March 2014 Surgery

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  • KLJ
    KLJ Member Posts: 284
    edited May 2014

    JulieCC, just curious since our cancers were so much the same, did your Oncologist give you a choice about Tamoxifin or did he feel it was absolutely necessary? I saw my oncologist today and he said it was completely up to me and is giving me 4 weeks to decide. He said my chances of a reocurrance were just the same as the chances I would take with taking the hormone suppressor which can cause cancer and has many side effects. He said it was because by cancer was caught so early and was so small. The IDC was completely removed by the biopsy and none was found in the pathology after surgery and the DCIS was very tiny. So confusing! Really don't want to take the drugs and face the side effects if it isn't necessary!

  • sandra4611
    sandra4611 Member Posts: 2,913
    edited May 2014

    KLJ, I was also confused since I read many others with my diagnosis whose oncologists recommended tamoxifen. It's not that I wanted to take anything, but wanted to understand why my oncologist didn't feel it was warranted for me. Like you, all my cancer was removed in the BMX. Four nodes on each side were taken in the sentinel node biopsy and all were clear. Since I chose mastectomy instead of lumpectomy, I did not have to have radiation (HUGE relief) and of course no chemo was needed. My onco said it was impossible for me to have a recurrence of DCIS or develop IDC, and impossible for me to have LCIS or ILC because those can only grow in ducts and lobules. Since I don't have ducts and lobules anymore, there is 0% chance of recurrence of those. BUT, I could develop one of the other types of breast cancer in the miniscule amount of breast tissue that might still be there after the BMX. The chance is 1% - 2%. She said that tamoxifen can reduce the chance of recurrence significantly in many women, maybe even 50%. However there are side effects that have to be considered, one of which is leukemia. Even though she said it is small (5%) she had two patients with it at the time so that small percentage couldn't be dismissed. I have an aneurysm in the ascending aorta of my heart and also had a moderate brain stem stroke 16 months ago, so like any drug that is being considered for any of us, the doctor has to weight the pros and cons.

    The bottom line is that even if tamoxifen reduced my chance of recurrence 50%, that's 50% of 1%-2%, which brings it down to 1/2% to 1%. The small risk of leukemia or another more common but still serious side effect is higher than any benefit it could give me. So no hormone therapy for me. Makes sense.

  • KLJ
    KLJ Member Posts: 284
    edited May 2014

    Wow, thanks for your explanation Sandra! That is my feeling exactly. I have already had a heart ablation. I will take my chances with the 1% recurrence and not lose any sleep over it!

  • stfne
    stfne Member Posts: 70
    edited May 2014

    I will be sure to stop into June to offer some support. I may even join because my exchange may be in June. I mighty have had my last fill today. I'm at 580. the nurse had me make an appt with the ps next week instead of with her for a fill. This is the most pain I have been in for a while. I can hardly move my arms.

    I am excited to ger this over with but the thought of surgery makes my stomach turn. I was happy to hear from the NP that there will not be drains. Like Julie mentioned, my drain sights are still very sensitive and red.

    Linda, you look great! I love the wig!

    I probably need to be checking out the exchange board but won't be leaving this one either. This is home base and my favorite favorite.

  • Juliecc
    Juliecc Member Posts: 4,868
    edited May 2014

    Good question, KLJ!  I only saw my oncologist once so far.  The first words out of her mouth were, "because of your age, I recommend you do chemo."  I was surprised.  At that time, I didn't have my Oncotype Dx score yet and I told her I wanted to wait for that first.  When it came back as 12, she called me and said I didn't need chemo.  It seemed like Tamoxifen was just a given and she wrote the prescription.  I saw her PA last week to see how I was doing on it.  I will see the Onc again on June 12th.  I'll ask her how much I'm dropping my chances of metastasis.  I guess I feel reassured taking it.  My tumor was highly ER/PR positive.  If there were any stray cells, tamoxifen would hopefully wipe them out.  With a score of 12, and takingTamoxifen, my recurrence rate in 10 years is 8%.  I'm not sure what the number would be without the Tamoxifen.  Probably only 10%?  I think I got that number off cancermath or something.

  • Juliecc
    Juliecc Member Posts: 4,868
    edited May 2014

    Wow Stfne, that would be your third surgery in a little over 3 months. My PS likes to wait about 3 months after the last fill.  August 8 is my surgery day.

  • KLJ
    KLJ Member Posts: 284
    edited May 2014

    Julie, did they explain the side effects of Tamoxifen? He said he could write the script, I could go home and take it and I am the one that would have to suffer the side effects not him! He spent an hour explaining everything to me. Side effects including hot flashes, bone pain, mood swings, weight gain, and CANCER! I don't think it kills stray cells it suppresses the hormones. My tumor was 100% ER & PR but still the side effects outweigh what taking it would accomplish for me. I hope that made sense. LOL! So confusing. Every doctor seems to have a different opinion. I'm happy that mine is leaving the choice up to me and not just writing the script and telling me to take it. But with all that said, I am 10 years older than you and that could change everything when it comes to their percentages!

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited May 2014

    klj - Tamoxifen does not suppress hormones (estrogen), it blocks the estrogen receptors on breast cells. That is why it is given to premenopausal women who need circulating estrogen for heart and bone health. It allows estrogen to do the positive things it does for this age group while not allowing it to fuel growth of harmful cells. Post menopausal women are prescribed aromatase inhibitors, which suppress the conversion of androgen into estrogen by interfering with the enzyme aromatase.

  • Juliecc
    Juliecc Member Posts: 4,868
    edited May 2014

    Hi KLJ, it's my understanding that when the Tamoxifen blocks the estrogen receptors on a stray breast cancer cell, it can die off or stop growing.  I have a lot of reading to do still.  I think the risk of uterine cancer is 1-2%.  

  • Frostecat
    Frostecat Member Posts: 447
    edited May 2014

    My BC is similar, and my MO said that my Oncotype score of 7 means including Tamoxifen.  Meaning I have about a 6% chance or recurrence.  He said without Tamoxifen I would be at about 13%.  He explained to me the side effects, hot flashes, mood swings (he looked at my husband on that one), that it is actually good for your bones, and there is a possibility of blood clot.  He said that the blood clot almost always only occurs in those with some type of preexisting condition that would warrant that.

    I have been taking it since the first of the month, and I do have hot flashes, not all the time, but I did anyways before this.  The only thing I have noticed on me, and I don't know if it is from the meds or from just not moving too much for weeks, is a sort of pain in my legs, not necessarily bone pain.  Like if I'm sitting in a car too long I want to stop and get out and stretch, that kind of pain. My husband hasn't complained about mood swings yet (I'll let him be the determining factor on that one).  My MO also stated that if I missed a pill here or there it wasn't a big deal, it isn't like a birth control pill or anything.  

    I guess I thought for an additional 7% that I would take it.  Reading up on this, it amazes me how many women start this and never finish their 5 years.

    I assumed recurrence or cancer anywhere in the body, not necessarily the breast.  Am I wrong? 

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited May 2014

    Oncotype Dx scores do assume that you will take hormonal therapy.  If you do not then your score, and chemo decision, is meaningless.

    frostecat - yes, blocking the estrogen receptor on a breast cell, to prevent recurrence either in the breast or somewhere else in the body.

  • Wynne50
    Wynne50 Member Posts: 67
    edited May 2014

    klj, my cancer was just like yours.  Surgeon said they got everything in biopsy.  I struggled a lot with the decision to to do hormone therapy but finally decided to just try it.  My onc said my chances of recurrence were 8% at 10 years and taking the pill would reduce it to 5% at best.  I'm 63 so taking Letrazole.  I have decided that if the SE's are too much I will just keep trying the other ones or just quit. My onc was fine with that. He did say that he wouldn't keep me on any drug for months that made me feel awful.  I've only been on it for a week and haven't felt any differently than before. He also told me this would only prevent recurrence of breast cancer spreading somewhere else (I was confused about that).  He said my chances of another kind of cancer were the same as before I was diagnosed with this.

  • KLJ
    KLJ Member Posts: 284
    edited May 2014

    Yikes, sorry if I said something that is wrong! I definitely need to read more. Should have had a way to record everything he was saying. So much information in one hour it was overwhelming! Lesson learned.

    Has anyone come across any books or info that gives solid information on a good diet to follow with ER/PR + cancer? I definitely want to step up on my eating habits. Not just for weight loss but to make sure that what I am putting in my body is not feeding any left over cancer cells. I know about eating organic/non gmo products but I know there must be some book out there that I need to be reading. Thanks everyone and I will keep my fingers quiet and my ears open!


  • Frostecat
    Frostecat Member Posts: 447
    edited May 2014

    SpecialK - thank you for clarifying.

    KLJ - don't feel like you can't type/ask anything - that is the reason we are all here!

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited May 2014

    Here is some food info.  I follow the Virgin Diet, it has helped with joint pain from aromatase inhibitors and an inability to lose the weight gained from chemo and taking AI afterward.  I have lost 22 lbs. since January and now weigh less than before I was diagnosed. I now have no joint pain, and my lymphedema is much better since I have less inflammation.  This is a very restrictive diet, and I was avoiding dairy, soy, sugar and gluten before I started it.

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/0373892713/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=33141329408&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14504870114861910585&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_39s5o6zxw_e

    There are some folks who have found this info helpful.
    http://foodforbreastcancer.com/

    This is a great book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Anticancer-A-New-Way-Life/dp/0670021644

    Also, just read a reference to this book, but have not read the book itself so can't comment on the specifics.

    http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Food-Guide-Breast-Cancer-Survivors/dp/1572249587/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400694412&sr=1-3&keywords=edward+bauman

  • KLJ
    KLJ Member Posts: 284
    edited May 2014

    Thanks SpecialK! That helps a lot!

  • scary
    scary Member Posts: 213
    edited May 2014

    KLJ,  I stay away from soy, and am eating more fruits and veggies, less red meat.

    I have been on Femara for over a month, and it is actually making me feel better.  A hot flash here and there, but that just forces me to drink more ice water, so that is good.

  • EverForward
    EverForward Member Posts: 242
    edited May 2014

    Hi ladies. Looking ahead to my mastectomy and reconstruction in a few months... How long after the initial surgery were you out of commission completely and how long was it until you could go back to work? I know a lot depends on individual factors, complications, infection, etc. I'm trying to get a sense of how long I should plan to be out of the office. Thanks.

  • Kazzy115
    Kazzy115 Member Posts: 122
    edited May 2014

    Everforward - I had a bilateral mastectomy with expanders in mid March. I was home two weeks but feeling pretty good in week two.  The third week I worked part time from home and then returned to the office in week four.  Relatively no issues.  Some fatigue but not crazy wiped out.   I believe I had a pretty easy time of it and may not fit the norm but wanted to share.  

  • SouthernBling
    SouthernBling Member Posts: 63
    edited May 2014

    EverForward:

    I had drains removed at two weeks and returned to work after three full weeks. I had a few surprises during my surgery with some additional bleeding, but I still was able to have the nipple-sparing procedure. The BMX and TEs haven't really been as bad as I thought. Weird, but not bad!!! 

    Best wishes for an easy surgery and recovery!

  • Gramof2boys
    Gramof2boys Member Posts: 194
    edited May 2014

    I had a LMX with node removal, felt ok after 2 weeks and back to work after 4 weeks. I was a little tired but managed. I will have RMX and bilateral GAP flap in August, not really looking forward to that. I think PS said 4 to 6 weeks for that one.

  • Juliecc
    Juliecc Member Posts: 4,868
    edited May 2014

    Hi Everforwad, I went to work after 4 weeks to a desk job.  I think I needed that 4th week off not because of pain really but I was still pretty fatigued.  I still liked my naps and would go to bed early.  If I had worries about my job, I could have gone back in 3 weeks but they took care of all my duties for 4 :-)  I drove by 2 weeks and was pretty self sufficient after 1 week.

  • Frostecat
    Frostecat Member Posts: 447
    edited May 2014

    I took a little longer.  My drain didn't come out until 3 weeks.  I was still really tired at 4 and needed a daily nap, I don't think if I could have done it.  Plus I think I gave myself time to feel stronger after not doing much of anything.   I was ready physically at 5/6 weeks, but my Dr. wouldn't release me until he saw me again, and he was out of the office, so it ended up being 7 weeks for me.  In hindsight, I had Dr. appointments up through that time anyways, and I would have been missing work to do that had I returned, and I have no more sick time left.  Week 6 I had two Dr. appointments that ended up taking half of a day each.  Fortunately for me, my workplace is very compassionate, I know that may not be case for others.

  • Juliecc
    Juliecc Member Posts: 4,868
    edited May 2014

    For my 4 weeks, I applied for disability and the rest of my pay was made up by my 2 weeks sick time and a litlle vacation time.  Disability omly pays about 40% or something.  Fo my exchange surgery, I'll need to use vacation time.  It will be on a Friday so I'll try to just take off that Friday and the following week hopfully.  

  • EverForward
    EverForward Member Posts: 242
    edited May 2014

    Thanks, everyone. This is really helpful. 

  • DiveCat
    DiveCat Member Posts: 968
    edited May 2014

    Everforward...

    Obviously a lot I will depend on your surgery, who you react to the GA, how you heal, etc.

    I had a PBMX with direct to implant on April 24th. I was fortunate to have a very, very good recovery. Though I had some lifting and mobility restrictions in 1st week or two, my energy was very good after a few days, I was able to walk a few miles a day starting 3-4 days out, go back to gym for light cardio at 2 weeks, etc. Off narcotics after day 3" and take nothing regularly for pain at this point. Drains were out at a week though could have come out sooner but I live a couple hours away from my PS. Was able to drive at 3 weeks. Have not had any significant complications or healing issues. So I will say I am one of the ones who had a great recovery, though I was prepared for the worst. 

    I booked 6 weeks off just in case there were issues or delayed healing, but am going back next week after 4 weeks off, either full time or near full time. I could have gone back this week, but wanted to give myself an extra few days just in case and as I had some personal appointments and such this week.  While my job is primarily a desk job it can be quite high stress and demand long hours. I did not want to throw myself back into that too soon. I did do some work from home starting at the end of the 1st week, but nothing major, just emails and such. 

  • sandra4611
    sandra4611 Member Posts: 2,913
    edited May 2014

    Ever, when you go back, make it a Thursday. That way if you are wiped out after the first day, you only have one more day to get through until the weekend. Don't start on Monday!

  • Frostecat
    Frostecat Member Posts: 447
    edited May 2014

    I had to use every bit of sick time, vacation time, personal time, then when that was used up 2 weeks of zero pay, then short term disability at 50%.  Thankfully part of my salary is derived from commission so what I had submitted prior to my absence, still came in, thank goodness.

  • lovemytwinz
    lovemytwinz Member Posts: 11
    edited May 2014

    Hey everyone! I hope you all are enjoying the long weekend. The weather is wonderful here in Maryland today. I spent the day watching one of my boys play in a baseball tournament and enjoyed every minute of it! I am so thankful to be able to get out again and live! I had my last fill on Thursday and I am expanded to 660cc. On Tuesday I will have my simulation done for radiation and I was wondering if any of you had any ideas on what I could expect.....

  • KellyGreen
    KellyGreen Member Posts: 23
    edited May 2014

    Anyone have any thoughts on riding roller coasters with TEs lol?! We have season passes to Cedar Point again this year and I rode a few "mild" ones with my daughter yesterday. I'm 8 weeks out from BMX and my TEs are half full. My PS said its not on a list of the top ten things not to do with TEs or implants for that matter. And I know a lot of you are jogging/exercising. So while I'm holding everything down (made for interesting pix) and avoiding the really vigorous rides, I just wondered if anyone had experience with this!

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