Choosing between AC-T and CT

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Macintx
Macintx Member Posts: 118

My MO has given me the choice of AC-T (4 rounds AC, 4 rounds T) and TC (4 rounds.)  He said both are appropriate for my situation, and it's up to me and my husband which protocol to do.  I know that AC-T has been the "gold standard" for years, and that it has been proven to be effective in cases like mine.  On the other hand, TC is becoming more widely accepted, but it doesn't have the long term studies behind it, since it is a newer regimen.  So, I was wondering what led people to decide on one or the other regimen.  I don't have kids at home, and I don't currently work, so choosing TC just to lessen the total time of therapy isn't really a consideration.  

Comments

  • sheila888
    sheila888 Member Posts: 25,634
    edited February 2014

    Macintx....I wasn't really given a choice so i got 

    4 DD AC

    4 DD Taxol

    Radiation

    Herceptin for 1 year

    Why does MO feel you need to make a choice?

    good luck to you

    Hugs from NY

    Sheila

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    Well, he said that in the past, my situation would automatically call for AC-T.  But since there is a slight risk of heart problems later on from the Adriamycin (A) portion (very small risk, but it's there nonetheless) some doctors have started recommending TC only.  Apparently, nationwide, AC-T is more popular, but in my area, TC is recently more popular, mainly because the studies originated from doctors in the area (or something like that.)  But, I am concerned that TC hasn't been around as long so no one knows what the recurrence rate is after, lets say, 20 years.  I feel like he is leaning towards AC-T, but still wants me to make the decision.  

  • juneping
    juneping Member Posts: 1,594
    edited February 2014
  • sheila888
    sheila888 Member Posts: 25,634
    edited February 2014

    I think being HER+...... they wanted to give me the strongest chemo

    I also had a lumpectomy and was 8 months post menopausel when i was diagnosed so I was treated as PRE Menopause patient because it wasn't a full 1 year

    Good night  

  • YoungTurkNYC
    YoungTurkNYC Member Posts: 334
    edited February 2014

    I had 4 dose dense AC with Neupogen support and 12 weekly Taxol. I was 40 at diagnosis and wanted to maximize my chances of no recurrence.  ACT is still the gold standard.

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited February 2014

    Just to clarify - the AC-T regimen is Adriamycin/Cytoxan/Taxol, but when you say CT, is your MO offering Cytoxan and Taxol without the Adriamycin, or Taxotere/Cytoxan or Taxotere/Carboplatin?  This is an important distinction to make as they are very different drugs.  I have seen MOs offer AC-T, or Taxotere with one of the C drugs, or 12 Taxol, but not 4 Cytoxan and Taxol.

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    AC-T is Adriamycin/Cytoxan/Taxol and TC (oops- corrected my previous posts from CT) is Taxotere/Cytoxan.   I can't figure out how to edit the title of the topic.  The AC-T would be 4 rounds of AC every 3 weeks, and 4 rounds of T every 2 weeks. 

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited February 2014

    I don't know if you have seen this study, so I am linking it for you:

    http://news.cancerconnect.com/adjuvant-therapy-with-taxotere-and-cytoxan-improves-breast-cancer-outcomes/

    I had 6 cycles of Taxotere/Carboplatin/Herceptin, then an additional 11 cycles of Herceptin alone.  My oncologist will only prescribe Taxotere for those of us with Her2+ BC because of the cardiotoxicity associated with Herceptin, he feels that giving Adriamycin and Herceptin combines too much cardio risk.  I know he does prescribe AC-T for his Her2- patients.

    Your description of the timing of AC-T is the standard dose dense timing, but unless you are triple negative this drug regimen is not necessarily the "gold standard" for all types of BC.  Have you looked at the Taxotere/Cytoxan threads here on BCO?  It might be worth looking at some of those who have posted there to see if their stage/grade/receptors/Her2 status is similar to yours, as well as looking at the AC-T threads for the same.

  • Sam2U
    Sam2U Member Posts: 233
    edited February 2014

    Just to clarify--if Macintx is talking AC every three weeks, that is NOT dose dense is it?  I thought dose dense was AC every 2 weeks?

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    When I said it was the gold standard, I was just referring to my particular type (ER+/PR+/HER2-) because that is what my MO told me.  It's the regimen that doctors have been prescribing for years.  TC therapy hasn't been available or widely used nearly as long as AC-T.  Oh, I will also do radiation and hormone therapy after chemo.  I am 49 and pre-menopausal, so not sure if that factors into it.   I was just wondering if anyone else in my situation had to make this choice, and if so, what made them decide to go one way or the other.  I know convenience (shorter time of chemo) and cost might be two factors that some people use to decide, but I have really good insurance (deductible met, so plan pays 90%) and, like I said before, I have no reason to "hurry up" just to get it over with quicker.  I just want to come in guns blazing and do all I can to try to avoid a recurrence.  It's just hard to decide.  I guess I could pressure my MO to make the decision for me, but he seems to want me to decide.

  • momand2kids
    momand2kids Member Posts: 1,508
    edited February 2014

    Not sure this is helpful but I had AC 4x over 8 weeks and that was it--- that was at Dana Farber in Boston--- and a second opinion by MGH-- it was the standard of care--- I had ILC not IDC, but that is what we did....

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2014

    I was dx 2006 also at age 49 and had pathology as you describe for stage 2, 1.8cm DCIS/IDC (like a bull's eye), ER+100%, PR+100%, HERneg, 1/18 node.  I was NOT given a choice back then as you stated it was the "gold" standard.  I have a heart murmur and family hx of heart disease but I passed the MUGA scan.  So I was given DD treatment for 4 DD A/C followed by 4 DD Taxol.  I inquired about Taxotere and was told if I didn't tolerate Taxol he would switch me.  I had lumpectomy followed by radation and hormone treatments.  Rough journey but what matters is I'm still here.  Smile

    The next year 2007, a friend was also dx with large tumor, negative nodes, hormone receptors positive and she recieved 4 DD CT.

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    momand2kids, Could be the ILC as opposed to the IDC, or I wonder if being node negative made a difference.  I know everyone situation is different though.

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited February 2014

    sam2u - you are right DD is every two weeks, not 3

    macintx - would your AC be every 3 weeks or every two?  DD is usually how AC-T is done.  I have seen the TC combo every three weeks for either 4 or 6 cycles depending on the situation, and that is how my  6 TC-H was given.

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    AC every 3 weeks, and T every 2 weeks, both for 4 rounds each.

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited February 2014

    TC has been compared to AC in clinical trials and had slightly better results, but it has not been compared to AC+T.  There is a clinical trial underway currently comparing the 2.  Perhaps enrolling in that trial is cometyhing you might consider asking about.  I was goign to, but my tumor was too small sicne I had no lymph node involvement.  I did 4 rounds of TC because I have a heart murmur and did not want the added possibility of heart damage from the A.

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    cp418- Sounds like we had very similar cases.  I also had DCIS in the IDC like a bullseye!  Good analogy.  I go in for my echocardiogram next week to make sure my heart is healthy.  

    Kbeee- From what I've read and what the MO told me, the outcomes of AC-T vs. TC are almost identical statistically.  But, TC has only been out of trials for around 5 years I think) so they don't have data to compare outcomes in the long term (20 yrs or more.)  

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2014

    I had neuropathy in my feet for several years and taking daily walks has really helped.  Now only minimal pins/needles sensation and tolerable.  They said this residual sideffect is due to a gene for those of us who have this long term side effect.  If I recall 20-25% patients have it.

  • Macintx
    Macintx Member Posts: 118
    edited February 2014

    Seems like not many people get a choice and are just told by their MO what course to do. Plus,there aren't really any studies comparing the exact two regimens I have to decide between.  Most studies/trials are similar but just a bit different in scope of timing of dosages, etc.   I'm going in for my pre-chemo blood tests today, so I am hoping that I can pin him down on one or the other.  Maybe I will use the "what would you do if it was your wife/sister/daughter" tactic!  

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