Lumpectomy area decision for DCIS

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percy4
percy4 Member Posts: 477

I'm worried about something.  When my calcs first showed, (that area stereotactically biopsed later), the radiologist said the area was upper, outer breast.  Report after biopsy said calc area had been upper, outer breast, 6 cm. from nipple.  Surgeon goes by the clip, which can migrate.  MRI now shows clip 4.5 cm. from nipple, at 12 o'clock.  12 o'clock isn't outer, it's right in middle.  The difference between 4.5 cm. and 6 cm. is about an inch.  I think the surgery is MRI guided, on which calcs can't be seen.  How is this possible, to get the right area?  If surgery was mammo-guided instead, it would seem she'd see both the calcs and the clip, see which way it had migrated, and make a better estimate of where to do it, but she's going by the clip.  This upsets me, as it sounds like it could be off and result in bad margins on one or two sides, and possibly re-excision.  I can't TELL her to do a mammo-guided surgery; she does the one she does.   Have not put this to her really directly; did express concern that clip isn't where calcs were said to have been, but she basically said don't worry, she knows what she's doing (and she IS good; great rep).  Still, this makes no logical sense.  I have small breasts, and if they have to re-excise, won't be much left.  Am composing last few questions for pre-op email she's expecting.  What do you think, and what would you say?  I get the feeling that if I say I'm too concerned about this difference, she may just do a really unneccesarily large lumpectomy from the beginning.  Help!

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  • Annette47
    Annette47 Member Posts: 957
    edited November 2013


    Honestly, I think at some point you just have to trust that your surgeon knows what she's doing. And if you can't feel confident doing that, then maybe it's an indication that you need to find someone you're more comfortable with. ((HUGS))

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Thanks, Annette, you make a good point.  I AM comfortable with her, and I know I'm not doing the surgery on myself, nor should I try to micro-manage it.  I have seen in Life, though, that even people who are great at what they're great at don't notice some things, sometimes, and it can help to point it out.  It can also hurt to do so.  Guess getting really near to the actual procedure is getting to me.  Being my own advocate, I don't want to miss anything.  Maybe it's my way of, while doing valuable research, keeping it technical instead of emotional for me.  One thing I may need is a good cry.  I've been really busy making sure my adult childtren, aging  parents, etc., are not too worried.  Maybe I should just find the bra, stock up on the groceries and treats and movies and books, wash my beddings so they feel/smell nice after, and get on with it. xx

  • Annette47
    Annette47 Member Posts: 957
    edited November 2013


    Having been through it, I can tell you that it really isn't that bad. The incision from the sentinel node biopsy (since they already knew I had a microinvasion) was much more painful than the one from the lumpectomy itself. I had a bad reaction to pain killers they gave me afterwards, but other than that it was an uneventful recovery. I'd say within 24 hours I was itching to be up and moving and back to normal life, although I still had to be careful of how I moved my arm for a few days. I even went back to running a week later (although I had the girls strapped in TIGHT).


    The waiting and anticipating was by far worse than the reality, so you are in the worst part of it now ... it WILL get better! Oh, and I know what you mean about needing a good cry - I didn't take one though until about 5 months after finishing radiation. I was just too busy because along with my own cancer, my mother had been diagnosed 6 weeks prior and had a mastectomy, then a couple of weeks before I was diagnosed my then 12 year old daughter shattered two of her fingers and needed surgery and months of rehab. We were planning her Bat Mitzvah at the same time as all of this was going on, which was held 3 weeks after I finished radiation. Looking back, I have no idea how I held it together, but I did, and I am fine now (fingers crossed as I have a mammo on Wednesday) and in a few months you will be looking at it all through the rearview mirror too!

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Thank you.  I know I will have to adapt, in the best of circumstances.  And, you're right.  Life goes on.  I am dealing with my Mother's health stufff, my sister's (many) problems, money, etc.  The good thing about this is that you realize you're still here, still valuable, and though this diagnosis and treatment is a b****, you will be you, and still are.  I cannot, and could not, have gotten through even to what I've gotten through to this stage (BEFORE treatment) nearly as well without this forum.  It has saved my sanity.   And, speaking of judgements, my daughter, who's been "OK" through this, kind of pursed her lips at Thanksgiving dinner last night, and asked me if I wasn't grateful to not be stage 4.  Well; yes I am, but this from a girl who has complained to me the last 15 years about he "shape" of her lovely breasts.  I'd like to see how she would deal with it, if a quarter of her breast was being taken.  Always been a good girl, has had a lot of hard stuff lately, but if you can believe this, she "forgot" my surgery date, on which I was hoping she's spend the night, and scheduled a retreat  (can't be reached) on that day.  A little hurt.  Yes, I live alone, and have a son who can take a ferry over, if I bleed or anything, if I need him, and lovely neighbor ladies who will keep their phones turned on that night.  But, still; a RETREAT?  I'm beginning to think the "retreat" she needs is to remember that charity begins at home.  Just stuff; just pre-op stuff, because I'm unhappy that I will come home different, and then have to wait 2 days for path report.  Even the cat has died.  Kids; you can't live without them, and you can't kill them.  Just kidding. xx - P.

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Yes; some of you may have figured out that I'm a writer.  Would love to write about this experience, except that about 1000 women brighter than I am have already done so.

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Annette -  I will think of you and pray for you about Wednesday.  Hadn't even thought of future screenings, but can see they will be hard.  I have a very good feeling yours will be OK.  And I am a little psychic.  More importantly, it's clear that no matter what the results are, you will find a way to be OK.  But it will be all-clear.  I just know it. P.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited November 2013


    Percy, there are many here who will say that your daughter is just scared and that's why she's acting the way she is. Maybe that's true, and maybe that is the reason, but the way I see it, sometimes you just have to step up to the plate. I'm sorry that your daughter is not being more supportive. You deserve better from her.


    I'm assuming your surgery is day surgery? How are you planning to get home? My hospital wouldn't release me without someone being there to pick me up, and they also had me sign off that I would not be spending that first night alone. That's not the rule everywhere, but whenever I've been put under general anesthesia for day surgery, that's always been the rule around here. The concern, I believe, is the possibility of a bad reaction to the anesthesia and an inability to call for help. You should find out what the rules are at your hospital before you go in for the surgery.

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Guess I shoud have headed this topic as "Worried".

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Thanks, Beesie, for chiming in.  Do you have any opinion about my original concerns on this Topic (about the surgery)?  So.  No.  While, of course, the hospital needs to know who would take me home, the idea of someone spending the first night was mine.  Hematoma, excessive bleeding, grief, or anything that might happen.  It was mine, and I thought my girl might do it, but she forgot the date.  I never forgot even one of her dates in Life, from a school play, to when she had to drive off from her home after her divorce.  So, yes, I'm hurt.  I do have back-ups, as I said; just not in the house if I wake up upset.  I will deal.  A single mother forever, I've learned how to "deal".  I just don't know what to expect.  I'll be fine.  I have you-all. xx

  • percy4
    percy4 Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013

    Thinking about the anesthesia possibilities, I now think I WILL ask my son to take the ferry over and sleep on the floor.  I don't want to be alone the first night.  I remember SEVERAL nights when I had to stay up with him (BAD teenager; great man, after all).  He won't forget my surgery date.  Boy.  I hate this.

  • ballet12
    ballet12 Member Posts: 981
    edited November 2013


    Hi Percy, I'll just make a couple of comments about the surgery situation, and pardon me if I sound a little incoherent (quite tired from all the Thanksgiving festivities). I believe that with DCIS, they do wire localization surgery using the calcifications and the clip as a guide. They know the original location of the clip because, after all, this is a digital mammogram, so the exact coordinates are available. They can tell if the clip has migrated or not. In my case, they did determine that the clip had migrated, so they ignored the clip, found the calcifications on the old and new mammograms (new one done that day), and then did a wire localization surgery based on those coordinates. The clip is still in me, after the original lumpectomy and two re-excisions. In your case, since the MRI was clear (right?), I can't imagine that the surgeon would be using the MRI to guide her. I would think that she would be using the mammogram. I could certainly be wrong, but you should ask about this. Now, if you had such a tiny area of calcs, that they were totally removed during the biopsy (it sometimes happens), then they do go by the clip and/or by the original location of the calcs alone, if the clip has migrated. Usually it doesn't migrate, but it sometimes does.


    My comments on the daughter situation. I don't know why your daughter forgot the surgery date. It could be she was frightened, or it could be that she didn't quite get the gravity of the situation. I think that others don't always fully grasp our situation unless they attend the medical appointments with us.


    I'm glad that your son will be with you the first night. Usually lumpectomies go pretty well, and the anticipation is worse that the actual event. I hope that is true for you, as well.

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited November 2013


    I agree with Ballet, and would add that when I had my wire localization excisional biopsy, which is essentially the same surgery as a lumpectomy, there really wasn't much to recover from. I was totally awake very shortly. Not much pain at all. An ice pack helped. We filled my pain rx, but I think I only took one, then just an Aleve or two the next day. As to deformity of your breast, I have pretty small breasts and they took a golf ball sized chunk out of mine and after it totally healed the only way I can even tell is that I have a slight indentation when my arm is raised straight up over my head.

  • LAstar
    LAstar Member Posts: 1,574
    edited November 2013


    Percy, I think it's great that you voiced your concerns to your surgeon. If she was not aware of the possible clip movement before, she is now and you can rest easy that you said something. We have to advocate for ourselves, and I felt more confident about my treatment when I did my own research and discussed issues with my surgeons. Best wishes!

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