Tamoxifen and Curcumin - my story of interaction....

Maggie - is it ok to drink homemade tumeric tea with Tamoxifen? Does it interact the same way as taking curcumin?  

I take Host Defense and Turkey Tail mushroom capsules by Fungi Perfecti.  I also make a mushroom tincture tea that includes Turkey Tail, Shitake, and other mushrooms.  I try to eat a cup of mushrooms a day.  

Check out www.fungi.com.  Paul Staments is Fungi Perfect founder and claims his mother had stage 4 bc - with the use of conventional bc therapies and Turkey Tail mushrooms - she continues to be NED.

Just curious---does all this information apply equally to curcumin as well as turmeric? Are they considered the same thing, at least for research purposes?

Lala, curcurmin is the active ingredient in turmeric so turmeric would be less strong or concentrated.  I found this on the livestrong site:

Turmeric contains approximately 2 percent curcumin by weight, so a tablespoon of turmeric, which weighs 6.8 grams, contains about 0.136 gram curcumin, or 136 milligrams.

PS note that Maggs supplement contained 300 mg turmeric (listed in her heading post).

This is an article I stumbled across the other day...... Preventing breast cancer: the important factors. Note what it says about the benefits of curcumin. Of course, this doesn't talk about it's affect on Tamoxifen.

bump

Fwiw...

Curcumin is an interesting topic with potential payoff, yet it's a bit confusing when discussing the combination of natural compounds like Curcumin with conventional treatment (Tamoxifen, AI, Chemo, etc).

Research evidence suggests Curcumin may be very beneficial for many cancers. It's non-toxic, inexpensive and theoretically can modulate multiple cell-signaling pathways known to be crucial for chronic diseases. However, in the realm of Breast cancer, the question is: Who really benefits?
I investigated this question for Hormone positive women taking Tamoxifen. I wanted to validate the interaction of Curcumin with hormone blocking drugs like Tamoxifen. In other threads, it's been mentioned that combination therapy can lead to unpredictable side effects. On webmd, under the "Interactions" tab "side effects & safety disclosure" for Curcumin & Tamoxifen, it says:
"Curcumin might act like the hormone estrogen. In theory, turmeric might make hormone-sensitive conditions worse. However, some research shows that turmeric reduces the effects of estrogen in some hormone-sensitive cancer cells. Therefore, turmeric might have beneficial effects on hormone-sensitive conditions. Until more is known, use cautiously if you have a condition that might be made worse by exposure to hormones."
WTH? Who writes this slop?

I emailed Dr. Bharat Aggarwal, Professor of Cancer Research at MD Anderson, asking him if curcumin would "block breast cancer pathways" and the interaction between Curcumin & Tamoxifen. He's a Curcumin research expert with years dedicated to the topic.

He replied back with research pdf's and did NOT directly answer my question.
He suggested taking: "8 grams curcumin per day; four times a day (2 grams each time with milk or yogurt); for at least three months before we conclude its efficacy. Gradually escalate the dose from 500 mg per day to 8 gram per day, only if needed. Side effect in some people (less than 1%) is Diarrhea. Bioperine makes no significant difference. Preclinical studies have shown that curcumin enhances the effect of most chemotherapeutic agents including Velcade, Revlimid, Cisplatin, 5FU, doxorubicin and others."
He included a link to his website, curcuminresearch.org, which looks like it was written when the internet was invented (it's a bit sloppy and hard to follow). He's obviously a major proponent of Curcumin and has made some bold claims. Watch what he says in the video: survivingterminalcancer.com
Skip ahead to the 28:30 minute and watch through the ~32:00 minute mark (it buffers quite fast). Assuming he's coming from a purely objective perspective, it's a fascinating response. But without large RCT's, most "by the book" oncologists will frown on his research findings.

For what it's worth, there's a 2012 research report that's been floating called "Tamoxifen and Curcumin binding to serum albumin". Here's the abstract: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022286012010642
The conclusions say that the "competition between Tamoxifen and Curcumin for the binding site on serum albumin can result in a decrease in bound fraction and potentiate the toxicity of Tamoxifen". I assume that means it's potentially unsafe.

It warrants more research.

Feb 2016 Update: I didn't realize this, but Dr. Aggarwal (the curcumin "expert") has been under investigation for a few years for sloppy research.
This month (Feb 2016), a number of his papers have been "retracted" because the data integrity has become questionable. Not good. This makes me question his curcumin research and is obviously not good for those that jumped on the curcumin "bandwagon".
Source: Journal retracts 7 papers by MD Anderson cancer researcher long under investigation

Hi,

Started Tamox as a preventative. I'm also taking bioavailable Curcumin and other supplements approved by my Oncologist. I've been reading lots of studies regarding Tamox. Specifically the liver SE's and how Curcumin works with Tamox.

My SO had to talk me off the ledge with the possible liver SE's but curcumin sounds promising. I don't know if anyone has read this study. Worth a look.

http://m.cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/69/24_Supplement/3098

This is a very interesting topic. I just literally hung up the phone with my pharmacist who said " Turmeric is very safe and has zero negative impact on Tamoxifen", I asked her specifically about the conflicting information on turmeric and it's potential to inhibit the enzymatic pathway of Tamoxifen, and she said there is no " evidence to prove this" I did note a study on PubMed, that turmeric may inhibit the thrombophilic properties of Tamoxifen. That was really the only interaction that stood out to me. It did not state that turmeric inhibits the bioavailability of Tamoxifen, but the assumption could be made that it can occur in those who metabolize Tamoxifen differently. So much conflicting information. I for one, have taken turmeric and note it does mediate inflammation powerfully for me. Theories abound that the cytokine mediated inflammatory processes are what begin normal cells to start behaving abberantly. I find this topic very important and will discuss with my MO. Perhaps it's a one or the other type of deal. But, knowing the part inflammation plays in cancer, It does bear more research, and less conflicting studies.