Can I delay treatment after surgery?

goofytoo
goofytoo Member Posts: 19
edited June 2014 in Just Diagnosed

I was diagnosed on March 14, 2014.  I see the surgeons tomorrow.  

I do not have a stage yet.  However if my nodes are not involved I think it will be Stage 1.  The tumor is 1.5 cm and is invasive ductal cancer with low grade ductal carcinoma in situ also present?  I read somewhere on the internet that it was impossible to have both, yet that is what my pathologist report says.  Anyway I am estrogen and progesterone positive and HER-2/neu Negative. Grade 1.  I also have numerous areas of abnormal breast tissue, but no cancer.

I guess I am an odd duck.  I am not looking at this diagnoses as a possible life ending event.  More like an annoyance that I have to go through all of this crap just to get rid of it.  Maybe I am too stupid to realize the severity of it all.  But I am guessing that since my tumor is slow growing and responds to hormones, I will be able to get away with just the surgery and hormone therapy.  I really do not want radiation or chemo therapy. 

I am thinking left breast mastectomy and reconstruction.  I have seen my mammogram and in addition to a smalI mass, I have micro or macro-calcifications everywhere.  Personally, I do not even know how they picked which areas to biopsy because they all looked the same to me.  As a matter of fact, I got a call from the breast center telling me they want to take another mammogram when I meet with the surgeons, because the radiologist thinks the original radiologists missed some areas of concern. I can picture this being a problem in the future and don't want to have to deal with biopsies every time I get a new calcification.

Anyway, I have an Alaska cruise planned in June.  I am hoping to rush the surgery and be healed before we go.  I was just wondering if the cancer did spread to my nodes and I do need radiation or chemo if it was possible to put that off until after I return from the cruise.  Has anyone ever done this?

I am glad that this site is available for questions and I appreciate any responses. 

Comments

  • LovebeingNana
    LovebeingNana Member Posts: 134
    edited April 2014

    Hi Goofytoo, really the only one who can answer those questions is your Doctor(s). I know for me, they really wanted to keep the treatment train moving and get it dealt with, but that was based on my pathology etc. Potentially, if you do not need chemo and radiation you would be ready to go in June, but that really will depend on your pathology. Best wishes to you.

  • jamonthis
    jamonthis Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2014

    OOh, ask your doc.  That would be a lovely trip if you can.  Otherwise, Alaska will wait for you.

  • Novagirl
    Novagirl Member Posts: 123
    edited April 2014

    I had my surgery June27th 2013. We were waiting for my cycle to start so we could do the fertility preservation and freeze eggs before chemo. My cycle took longer because of the stress and also a delay from the anesthesia of the surgery. I started chemo on August 30th 2013. I had a grade 3 tumor. My oncologist gave me between 8-10 weeks before he had to start treatment.

  • mjm1
    mjm1 Member Posts: 139
    edited April 2014

    I hate to be negative, but there's research showing that starting chemo (if you need it) sooner rather than later increases the chances it'll work. Sometimes there are medical reasons to delay (complications after surgery, fertility-related). And ultimately it's your choice. But discuss with your doctor.

    Hopefully being low grade and early stage will mean the treatment will be in a form that can fit in with your holiday.

    Best wishes!



  • juneping
    juneping Member Posts: 1,594
    edited April 2014

    my experience was the tumor size from US was very small like 1.2cm but after the mx it's over 6cm. They couldn't detect any lymph nodes on US and MRI but two were found during dissection. So I hate to say this that you just don't know until the final path report.

    And you do have a say about your own treatment plan. You can talk to your MO and work out the plan and time table.

  • goofytoo
    goofytoo Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2014

    Thanks for the responses.  You are right I am going to have to wait and see.  I know I really won't know my DX until I have the surgery, but I am a planner and try to plan everything out in advance.  So I have been a little bit OCD about this. It has been a month since I was diagnosed and I don't even have a surgery date yet. 

    I am tired of waiting. 

  • juneping
    juneping Member Posts: 1,594
    edited April 2014

    personally I would go to the trip before the treatment if you need one. The lymph node dissection recovery was pretty tough for me. The mx location recovery was very pain free. I couldn't really wash my hair or dress myself properly. The trip would be better if it's a month post surgery. But some ppl might have a faster recovery time. It depends on your body healing speed. I wish you the best. 

  • ICanDoThis
    ICanDoThis Member Posts: 1,473
    edited April 2014

    I was also ER/Pr+, HER-, Grade 1

    What they don't tell you -- and, boy, don't I wish they had --

    This tends to be a pretty slow moving cancer. So a delay of even a couple of months is really no big deal.

    But, once you have surgery, the clock is ticking on all your other treatments.

    Ask your surgeon, but if I were in your shoes, I would strongly consider going on the trip, and then going back and diving into treatment 

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2014

    Its not impossible to have both IDC and DCIS.  (You can't have IDC at precisely the same spot as DCIS though.  You can have the two diagnoses at different spots.)

    Its quite common to have both IDC and DCIS.  In fact, in this abstract, they found almost 80% of IDC cases also had DCIS (diagnosed at the same time.)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23870857

    So, you are _not_ an 'odd duck'.  There are lots of women here who have both IDC and DCIS.  You are not alone.

  • MakeLemonade
    MakeLemonade Member Posts: 153
    edited April 2014

    I am one of those - mostly IDC,  but  some spots of DCIS.  All in the upper outer quadrant of the left breast.  

  • AmyQ
    AmyQ Member Posts: 2,182
    edited April 2014

    Has your doc discussed an Oncotype test to determine need for chemo? I think it may be appropriate here but of course the test will not be done until after surgery.  I'd go on vacation after surgery of course, put it all out of your mind and jump back into matters after you return.  Good luck -

  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited April 2014

    Are you sure surgery is first?  Neo-adjuvant chemo is becoming more common.

  • Nettie1964
    Nettie1964 Member Posts: 759
    edited April 2014

    I was diagnosed in November 2012, Had surgery December 12, 2012.  Then due to some infection and complications from the infection, I did not start Chemo until March 14!  This is WAY past the recommendation!  I was told no more than 60 days!  And as you can see it was 90 for me!  Because of this, I have always wondered if a stray cell escaped and has been hiding from treatment just to rear its ugly head at some point!

  • InspiredbyDolce
    InspiredbyDolce Member Posts: 1,181
    edited April 2014

    I very much agree with MJM. We have had this discussion a lot in the TNBC forum.  I will see if I can find you an article to reference of the stats, but from the research I have come across, starting chemo within 30 days after surgery was optimal.  Did you get insurance on your cruise, or would you be able to book?  I will try to locate these stats for you!

    I'm editing this to say, that many women have had chemo after 30 days are and doing well. Certain circumstances made them a better candidate for attempting chemo at a later time.

    From article here at bc.org:  "Best to Start Chemotherapy Within 30 Days of Surgery"

    However, first and foremost, the main thing to remember is:  This is Cancer!  I do strongly feel that sometimes our service providers become too comfortable with the fact that it is cancer.  If a cancer cell has left a surgery site, it has the potential to spread and grow into a bigger problem.  The longer it is left untreated, the higher the risk that it can spread, grow and even form new cancer stem cells. Even if your nodes are clear and not affected, surgery could leave behind some microscopic cancer cells. However, women have been treated successfully after extended periods of delay.  For me, and learning what I know about cancer, I would rebook my cruise - it could be a celebration cruise for completing treatment!

    - adjuvant chemo, timeframe to start chemo after surgery,

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2014

    This is a quite old paper (1999), but it found delays of 3-6 months were associated with lower survival. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10209974

    This paper (2013) found delays more than 12 weeks to curative surgery were associated with lower survival in breast cancer. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23529782

    In this paper of TNBC  Median follow-up was 40 months for 301 TNBC patients. Mean interval to treatment was 46 ± 2 days. Higher initial stage yielded worse survival (p < .0001). Interval to treatment
    did not impact overall survival (p = .24), although there was a trend
    toward worse survival with delays of >90 days (p = .06). 
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23292484

    These authors opined

    Most recent, prospective, randomized, phase III trials that evaluated
    adjuvant systemic chemotherapy
    regimens specifically define an acceptable time period
    between definitive surgery and chemotherapy for patient enrollment
    eligibility to be generally not more than 12 weeks (3,4).
    Not surprisingly, no randomized trials have specifically addressed the
    effect of timing of initiation of adjuvant chemotherapy
    for breast cancer outcome. The results of
    retrospective studies evaluating this variable suggest that the impact
    of this parameter,
    if any, is limited (5).  
    http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/105/2/80.lo...

    This subject is outside of my personal experience since I've never had chemotherapy, and I'm sure there are other articles and opinions. From this small selection of papers, it sounds like you may have worse outcomes after about 3 months.  I'm no expert about this.

  • Notbuyingit
    Notbuyingit Member Posts: 1,035
    edited April 2014

    i know i shouldn't say this - but i am the skeptic on this site - knowing what i know now - having been through the rush from surgery to Rads. If I were you I would go on the cruise before I even start & enjoy the hell out of it.

  • goofytoo
    goofytoo Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2014

    Thanks for all of responses. 

    I am getting the feeling from the doctors lack luster attitude about setting a surgery date, and the knowledge that it is a grade 1 cancer, that I probably could wait until after the cruise to have the surgery.  I asked them if I could have the surgery before May 15 and they told me it was doubtful. 

    I just want to point out that I am making these comments more out of anger from the doctors lack of commitment than the fact that I am not taking my illness seriously.  You will see over time that my first reaction to most situations I don't like is defiance.  It takes me awhile to settle down and think logically and practically.  Right now, I am in my defiance stage.

  • GeorgiaRai
    GeorgiaRai Member Posts: 175
    edited April 2014

    In November of 2011, my siblings and I gave our mother a cruise (scheduled for early Feb. 2012) for her 80th birthday.  Two weeks later...surprise!... breast cancer diagnosis.  I had neo-adjuvant chemo so my schedule was different, but my MO had no problem scheduling chemo around the cruise.  I had my first treatment, went on my trip 3 weeks later, and had chemo #2 the day after I returned. 

    I was Grade 1, as well, and it seemed like after the docs spent 7-8 weeks doing diagnostic stuff,  my little 5 day cruise shouldn't make much of a difference.  Good luck, goofytoo, in whatever you decide.

  • maltomlin
    maltomlin Member Posts: 343
    edited April 2014

    Hi

    I was dx with grade 3 and 3 nodes involved....that was 6 years ago.

    After my surgery I asked for the chemo treatment to be put back until I'd had my holiday with my family.......no problem.....good idea. I came back feeling refreshed and ready for chemo (if anyone is).

    It's important to spend time with your family and not get wrapped up in 'cancer land'.......life will be good again...........

  • goofytoo
    goofytoo Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2014

    Thanks for the responses.  I was hoping to avoid Chemo and/or radiation, but the surgeon warned me I most  likely have at least stage 2.  I have talked to both surgeons and have told them that I will be on that cruise.  The plastic surgeon seems to be interested in getting my surgery done in time, but the general surgeon does not.  The general surgeon guaranteed me Tuesday that I would be put on the schedule and I would know by Wednesday when my surgery was.  Today is Friday and I am still not on the schedule.  I was so angry that I just had to leave the house and go for a drive. It is so frustrating  not knowing when they are going to finally take care of this. 

    Anyway, I've decided that I am going on the cruise.  If my cancer can wait for everyone else to finish their vacations, then it can wait until I finish mine.  The plan is to have the surgery before May 15th, go on the cruise and deal with whatever happens after that. 

  • InspiredbyDolce
    InspiredbyDolce Member Posts: 1,181
    edited April 2014

    Goofytoo, I just came back on to check on you and see how you were doing!  I can relate to taking a drive - helps me put things in perspective and to get a handle on situations.  It's very therapeutic.  As you mentioned, if your team can take vacations and aren't worried, than perhaps you can also take yours and enjoy.  One thing that does seem very helpful is the lower grade of your tumor. Once you get on the schedule for surgery, you'll also feel that things are moving forward.  As they are the specialists, they have much insight about your particular case to make the decisions and provide you with the best recommendations and opportunity for prognosis.  

    Also, not sure if you all know, but there is a free place to ask breast cancer questions from an expert.  I've submitted questions at this link before and have received replies within 24 hours and sometimes as fast as 1 hour.  I'm going to post the link in case you have a question that they can help you with.

    - Ask an Expert:  John Hopkins Breast Cancer Center:  http://www.hopkinsbreastcenter.org/services/ask_ex...

    Best wishes to you and we will be following things along to see how you are doing!  Hang in there and have a great time on your cruise.  We are envious of that, you know!  :)

    - adjuvant chemo, when to start chemo, breast cancer questions and answers

  • msphil
    msphil Member Posts: 1,536
    edited April 2014


    I found my lump in the shower, and all this was happening while I was making wedding plans, so I got 3 months of chemo before the L mast, then 3 months chemo after L mast, then we were allowed to get married, then I got the radiation, then we went on our Honeymoon. I am now Praise GOD a 20 yr Survivor. msphil(idc,stage2, 0/3 nodes, L mast chemo and rads and 5 yrs on tamoxifen)  

  • goofytoo
    goofytoo Member Posts: 19
    edited April 2014

    Thanks again for all of the support. 

    I finally got a surgery date. I will get my mastectomy next week..  Thank you plastic surgeon for pressuring the general surgeons to get the surgery done sooner than later.  I already made up my mind I was going on the cruise no matter what. 

    Now I run into the what ifs.  I am sure everybody here knows what I am talking about.  What if it spread to my lymph nodes?  I am pretty sure it already has considering I haven't had a mammogram since 2006.  What if it already spread to my liver?  My liver enzymes are already slightly elevated.  Of course that could be due to many reasons.  My liver is very sensitive.

    At this point I am thinking if it has already spread then it can be dealt with AFTER I cross off an item that has been on my bucket list since I  learned that Alaska has more daylight than we do during the summer.  I am going to be in Alaska on the summer solstice!!!  Not only me but I am giving 3 of my children the same experience.  How cool is that!!!

    I am so much more relaxed now that I know the surgery date.  Just think, I haven't even talked to an oncologist yet!! The saying id TRUE.  IGNORANCE IS BLISS!!!

  • goofytoo
    goofytoo Member Posts: 19
    edited May 2014

    Just following up. 

     I had surgery April 29, 2014.  I am already back to work part-time.  All indications are that I will be good to go to Alaska.  I won't see an Oncologist until the last week of May, but she is aware that I do not want to start treatment until after my trip. 

    I was diagnosed with T1BN0 Stage 1.  I really don't know what that means other than it is a good prognosis and there were no lymph nodes involved.  I am really confused by the pathology report.  Pathology report says less than 1cm of cancer, yet ultrasound was clear and the mass measured 1.5cm.  My surgeon said that I was stage 1B.  If I had less than 1cm of cancer and no lymph node involvement why am I stage 1b? 

    Also I had some LCIS in my breast.  My surgeon said not to worry about it since I had a mastectomy.  I read some where having LCIS present means I am more likely to get cancer in my other breast.  Does this mean I am a candidate for Chemo?  Surgeon told me my cancer does not warrant Onconotype DX?  What?  I am stage 1, ER+, HE2- and no node involvement.  I thought the test was specifically designed for my type of cancer.

    Anybody's insight would be appreciated.

  • BrooksideVT
    BrooksideVT Member Posts: 2,211
    edited May 2014

     Goofytoo, with a T1BNO finding (the main Breastcancer.org website will help you translate), chances are pretty good you will not need chemo.  It is your onc who will order (or not order) the oncotype.  Your surgeon might have been indicating that your stats are so excellent that chemo is highly unlikely.  As for measuring the tumor--the ultrasound measurement depends a great deal on who is doing the measuring, and rather variable reports happen.  I watched my radiologist measure the wrong diameter, but never thought to point out her error.  All my presurgical assumptions were for a tiny tumor.  The radiologist had said .4 cm, and it turned out to be 1.1 cm.  Had I not watched her measurement, I'd have panicked about a superfast growing invader.  

    Enjoy the cruise--so jealous!

  • goofytoo
    goofytoo Member Posts: 19
    edited May 2014

    Thanks BrooksideVT.  I am looking forward to the cruise.  I am trying to walk 4 miles a day to build up my stamina.  That is 2 2mile walks a day.  I want to be able to sight see when I go on the cruise.

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