How vain are you?
Comments
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Ack! Yes, quackery is not new.
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But... get the last few paragraphs! The judge decided that - since he didn't mean to hurt her - ergo he shouldn't be sentenced too harshly! GAH!!!
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OK, this is not a very happy question, so sorry in advance. What do you say to friends who report that they have a friend, who has metastatic cancer in many and bad places, treatments no longer working etc and then say something like, "but my friend is hopeful and I am sure she can beat this!"
It has happened to me twice this week, and I know the kind thing is to nod and agree, but I am finding it really difficult.
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momine, that's a tough one, but I really think the only thing you can do, is nod, and express sympathy, knowing it's a VERY difficult situation for your friend. If being "hopeful" helps her friend, I'd just let it be.
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Momine, before my dx & tx, I might have blurted out "she's toast". Now, I am much more sensitive & depending on how well I knew this person, would give an empathetic explanation on the odds of that being possible. We know some ladies do live a long time with mets, but when everything quits working it is so sad. I hate reading about these young women in there 30s & 40s with mets....heart breaking...
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Yes, just going along, nodding politely and wishing them the best, is the only thing to do. Often we need denial to get through one day to the next. I wouldn't dream of bursting that bubble.
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Thanks, I know you are right. I would never say anyone was toast anyway. Hope dies last and you never know.
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Momine, I knew I probably should not have posted that, so crude & insensitive....I really hope that I would have bit my tongue. When you hear of someone being dx with pancreatic cancer, you always think its bad. Sorry if I offended you guys....
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on this topic, how do you respond when the perpetually hopeful and cheerful comments are directed at you? I've been having a really hard time handling such comments from my boss, in particular. I know she means well and just doesn't get it, but even when I explain it, repeatedly, the response is, but I know you will beat this. I finally had to shock some sense into her this weekend by saying "I have to reevaluate what I am doing and what it means to be stage IV". First response, when did you find out you were stage IV? Umm last week when I told you it's in my lung... I got a bit of good news at the dr today and she is back to rainbows and butterflies. I went along with most of it because indeed it was the best bad news I could get, but she chided me on a negative comment I made and I told her that's just the reality of this. It's easier to let her act this way but it really bothers me deep down. Maybe I have been to protective of everyone else's feelings by remaining upbeat and that's why they don't get it?
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Sheila, I need to apologize to you also...I need to delete those posts. I am truly sorry for your progression with this horrific disease.
I do think, some folks really do not know enough about bc to understand how serious it is... I hope you get the correct treatment to get you NED.
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holeinone, no apology needed. I tend to blurt out insensitive comments myself at times. I didn't think a second thought about it until you apologized.
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Sheila, shit, but I am sorry this is happening to you, all of it. The progression, the having to explain and just the fact that you have to accept, what is happening to you, too. I am glad there was some good news too!
I truly think that people just feel they have to act upbeat and give as many positive affirmations as they can because of both fear for themselves, and that dreadful fear, of simply saying the wrong thing. It just comes down to ignorance and fear. I can imagine how wearing it must be for you, but I have no clue how you change their perspective.
You have always displayed such a strong front and great down to earth attitude, I've always admired you, and I am sure that's what you show at work too, as you say, maybe that is part of it. I wish I knew what to suggest, but I really don't know.
All I can say is, just do, or say, what feels right for you, whatever that may be. You shouldn't have to tippy toe around other people's feelings, it really isn't, "all about them", in this instance, you know what I mean? Big smooshy hugs to you...M x
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Sheila,
I agree that you just need to say whatever feels right to you. You have no control over how someone else processes or responds to what you've said. Some people will never get it or respond appropriately. I don't like to go into minute details of my bc. To those who know I'm stage IV ( and not many outside my immediate circle do and I look just fine) here's what I've said. "I have a metastases to my femur. It's not a good thing. I have been successfully treated for almost 3 years but this won't last forever, in all likelihood. I'm just going to live my life the best that I can for now and hope newer and better treatments come along. When my disease progresses, I'll deal with it at the time." I would like to add that everyone knows I have breast cancer, but most assume I've been treated and am done.
Momine,
Biting ones tongue is a skill worth learning, though I struggle with it too. It is hard to hear those things.
Caryn
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vanity beat all: I don't even have my treatment plan in place yet and am thinking. Oh great, now I will never have my recon. I know it's a personal decision but any input on vanity vs misery? If I only have so much time (hopefully a loooong time, but possibly only a handful of years), should a year and a half of it be spent on the recon process? Making a mental list of pros and cons.
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Reading this thread for the first time and finding it filled with interesting lovely women.
A friend had cancer six times and he is fine with lots of hair and a huge smile. They had to do chemo several times and he came back fine. And he is stage IV since the second that metastasized.
When he knew about my DX he told me about his story. And he said that if it happens again the doctors will control it again. He is special and am example of strength.
Now about the vanity: using Li Lash to help my eye lashes grow faster and at one of the PS visits to do a follow up on my reconstruction i had my Botox and Juvederm session too. A little ME time I needed and helped immensely with the lines I developed during chemo.
Pajamas definitely coordinated, earrings to go to bed. No lipstick in bed to not to mark my sheets. Perfume on my pillow makes me and my husband sleep better. Love my wigs and don't feel free enough to walk outside with no wig. Have seven of them.
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Headeast, you are right, and my own aunt is another good example of someone living on quite happily in spite of various nasty mets. I have to keep that firmly in mind. It just got to me this week, and I am sorry if I upset anyone.
Sheila, I am very sorry about your progression, and even with an "only" stage 3 cancer, I can relate to the upbeat comments and insistence that we be all unicorns and rainbow farts. I think it is partly because there is a pervasive mythology out there that being "positive" will somehow kill the cancer. People also tend to interpret reality checks as being downers, which always confuses me. They like to tell me that I "beat it" and I will obviously be fine. Uhm, no, not necessarily. I certainly hope so, but really, with this stupid beast, there are no guarantees.
As for the recon, I am living without recon and so far doing just fine with it. I wear tiny foobs on most days. Right now my foobs are simply silicone bra liners (meant for enhancement so-called) on top of a stiff bra pad. They stay put in a yoga top and that way I can skip a proper bra (which irritates my lymph system). In terms of vanity, wearing foobs means that you can make them as small or large as you like, and as perky as you like
It may look funny on me to be walking around with iron tits at age 50, but I like them so pft! 
Also, in the context of vanity, given my extensive radiation treatment, build, lack of muscle etc, as far as I can judge, I would most likely end up with a major frankenboob situation and that would bother me far more than the neat scars I have now. Personally I am not inclined to waste any of the time I have left, even if it is a wonderfully long time, on being laid up in a hospital bed with drains etc. But it is a very personal decision. Other people are more tolerant of hospitals and surgery than I am (I am guessing most people actually). -
I hate when people do the "positive" lecture and the "oh, you'll be fine" (that's what they said before diagnosis!!). It makes it seem like if we don't make it and die, then it was all our fault and we weren't positive enough!!
All of my family think it's all in the past - long, long ago. What they don't realize is that I see my flat chest every day at least twice. My scars are a reminder that I won THIS round, but I know it's far from over. I still get neck and abdomen scans every year due to lymph and nodule issues (in fact, just had another US this morning!) as well as seeing my onc. How is one to forget that we are sitting on time bombs?
p.s. I do NOT wear fresh makeup to a 6:45 am US appt - they do get yesterdays leftover mascara though....
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Sheila... I'm so sorry about your progression; that truly sucks! And it's maddening, this pervasive notion that "being positive" can, somehow, make it all better. But... I guess that most people - while well-intentioned - just don't get it. How could they? Especially if they've never heard the words, "... you have cancer ..." said to them. That fear, that stark reality, the upheaval and tilting of one's sense of reality can never be understood by someone who hasn't experienced it first-hand.
It made me angry, at first. I hated (and still extremely dislike) the whole way of thinking that the "Pink Ribbon Tyranny" has on society. Be positive, be upbeat, SMILE and you'll feel much better. Uh... not! It amazes me how many people think that breast cancer is one of the "good" cancers. Uh... not! It floors me the number of people - women included - who seem to think that, because you've developed breast cancer, it was something that you did (or didn't do). Uh... so NOT! And as Momine said, having people respond like it's all unicorns and rainbow farts (good one, by-the-by, I might just steal it) is just so infuriating.
But, that said, I've come to accept that everyone copes with cancer news in different ways. Some people, honestly, feel that they are providing strength- and encouragement by focussing on the "positive" of the situation. Other people need to focus on the "positive" because they simply cannot cope with any other outcome. And still other people focus on the "positive" because they truly believe that this is the only way to find meaning in a bad situation. I've had to learn to temper my anger with those people who, for whatever reason, are coming from a good place in their heart. Not easy to do, especially when one is coping with all the realities- and nightmares of a cancer diagnosis. It just doesn't seem fair that, with everything else that's going on, it's you that has to learn to cope with other people's perceptions, rather than other people learning to adjust to your new reality. It should be about YOU, but somehow it ends up being about THEM and what they THINK you need, rather than what you really NEED ... which, sometimes, is to JUST SHUT-UP AND LISTEN TO ME!
Cancer is brutally hard in so many ways: physically; emotionally, psychologically; and spiritually. And people who haven't had cancer can never fully digest that. Some of them, who've had a loved one suffer from cancer, have a better idea of the toll cancer takes on our lives, but I still feel that - unless THEY have heard those awful words, "... I'm sorry, but you have cancer...", they cannot fully understand the life-long impact that has. And learning to cope with how other people respond to those of us who have heard those words is just the final indignity.
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For as positive as I am about things, life in general not just my current situation, I am always quite pragmatic. I know what most certainly awaits me and I'm not betting the farm that I'll be in the 1-2% of stage IV ladies who is a long term survivor. When people tell me I'll beat it because of my attitude, I just laugh and say, "If only it were that easy". After that, I have no control over what they think/believe and just have to let it go. If attitude really did cure bc, I'd be bottling mine and selling it (and I'd throw in a free mascara).
Caryn
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What selenawolf said, resonates for me. It's about the person WITH the illness, I think the best thing we can do, be, is just to BE with the person, sensing how that person wants to address her life and experience. Anything else is putting on OUR/your situation/opinion/point of view on the person who is ill, or in trouble.
If that other person is a very good friend, it's also, I think, very different than say a casual "officemate."
I've also developed a very healthy sense of my OWN boundaries, limitations, choices - and as kayb describes her limitations, I have the same ones, if the situation is too difficult for ME to deal with, I explain, and remove myself.
Tried to explain to someone once who wanted me to be a "sounding board" for her when she was diagnosed ( not a friend, just someone I knew) and I compared it to what we are all told as kids: if someone falls thru the ice on a pond, NEVER go close to where the ice has broken, get a rope if you can, a LONG pole, whatever, but do NOT go out to the person who has fallen into the pond where the ice is thin. I gave advice to that person of where to look for support, was sympathetic, but explained that I couldn't be her "sounding board" in her illness.
Sometimes another person's diagnosis of bc, can be very "thin ice."
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Caryn, well said (as usual).
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A lot of people talk about my attitude as "positive" but I see it more as "accepting". I have Stage IV cancer, I can't change that. I live my life as close to normal as I can in this situation. A rabbi I study with once said, "You cannot control the situation but you can control how you react to the situation". I can laugh or I can cry. Most of the time I choose to laugh.
I was dx Stage IV a week before one of my granddaughters was born. She's almost 4 now, and when she sees me her face lights up and she runs over for hugs and kisses. If I weren't accepting, if I sat in the corner and moaned and cried about my situation all the time, do you think that would happen? And what would be her memories of me (and the memories of all my grandchildren) if I did that? Acceptance of my situation has meant the flowering of wonderful relationships.
But "positive attitude"? I know what this disease will do to me eventually. All the "positive attitude" in the world won't change that. I just ignore it as much as I can.
Leah
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Leah, I hear you and in that sense I am also positive. The way I see it, doing my best to enjoy and be happy may not keep the cancer away, but it will make my life far more pleasant.
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Amen, Leah and momine! I'm looking for quality of life. Being positive, most of the time, simply makes my life easier and more enjoyable. Anger and bitterness are unattractive on me and don't make me feel very good, and this is the vanity thread, isn't it?
Caryn
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Time Magazine is reporting on belief in medical conspiracies:
"In the study, 1,351 adults were asked about whether they had heard of, and agreed or disagreed with, six popular medical conspiracy theories, such as those which hold that U.S. regulators prevent people from getting natural cures, that the U.S. government knows cell phones cause cancer but does nothing about it, and that the CIA infected a large number of African Americans with HIV.
About 49% of the people agreed with at least one of the theories, which all had distrust of the government or large corporations as the common characteristic.
According to the study’s lead author, J. Eric Oliver, the reason so many people believe in medical conspiracy theories is that they are easier to understand than science. He added that people who believe in one or more of these theories are more likely to use alternative instead of conventional medicine." http://time.com/29810/half-of-americans-believe-in-medical-conspiracy-theories/
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In other news, dark chocolate really IS a health food Eat Chocolate!
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According to the study’s lead author, J. Eric Oliver, the reason so many people believe in medical conspiracy theories is that they are easier to understand than science.
Oh, good lord! I can't even begin to process what this says about the current state of our society. But, then again, a society that views watching the Kardashians "entertainment" ... DOH!
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Common sense ain't so common, is it!!! Conspiracy theories are for sheep. People who can't think on their own and just follow trendings. I have been cursed with a genius IQ and it has been very hard to blend into society. I have either bitten my tongue or been ostracized for not agreeing with tripe. I find this thread to be filled with intelligent ladies and that's why I've stuck around. Seriously.
People don't understand that accepting our breast cancer and liking it are two different things. I can't tell you how many people, when finding out I have breast cancer say "OH, but you're such a happy person!!". What the hell does that have to do with anything!! Seriously?? A couple of weeks ago, my almost 4 year old grandson was sitting on my lap. We got to talking about "boobies", his favourite topic at this point for some reason and I told him that "NaNa doesn't have boobies anymore. They got taken off because they had cancer." I wanted a simple explanation and didn't want to say "sick" or he'd think anyone sick was going to get something cut off! His great-grandfather died of lung cancer before he was born and I didn't want him relating the word cancer necessarily with death. He reached back and ran his hand over my chest and made as if to look down my top. I stretched out the neck of my t-shirt but he didn't really look down. We went back to reading "Henry and the Purple Crayon". Simple. I wish everyone had the mind of a 4 year old.... (my other grandsons haven't shown any interest yet, or mentioned "boobies")
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"Oh, good lord! I can't even begin to process what this says about the current state of our society. But, then again, a society that views watching the Kardashians "entertainment"
I totally agree Selena. The Kardashian obsession surely signals the decline of society!
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"... I have been cursed with a genius IQ and it has been very hard to blend into society ..."
LOL, Barbe! Couple that with being OCD/Anal Retentive and you have described my struggle to a "T". Blend in? Not a chance! And, now, I find that - post breast cancer - what little "mouth filter" I did develop over the years is gone. Poof! Life is too short to suffer through the tripe, as you call it.
[Are you really old enough to be a grandmother? Sure don't look it, Girlfriend.]
exbrxgrl... I read an interesting article several months ago on the "Vulgarization of Western Society" (or something similar) and the reality tv/Kardashian phenomenon was the focus of the downward trend
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