the floor for my bare feet to rest on and folded another two frozen gel packs over the toes of each foot during the hour or so Taxotere treatment. I also used frozen peas in ziplock bags to plunge each of my hands into up to the first joints. I would take my hands out every so often to check them, before putting them back in. They were quite pink up to those joints.
My hospital had told me quite a few women used peas on their hands. I just felt I needed something for my feet too.
The following day when I went back for my Neulasta shot I was asked it I had had any tingling in my feet and I could truthfully answer, no. The nurse seemed both surprised and pleased.
I plan to do the same thing each time, although I will put a towel down next time to try to conserve the freeze of the gel packs longer. They were still cold after an hour, but had certainly warmed a bit probably due to heat loss to the warmer floor.
I do know that when I was at Memorial Sloan Kettering recently I was told that it was running a study to see if icing nails helped.
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Denise-G wrote:
"In fact, based on my experience, Chemo Nurses are now advising other Taxol patients to do the same."
Can you tell us which hospital this was?
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