Reconstruction - would you do it the same way again?

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  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    Beesie, I thought the same thing when I read a previous post. There's like a 2% chance I think. I have never heard of mammograms after mastectomy. Really? I thought I would be done with them. How is it generally detected if there is a recurrence or new cancer after MX or BMX?

  • Moonflwr912
    Moonflwr912 Member Posts: 6,856
    edited December 2013


    hi all. Just stopping by to add my stiry. It's a hard choice to make and none of them give you your breasts back. You just get good sims! You do only have skin sensations. I am getting my exchange to saline implants next Wed. I have had the right TE in since 12-11. My left side is on my 3rd TE due to infections and cellulitis. So keeping my fingers crossed that 3rd times the charm x 3! Since 3 seems to be an important number. LOL


    Making that decision is hard and every person has reasons for some of the choices. I could not do silicon because I have a pacemaker and can't do the MRI. I can't do any of the flaps or DIEP because of past surgeries and they are very long sx and I am diabetic so those were out. I choose BMX because of family history which turned out to be the right choice because they found the IDC in my prophylacticly removed breast. I also had a scare this past summer with a large egg Size lump under my arm right up against the TE. It had to be ultrasound and they said they'd do a mammo if the radiologist needed it. So yes, mammo can be done after BMX. Thank goodness it was just a fat infiltrated lymph node. The SNB was done at the time of BMX because my P'S said that it is not possible to know which node is the sentinel node after the breast tissue is removed. So the new marking is genious! .


    I had assumed that the reconstruction would be the easy part. But it can be. And it might be. Hope I didn't scare you but so much depends on individual circumstances. In my case my P'S removed the implants right away. Many other P'S will try to save the implant and try antibiotics first. It just depends. Sorry for all that info. LOL

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    moonflwr, hope that 3rd times the charm for you. You guys will laugh at me, but only about half of what you all say makes sense to me. Lol! I suppose in a few months I'll be an expert too. :)

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013


    Jmb - I get yearly MRI's to check the breast area. Also, if I was doing it again I would think a little harder about doing the DIEP or no-recon. Diep isn't done in my area (much) and I would have had to go out of town for several weeks. But maybe it would have been worth it. My implants are fine, good even, they look great and I have no pain. I had no issues with surgery or healing. However sometimes I wonder what it would be like not to always feel my pecs flex. I am glad though that the implant is behind the muscle, so hopefully if I were to get a local recurrence I would find it early. Norecon is still attractive to me, but only if I could have a PS close the surgery.

  • LuvSnow
    LuvSnow Member Posts: 229
    edited March 2014


    I opted for SNS BMX with TE in February of this year; I have a personal history that put me at higher risk, plus a strong family history (mom, grandmother, etc) of young BCs. The TE were swapped for implants in June. I thought that would be it, but I am very uncomfortable with these implants (they feel like rocks), and can't stand how unnatural they look on me. I was not a candidate for the DIEP, and knew little of other recon options (other flap procedures). When I finally did some research I decided on a "re-do" with hip-flaps and a very small implant. I will be going to NOLA in Feb. So, would I do it the same way again? The BMX, absolutely. Reconstruction; I wish I had gone with a flap to begin with. I feel like I am starting from scratch, but I am young, and hoping to have a long life with these gals, so I want to be be comfortable and happy.


    (edited for typos)

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    I had my PS consult yesterday. I am too thin for the DIEP, so his recommendation is silicone implants, and because of my previous radiation, he recommends I also do the latissimus dorsi  flap reconstruction on the radiated side. So right now I'm taking that all in and reading up on the latissimus flap. Anyone have this procedure done?

  • lifegoeson
    lifegoeson Member Posts: 189
    edited December 2013


    In 2009, I had bilateral MX with LD flap reconstruction with tissue expanders. After some fills on the TEs, they were replaced by silicone implants 6 months after my original surgery.


    I would definitely not do the same surgery again. First of all, doing BMX and full reconstruction with flaps in one surgery was too much. I was under anesthesia for 14 hours. It took forever to get over the anesthesia and I had memory and cognitive issues for about a year. Nothing awful, but still very scary. 5 years out, I'm fine but I have very little memory of anything that occurred from the minute I went into surgery until about 2 weeks out. I have since done a lot of research on anesthesia and there is a maximum amount of time anyone should be under unless it's an emergency or a life saving situation. For MX and reconstruction, there is no reason to be under for 14 hours, there is too much risk. So if I had it to do over again, I would do the BMX first, then do the reconstruction as a separate surgery.


    As for the type of reconstruction, I wouldn't do LD flap again. I have much more back pain than I ever did before the surgery. If I go grocery shopping, just the lifting and putting things in the cart, then into the car, then into the house and putting them away, will give me a killer backache. That was not the case before my surgery. I was not told that chronic back pain is a risk of the surgery. The remaining muscles compensate for the loss of the LD muscle, but not fully, at least not in my case. I didn't think through what the consequences would be of losing a large muscle in my back.


    If I had it to do over, I'd go straight to implants. The LD flap over the implants gives my breasts a softness and natural look and feel that they wouldn't have without the flap, but I don't think it's worth it. I'd rather have my LD muscle in my back where it's supposed to be and just have implants. I also have bad scars on my back and can't wear low back bathing suits at all. The scars on my back are about 10 inches long each side, and are very noticeable, even now after 5 years. I hate them. My breasts look good but I would take a slightly less natural looking breast if I could have my unscarred back.


    So I guess my answer is - break the surgeries up into several procedures, and don't do LD flaps.

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    My PS said the surgery would take about 4 hours. He says my breast surgeon is the best and he couldn't say enough good about her. I wonder why yours took 14 hours. I thought it was the stomach surgeries that took the longest. Even from what I read on line it says the LD flaps take more like 4 hours. He recommended only do the LD flap on the left side to help with the radiated breast. That's where I run into trouble with discussing the reconstruction. I've probably got damage on the left side from radiation, so the LD flap will give me the best chance of success. I'm not really worried about the scars at all, but maybe I'll feel differently when I have them. He showed me pictures, and I didn't think they looked that bad.

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    I forgot to ask my PS, what tests will I have to have done in the future? Do all women need yearly MRI's with implants? How about with no implants? I hate all this medical debt. $3,000 yearly deductibles. I have $3,000 this year, and will add another $3,000 when I have surgery in January. I hate to think I'm going to be paying for MRI's every year.

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013

    The screening does seem to vary widely from what I can tell from these boards. Perhaps it is a regional thing. I'm in Oklahoma. At my center, you will never pay more than the cash price for an MRI. The last time I asked it was around $1200. My onc wants them yearly at least through year five, then she said we'd talk about every other after that. Works for me, because they can check the integrity of the implant then also. My PS said the recommendation on a PBM is every other year to check the implants.

  • Moonflwr912
    Moonflwr912 Member Posts: 6,856
    edited December 2013


    hi! I have saline implants just got my permanent ones yesterday. I did not choose any flap because I am diabetic and the 12 to 14 HR surgery would have been too much. I think it's that long when done during BMX as they have to do the bilateral and wait for pathology then they start on the flap. My BMX was 4 hours in or.and 3 hours in Recovery due go N&V. Much love

  • warmsmartcookie
    warmsmartcookie Member Posts: 40
    edited December 2013


    I was 48 for the second DCIS in situ. I was 50 pounds overweight and did a simultaneous TUG flap and BMX. What was I thinking? The docs whom I trusted talked about it like it was no big deal and the better choice to implants. They said I'd be back at work in 2 weeks--try 6 months!


    I would rather that I had the BMX and delayed reconstruction, or the BMX and TEs, nipple sparing. I think that was the safer and more effective option rather than two failed flaps, permanently damaged legs and lymphedema, impaired cognition from all the anesthesia, 11 pints of blood, acute renal failure, and quite frankly, a crashed career. There was a less invasive reconstruction option, and my PS steered me away from it. I know now that I should have gotten 2-3 more opinions from other PSs before going into surgery. My husband and I refer to my simultaneous reconstruction surgery as the unmitigated disaster that launched a thousand other health problems. Probably the most prudent action for me given my BMI would have been to have the BMX and TEs, and then go super slow toward implants while I lost the weight. AHHHHH HINDSIGHT!!!

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited December 2013


    I had a BMX, for stage 3 on one side, prophylactic on the other (although LCIS was found on the path). My doctor asked me to wait 2 years before starting reconstruction. At first it felt quite scary, but I figured it would give me time to think and research, find the right doc etc. I am now 2 years out and have been cleared to go ahead, but I am fine the way I am and doubt I will ever get new boobs installed. So, in a way I am really glad that I was forced to wait.

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    warmsmartcookie, I am so sorry for all you've had to go through! Did they give you a good reason for doing the TUG flap instead of a DIEP or some other kind? I read that the TUG isn't done much and is only if the others aren't good options because of previous abdominal surgery, etc. I am feeling like I definitely need to get a second opinion, just for peace of mind. My PS recommends the LD flap to help the radiated breast, but doesn't think I need it on the other side. I would get TE's and then permanent silicone implants later.


  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    Warmsmartcookie, did you have radiation with your first DCIS? If so, did the PS say anything about the LD flap helping with the radiated breast?

  • lifegoeson
    lifegoeson Member Posts: 189
    edited December 2013


    In addition to the BMX and reconstruction, I also had sentinel node biopsies on both sides, and both breasts and the SNBs were sent to pathology during my surgery, which takes time.


    My surgeon explained that my surgery took so long because of the procedures in the OR. They treat it like 4 separate surgeries - each mastectomy and each reconstruction gets a full sterile procedure and OR protocols. First they do the MX on one side. Then they count the sponges, get a full new sterile set of instruments and whatnot, and do some other quality control/infection preventing procedures in the OR before starting on the second mastectomy. They only have one side exposed at a time - while they were operating on my right side, the left side was draped, and vice versa, which lessens the chance of infection. So then after both mastectomies and SNBs were completed and the path results were back, they were ready to proceed with the reconstruction. That is a different surgical team and my breast surgeon then left and my PS and his assistants started their job. They did LD on one side of the back, then placed that LD flap and tissue expander on the one side. Then a full count again of sponges and various OR protocols to prevent infection and to to make sure they can close the wounds. Then the second LD flap and tissue expander. So the doctors are not working the whole time, there are other things going on, but when you think about all of it, it makes sense that it takes 14 hours. If you read recent articles about the rising rate of hospital based infections, there is good reason to take the time and take extra steps to try to prevent infection. But 14 hours under anesthesia is too much and if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done it all at the same time.

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    lifegoeson, thanks for the info. Definitely things I want to research. My PS said around 4 hours, and talked about how the belly flaps are the ones that are so long. This is definitely making me want a second opinion to ask another PS his opinion and about length of surgery. I already have back pain, as I have a degenerated disc. I've had pain for years. Wonder how the LD flap will affect that.  

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited December 2013


    My staged bilat DIEP ended up being 14 hours, but that was because the blood supply on one side was really entwined with the muscle, and it took my PS that long to tease it out without having to cut the muscle. I was fortunate in that I was in good health otherwise and tolerated the long anesthesia well. I actually appreciate her taking the time to tease out the blood supply - I think a less talented/experienced surgeon might have decided it wasn't worth the effort and just cut the muscle to get the blood supply, essentially turning my DIEP into a TRAM. Because of her patience and willingness to take the time, my ab muscles remained intact. I have no issues at all with ab muscles, and can do crunches, planks, and any other core or abdominal exercise with no issues. But my case is extremely unusual - most bilat DIEPs run 8 hours at the most.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited December 2013
  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    Yes, Beesie. I just found it this afternoon and started reading through some of the posts. There are a lot to go through. Thank you!

  • Erica3681
    Erica3681 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited December 2013


    I hope that in the case of most of you, your breast surgeon at least mentioned the possibility of no reconstruction as an alternative to reconstruction. I considered reconstruction and one of the main things that decided me against it was the length of time I'd have to remain under anesthesia and the prospect of repeated surgeries, since revisions are often necessary. I'd had radiation on one side, so implants alone weren't an option for me--that meant some kind of flap surgery for sure.


    After my experience, I realized that very little information is available online about the option of not reconstructing (other than the Living Without Reconstruction forum here), so I started a non-profit website, BreastFree.org, to provide information and advice. Over the years, I've met many women like Momine (who posted above), women who for various reasons delayed their reconstruction and then discovered they were happy without it.


    I usually don't post on this forum and have NO objection to reconstruction, just want women to be aware of ALL their options.


    By the way, jmb5, there have been some posts here about a new concept in implant reconstruction, which involves injecting autologous fat cells into the radiated side BEFORE implant reconstruction. This seems to help the radiated side handle the implant much better. If I wanted reconstruction, this is something I'd look into. Perhaps it's worth asking your PS about.





  • thatsvanity
    thatsvanity Member Posts: 391
    edited December 2013


    If I were to do my one step PBMX nipple sparing mastectomy, I would have still had the same procedure but I would have had a slightly smaller implant the first time so the skin could acclimate heal and get used to the implants(not tissue expanders) then I would go back six months later and have larger implants put in and then have any revisions done at that time.

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    For those of you who have had bilateral mastectomies and only had cancer on one side, did insurance pay for the whole thing? I called my insurance company to ask a few questions, and they said that they will only pay for it if it's a medical necessity. So does that mean they won't cover the one removed prophylactically? I also asked about future yearly MRI's, and she said it is no longer considered preventative once my breasts are removed, so I have to pay for it. With a $3,000 deductible, that means I'm basically paying out of pocket for an MRI every year. I am sick about all the medical debt.

  • LAstar
    LAstar Member Posts: 1,574
    edited December 2013


    jmb5, there is a law that insurance had to cover a MX on the other side or surgery for symmetry. My insurance Co hassled me about some of my reconstruction being experimental (my hospital's attorneys are dealing with this and I will not have to pay any of this), but they did cover the prophylactic MX without any issue.


    I have had complications with my flap reconstruction (scar tissue necrosis) that will require probably two more surgeries to complete. Reconstruction is a commitment! My results look great and I think having a BMX was easier for me to deal with when I could wake up with breasts. I have big hips and have always appreciated my bust for balancing me out. Surgery is no picnic, and I wonder sometimes if i have would have been just fine not reconstructing. I am invested in the process now and look forward to getting to the finish line, but if someone had told me then that I would have 4 reconstructive surgeries, I might have opted for one MX instead.

  • jmb5
    jmb5 Member Posts: 532
    edited December 2013

    I am so glad I followed the advice of all you ladies. I got a PS second opinion today. The first PS recommended the LD flap and implants... he prefers to do implants and doesn't do the DIEP flap at all, which is initially the one I was most interested in. The PS I saw today said I do have enough belly for the BMX, although my breasts will be the same size or a bit smaller than they are now. I was hoping to go the same size or a bit larger (I'm a small B cup), but I'm okay with a bit smaller if I can use my own tissue. I was never happy about the prospect of additional implant surgeries in my future. (I am 44.) She also said she can do some fat grafting and help me be a little bigger. I really liked this PS. She and my BS are close friends and seem to have a great rapport. I am going to do a little more reading about the DIEP, but I am thinking this is the way I'm going to go. I know the surgery is longer and the recovery is more difficult, but I like the long term outcome better.

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited December 2013

    Hooray for second opinions!! 

  • Sooty
    Sooty Member Posts: 5
    edited September 2014

    I choose a DEIP flap for my uni-MX recon. I wanted to do immediate reconstruction with the MX but one lymph node tested positive, so recon was delayed for a month. The DIEP operation took ~14 hours. It failed a few hours later and I was back in OR for another 5-ish hours. The flap was removed and a TE inserted. The TE was removed a week later - another hour or so in the OR. My chest was so beaten up by then it rebelled, plus I think the TE was too wide for my chest cavity (I'm 4'10" and short torso'd). My DIEP flap failed because of my anatomy - the "plug in" vein collapsed. I didn't have any problems being under anesthesia so long. My PS was thinking of doing a TUG flap next time using the thoracodorsal artery - larger vein that runs down the side of the torso, but a year later he conservatively performed an LD flap with a smaller TE under both the flap and chest muscle.  

    I choose the DIEP flap because I'm very active and did not want any muscle degradation. I would go for the TUG flap, but given my anatomy that choice probably didn't have a high success rate. The LD flap was my next best choice.

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