August 2013 Surgeries

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  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    Thanks everyone for your words of support and encouragement.  I’ve been quiet; I went to work on Wed and my world was shaken to the core and I’ve not yet recovered (and I’m not sleeping more that 2 hours a night and am so thoroughly exhausted and fatigued – I didn’t think a body could take so much but apparently it can, and it sucks!).

    I went to work on Wed and literally sat there for 4 hours in the morning trying to figure out how to do my job.  It’s like my memory had been partially erased; that’s really the only way I can explain it.  When my co-worker went to lunch, I completely lost it and just started balling my head off.  I was so frustrated I couldn’t remember such simple day-to-day things and it has me very scared for what the future holds w/the rest of my treatments.  My MO and I briefly discussed what I had read about “chemo brain” but it was my understanding it was like a “little forgetful” – I felt completely and totally blindsided by what was happened, completely unprepared, just very, very scary.

    I went to see a Lymphedema specialist yesterday but after sitting in the waiting room for 40 minutes I got annoyed and we left.  Got home and hopped online and saw I went to the wrong clinic – shows you how bad my head is functioning.  My lack of being able to function did not escape my employer; they have encouraged me to stay home and just try to rest as best I can (we are hoping it is just complete and utter fatigue and not some really bad SE of chemo).  They said, after I sent them an email on Thurs explaining how I felt like such an idiot at work and felt guilty for getting paid to be stupid, that they noticed how I was having such a difficult time trying to do anything on Wednesday.  I took 2 sleeping pills last night but was up again after 3 hours.  So it’s been a bad week.

    Been in contact w/my PCP and MO nurse today – we are going to try different sleeping meds tonight in hopes of getting some sleep beyond 2-3 hours.  If it does not work, they gave me additional options to try tomorrow night.  I did have to take steroids for 2 extra days on Monday and Tues per MO directions to assist w/the horrible bone/joint pain so I could understand not sleeping well those nights (I did take Benadryl Tues night but it did nothing).  This type of insomnia is, again, nothing I had read about or was prepared for…some problems sleeping because of steroids, yes.  But still not being able to sleep beyond 3 hours a night WITH sleeping medications over a week after chemo – I never read anything like that. 

    Gotta ask any of you ladies who are/have done chemo – is there a polite way to tell people to PLEASE STOP ASKING IF I’M PUSHING THE FLUIDS?  Geez, am I tired of being asked and don’t know how to tell people to please stop asking every day!

    Poodle-Mum – I am so happy you have your new-found eating abilities!!!  I know it felt so good to me when I put on 10 pounds in a month (I use Protein Bars….they work very well and my husband and daughter had gotten all sorts for me to try and I picked out a few I really liked and they certainly helped put on the weight!) so I can really appreciate your happiness in being able to eat and actually enjoying it!  Oh, and on the Protein Bar issue…I also make sure I’m eating those that are not only high in Protein, but high in calories.  Gotta do what I can to get my weight back up.  You might want to look into them so if you’re not up to eating (or even preparing) a meal, it’s easy to grab one or two and fill your tummy up.

    Your healing seems to be coming along – slowly but surely.  It all takes time and you had so many problems it makes sense to me it would require a longer healing time.

    One day at a time, right, Poodle-mum?  One day at a time…..

    VintageGal – I know what you are saying….I don’t know what is chemo related and what is Nuelasta related (except the bone/joint pain – I’m confident that was the Neulasta).  Have your flu like symptoms gotten better after further treatments or was this just the beginning for me?  And how long have you been kept down after each treatment?  I just feel that being over a week past chemo I should be feeling so much better than I am…..

    Also, if you or anyone else can explain what the mouth sores are I’d appreciate it.  I have some sore like feelings along the sides of my mouth back by the molars but since I’ve been stressed and have been known to grind my teeth when sleep when stressed, I don’t know if it is that or if it is the mouth sores I read about.  They don’t hurt which makes me wonder if I’ve just been grinding my teeth and the skin on the sides of my mouth getting caught in the grinding.  Everyone seems to speak of mouth sores as painful and mine are definitely NOT painful.

    KBeee – that would be great if you could just do 4 treatments!  I hope your oncotype score comes back such that only 4 are needed (and then we can all do a happy dance for you!).  That would mean 1 more treatment – gosh, would that be nice!!!!

    You mentioned previously that your legs feeling like cement (after the Run) may have had something to do with your hemoglobin, is that right?  Have you thought to perhaps try Blood Builder to bring your hemoglobin back up and perhaps get some relief from your “cement” legs?  I’m really happy it brought my numbers up so quickly this past month so I could begin chemo just being right below the normal limits; usually have not gotten such quick results but sure am happy I did.  Just throwing it out there – I love Blood Builder and wonder why more doctors don’t know about it to recommend it to their patients!  Word needs to get out about that stuff – too many of us cannot take those gross black pills that are iron supplements (yuck!) w/o putting so much pain in our stomach…..

    Wrenn – see, nothing to worry about in the whole TN timetable debate.  You can get chemo beyond 12 weeks and it can be very effective.  Remember, none of us have any guarantee chemo will work for us; doesn’t matter if someone starts 2 weeks post-op or 15 weeks post-op…sometimes it just doesn’t work.  So glad you got that issue resolved!  I think if your wound is NOT closed by that that time, it is probably healed mostly on the inside where it is most important (and KBeee could prob talk about that better – I’m far from any EMT or medical professional but I do believe it is normal for wounds to heal from the inside out). But can you tell us why you opted to not just try to start chemo now?  If he said you could, and given your past concerns about getting it started, I guess I would have thought you might opt to start asap.

    Let me know what metaplastic carcinoma is – you said you’ll be researching it more…I know nothing about it but am interested in learning and knowing how it affects you personally and your treatments.

    There’s a lot of crud going around, virus-wise.  Did you talk to MO about that?  I thought I had a bad cold but when I saw MO before chemo, I found out my chest and lungs were clear (and I had been trying for a week w/an expectorant to clear out what wasn’t even there) and the problem was just so much post-nasal drip from allergies.  Easy solution – Sudafed to dry it up.  Your cold might be something like that.  Also, might you add a Probiotic to your daily supplements (w/your MO approval first).  My MO actually asked me to start taking them (she told me to make sure I get the refrigerated ones because when they are not refrigerated, the stuff starts dying and then is not effective) since I know entering cold and flu season is going to be very difficult for me where I work (co-workers all around are not the best at keeping their germs to themselves…not to mention the public interaction!).  She said when she started having her young child take a Probiotic (he’s in daycare and was always getting sick) he’s been much more healthy and is hardly ever picking up viruses anymore.  It’s an easy thing to add and I’m taking one every day.  I even told my daughter about it and pleaded with her to pick some up.  She’s one of those who refuses to get a flu shot and had suffered w/pneumonia 2 winters ago….I can’t MAKE her understand the importance of a flu shot but she was open to taking the Probiotic and has begun taking it daily.  Just something you might want to think about.

    I agree w/KBeee as well as far as doctors are concerned.  Regarding Claritin….Wrenn, ask him if he has any problems with you taking it.  It is, in general, a very safe allergy med that is sold OTC.  If he has no problem with it and you want to try it based on all you’ve read and heard, then by all means try it!  Your MO sounds like a reasonable man and doesn’t sound like he thinks himself so high and mighty that he would be offended w/you using Claritin if you think it might help (and who cares if he is offended.  In the end, the decision is yours and not his).  Also, I think ALL doctors don’t like the fact that many of us have the ability to research our issues online and ask a lot of questions but I find that at least w/my MO, she seems happy I have gained the knowledge I have and ask the questions I do.  I think it tells her I understand what she is telling me and that she can feel confident something is not being misinterpreted.  Wish more doctors were like her!  And I don’t understand how anyone can put so much faith in a doctor to not bother asking questions….that just seems so foreign to me and I wonder if those people just don’t want to be bothered. 

    And regarding Claritin – I think I’m one of those unfortunate that don’t get relief from it.  And according to my MO, it’s not because I’ve used it long term.  She said that med does not work that way.  So there are those of us who don’t get relief (which is why there is a national medical study being done on the subject right now) but you need to find out for yourself.

    Jo – I do the same thing, and have done so for 10 years.  Ever since the headaches started, I was always so afraid I’d miss something one of the specialists was telling me I had my husband w/me at every appointment.  That second set of ears is a necessity, in my opinion.  And w/cancer…well the moral support goes w/out saying. 

    Babs – I will definitely be asking MO if there is something else besides Claritan.  If I recall what I had read about the studies and research on this subject, there is an alternative (Naproxen I think it was which is weird since that’s an NSAID).  I could be wrong….but I am asking.  That was Hell Week – just like Honeybair said!!!!!  I guess I had in my head 5 days max for feeling so terrible….was not prepared for 9 days!

    Honeybair – what is the recipe for Baking Soda/Salt Mixture?  I may have asked before, but I can’t remember.  I have, as you did, made the “batch” of salt water rinse.  I keep the bottle by the coffeemaker and little Dixie cups up by the coffee cups.  Reminder every time I grab a cup of coffee (mostly decaf – just so everyone knows caffeine is NOT what is keeping me from sleeping but I LOVE the taste of coffee….not that it tastes like it should after chemo but that’s another story) I pour my salt water mixture in a cup and start swishing as I walk to the bathroom to finish the exercise.

    Hope everyone is doing well.  As always, you are all in my thoughts and prayers!


  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November 2013


    I was worried about you Lisa since you haven't posted in a bit. I'm sorry it's been rough. I hope you will stay home and rest. I think it is worth it in the long run even if you have to catch up financially eventually. I hope it turns around for you soon.


    I think the reason I didn't want to start now is because I am feeling sick with the cold and I want to be at my best when I start because I don't trust myself to not quit chemo if side effects are bad. I think because I am sick already I might attribute anything negative to chemo and quit. Truthfully, I am not 100% convinced that I want to do chemo and I am working on that. I am not sure it is worth it and I feel guilty admitting that since so many people insist that it must be done. I feel like someone will think I am suicidal if I opt out so I want to be sure I am feeling strong going in since it won't take much for me to walk away from it.


    My MO is one of the top guys here and is reasonable but insists using Claritin doesn't make sense. He is also very casual too so wouldn't care if I took it but just doesn't believe it would do anything. I will check to see how it affects blood pressure since mine is high and I will use it. He has said to take ativan or clonazepam when I want for anxiety too.


    I am fed up with not feeling well. I never get colds and so I know I am run down. I am also nauseous all the time (stopped the blood builder yesterday in case it was that but will take it again today since nausea is still there without it). I am sick of having a dressing pulling on my chest and itching because of the tape. I am sick of having home care come in to pull out icky packing and repack. I want some energy. I keep hoping that I will start to feel stronger and go into chemo with a gung ho attitude saying "I can do this" but right now I don't feel energetic enough to do that.


    In the past I could fix things by determination. I could easily lose weight by focusing and could get rid of arthritic pain by focusing on icing and avoiding certain foods but I feel like no matter what I try I am still feeling shitty.


    I think this might just be one of those days so I apologize for whining again. At least I have learned from here that things do come and go in waves and it WILL get better.


    Sending hugs and hope for everyone. xo

  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November 2013


    Forgot to mention the metaplastic (MBC) feature of my tumour. I read this:


    "There are little data that standard breast cancer chemotherapy regimens utilized for IDC are effective for women with MBC. Compared to stage-matched women with IDC, those with MBC receiving adjuvant chemotherapy have poor survival. Nevertheless, 33%–86% of MBC patients receive chemotherapy and are, in fact, twice as likely to receive chemotherapy as similarly matched patients with IDC [8, 11, 19]. Single institution retrospective studies and genomic profiling suggest that these tumors are largely chemoresistant [19]. A report from the Mayo clinic detailed 27 patients treated at their center over 20 years in which 33% received chemotherapy. Ten different regimens were used, resulting in one partial response [11]. This resistance to chemotherapies is likely a product of the complex genetic and nongenetic mechanisms within MBC that result in phenotypically diverse subclones and intratumoral heterogeneity."


    That's from NIH and makes me think I should just trust that the cancer is gone thanks to BMX.

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    Wrenn,

    That kind of puts a different spin on things, doesn't it?  Did you discuss what you read at NIH w/MO?  Does it change your recurrence percentages? 

    I see your dilemma and better understand your thoughts on chemo now.  But I thought in the past you only had IDC.  Having that further info certainly has to be taken into consideration but I'm interested in what your MO said about it.

    I wish so badly you could heal, Wrenn.  I cannot imagine having to deal with all that, day after day, for so long.  It doesn't seem fair and I know I can say that because I think you've probably said it to yourself over these last months...perhaps many times, right?  Do you have access to any complimentary care there in Canada?  Like massage or acupuncture?  Maybe getting weekly massages could help your body relax and speed up healing?  I got temp relief from headaches w/acupuncture and know many people who have been helped by it, is that something you might consider if it is available? 

    You know, when a person is sick...it seems everyone around them becomes a "doctor" and has something they want you to use because they "know" it will help you feel better.  I prefaced that with this info....my sister-in-law gave me a bottle of Silver Hydrosol and says she uses it on everything.  I took it to my MO visit the day of chemo and asked if it was OK to use and MO looked at ingredients and said it was perfectly fine.  I was told to use it on any cuts I might get; that it makes the healing much, much faster (don't ask me how...but MO seemed fine with it so I'm going on the theory that Silver does in fact assist in healing) and I wondered if it might be something you could use.  Of course, if you are still draining it might not be a good idea as you need to keep the wound open but perhaps once it starts to close you could get some benefit from this.  I think she purchases this at Vitacost....and if so, then I believe it would probably be available in any health food/supplement store you have in the area. 

    I feel so bad for you.  I know you have many here praying for you; I just wish things would speed up.  Once that darn wound heals I'm thinking your attitude will change and become much more positive.  Know that I keep you in my prayers daily!

  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November 2013


    Lisa my wound is packed with silver antimicrobial tape.


    I did ask the MO about that NIH article and he said that they don't know if Any chemo works until they see whether the cancer returns. I got the impression that treating triple neg was as much of a crap shoot as treating metaplastic but he still quotes me percentages of 30 percent recurrence without any chemo and 20 percent with. It doesn't look like a lot of research has been done on metaplastic. There was even something i read saying they think chemo used for lung cancer works better for it since it is sarcomatous. I actually thought "oh well maybe i will get rid of this when i get treated for lung mets" i am losing my mind and can't even blame chemo brain


    I actually live in a neighbourhood where there are tons of alternative medicine clinics happening and some of it is covered by my benefits. I have still been too uncomfortable or feeling vulnerable with chest wound to seek anything out. Ativan and relaxation apps help a bit.


    MO also says "you may already be cured". I had very wide margins and neg nodes. He said there is a 70 percent chance it is gone and won't be back

  • honeybair
    honeybair Member Posts: 746
    edited November 2013


    Lisa, the baking soda salt recipe is 1/4 tsp soda and 1/8 tsp salt mixed with 1 cup of warm water. After rinsing with this mixture, rinse with plain water So the ratio is 2 parts soda to one part salt. I made a dry mixture and kept it by my kitchen sink. It worked and I developed no sores.


    I was told to take Claritin and Aleve together on the day before the Neulasta shot and for 2 days afterward. That worked. I had no Neulasta pain after doing that.


    .


    As far as being able to go to work, I don't know how anyone undergoing the harsh chemo that you are on right now could possibly go to work. These chemicals are brutal and there is no way to describe how bad you feel while on them. Plus your immune system is compromised and you have to be extra vigilant to avoid everything out there.


    Those steroids are preventing you from sleeping. After each chemo session, I was awake at 3 am until bed time the next night. My very brilliant and wonderful radiation oncologist has told me to take Benedryl, two 25 mg tablets, as sleeping medication. She says it is safe and very effective. I have had and am still having sleep problems particularly since starting radiation.


    For all of you undergoing chemo now, my heart and prayers are with you. We all get side effects, some of us more than others, and we are all different in how our bodies react. I could not eat much while on chemo and everything smelled terrible to me. My taste has returned and I enjoy food again. I have drastically changed what I eat and how it is prepared in hopes of remaining cancer free.


    Sorry you and Wren are having such a hard time. My thoughts are with both of you.

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    HoneyBair - thanks for the recipe.  Now, can you tell me why MO's tell some to use the recipe w/Baking Soda and some say to just use the Salt?  My infusion nurse told me to use the salt water mixture but if the recipe w/Baking Soda is more effective, that's what I'd like to change to.

    Regarding Neulasta side effects - I can't take Aleve or any other OTC Ibuprofen product.  I've been a long term NSAID user (arthritis in the neck and pinched nerves in the lumbar spine) and cannot use anything on top of that.  And the Loratadine (Claritan) just did not offer any relief.  BUT...I'm hoping (and praying) that this next time is not as bad.  The thought being that the first time is the worst in that the bone is being "stretched".  After that first time, with the bone having just recently been "stretched", it is not as painful when it is "stretched" again.  It was horrible pain; I really pray it will not be replayed.

    I've had to do a lot of soul searching...my mind still feels so foggy and unable to function.  After discussions w/husband, daughter and PCP I think I'm going to see if I can get on disability.  I missed 6 days of work after just one treatment and although I know there is no rhyme or reason to how each separate chemo affects a patient, I fear that the "chemo brain" I experienced is something I am likely to experience w/future therapies.  It is not fair to my employer to have me only be able to work 3 - 4 days every 2 weeks nor do I want to continue feeling guilty about calling in sick because I don't feel comfortable working w/the companies financial data.  It embarrasses me that I don't feel I can work, it certainly is not something I expected or wanted, but the facts need to be faced and decisions made.  Like my husband said "you need to stop worrying about anything except yourself - you need to focus on "you" and obviously chemo is going to be more difficult than you thought so let go of all the external things causing you stress and let's look into getting you on disability thru this period" - and he's right.  It's just not what a want and was not willing to face...

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited November 2013


    Lisa, I looked for Blood Builder locally, but could not find it. I do plan to order it on Amazon today. I am usually anemic, but have nit been since on chemo since my periods stopped. The Taxotere can cause muscle weakness though. Of course, since my therapy is every 3 weeks, it allows the blood to recover before they draw my levels, so I have no idea how low it ever really gets. I sure hope you are feeling a little better today. I am sorry that AC is so horrible. I sure hope you can get disability, so that your body can have the time it needs to rest and recover after each treatment.


    Wrenn, I am so glad that your MO is not so set in stone with things. You have taken the time to arm yourself with information which is so important. I hope that stubborn wound keeps healing more and more and more each day. I cannot even imagine the frustration of having a wound like that...not to mention the pain.


    Honeybair, Thanks so much for checking in and offering your tips based on experience...very helpful!


    Things are status quo here. I had chemo number 3 on Friday, and so far things are the same as the other rounds. I have taken detiled day by day noted, which is helpful in remembering what helped...and what didn't. I had terrible heartburn this morning, and it was helped if I held pressure and kind of squeezed my chest. Lo and behold, I had to reschedule one of my fills for today, and the extra pressure that exerted actually helped!!!! It seems so "wrong" that it almost made me laugh. When Zantac fails, some fluid in the foob to the rescue!


    Imhope everyone has brighter days ahead.

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    Note to self.....if I get hearturn, call PS!

  • poodle_mum
    poodle_mum Member Posts: 83
    edited November 2013


    Uh oh Lisa - what happened?

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited November 2013


    Lisa, I hope your heartburn has resolved. Mine was worse this round than ever...and I have never had heartburn in my life! I even stopped at work and ran an ekg on myself to make sure I was not having a heart attack! I sure hope you are feeling a bit better, and that your MO can give you some things to alleviate some of the side effects. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow. I never got on Amazon the other day, but I did just place my order, so I am looking forward to getting it and seeing if it helps with my muscles this go around.


    Hope everyone is having a great Wednesday...another week is about halfway through! My kids are growing up so fast that I almost feel guilty wishing time would fly...but not guilty enough to stop wishing...c'mon time...get us to the finish line!!!!

  • babs6287
    babs6287 Member Posts: 2,021
    edited November 2013


    I was on Prilosec throughout my chemo and radiation due to heartburn-it really did the trick and my MO had no problem with my taking it! Maybe it can help those of you who are experiencing heartburn now.


    Babs

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited November 2013


    I am taking Zantac, but want to try something else; it is not cutting it. I will try Prilosec. Thanks for the tip!

  • VintageGal1111
    VintageGal1111 Member Posts: 705
    edited November 2013


    I got heart burn & acid reflux wicked last treatment & am feeling it start again today. I have Pepcid AC & that seems to help that awful bile that seems to be at the base of my throat. ....YUCK.

  • VintageGal1111
    VintageGal1111 Member Posts: 705
    edited November 2013


    Does the Blood Builder have iron? I cannot have iron supplements because my constipation (& rectocele) are such an issue. But I am anemic & sure don't want my chemo to be delayed because of it. I had beef liver tonight, have calves liver in the freezer too as well as chicken liver. It's a good thing I don;t mind it! I know some seafood it good *heme* iron. I already eat the veggies & fruits but that doesn't really absorb.

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    Ladies,

    I was trying to make a "funny" on KBeee's remark on getting relief from heartburn by going to PS for expansion.  Obviously....I failed miserably!  I do not have heartburn, nor did I experience any from my last chemo.  The only heartburn I get is from taking my Fish Oil - sometimes it doesn't go down right and heartburn sets in.  I take Prilosec twice daily (and have for years) because I can't tolerate any NSAID without the buffer of Prilosec - and I agree w/you, Babs, it works like a charm for that.  However, when it does not help me for heartburn.   My PCP suggested I try Zantac 75mg for heartburn and THAT works wonderfully.  Different things work for different people.......

    Headed back to chemo in the morning.  Hair started falling out today, not shedding...falling out.  I've an appointment for "the shave" on Friday that I made last week figuring I could hold it off as long as possible.  These infusion nurses know their stuff, I tell you!  They told me when they gave me a tour of the Infusion Center  back in September, "with Adriamycin, hair loss usually begins, like clockwork, on day 14".  Well, today is day 14 and hair loss is definitely happening.  Oh well, I knew it was going to go......  Whatever falls out between now and Friday's shave - I don't care.  I'm only going to be at 3 different doctor appointments and chemo.  All these places are very understandable about hair loss and I'm sure will be sympathetic and I have my hats.

    KBeee - what is your last chemo day?  Mine is the very beginning of February and I'm with you on the "hoping time flies" thing.... 

    Hope all is well with everyone!  As always, you are all in my thoughts and prayers!

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    VintageGal - Blood Builder does NOT have iron.  It is made from vegetables.  Look at Amazon, I buy the Mega Foods brand.  Non-constipating and completely organic.

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited November 2013


    Lisa, I see that now, that you were being funny; we all have been having so many problems, I was afraid you were having heartburn too! I sure hope your MO has some better options in place for you so that you feel better this time around. I saw that you mentioned something on the October chemo board about the gel headbands. I ordered that exact one as well as a couple wig caps from them. One of the wigcaps worked great. The gel headband did not. I think it depends on your head size and shape. I would be glad to send it to you. I would love for someone to be able to use it. My friend had one and loved it. PM me your address, and I'll put it in the mail.


    I am not exactly sure of my last chemo. That's kind of crazy. My MO originally scheduled me for 6 rounds, which would make January 3 my last. When he put me on that regimen, we did not have biopsy results back from my surgery to know that I was node negative, so he was being very aggressive. He also is involved in a clinical trial comparing 6 TC with AC+T, which I did not qualify for because my tumor was a tiny bit too small, so I think he threw me on 6 to see how people do on 6; I get the distinct impression he has had very fee people on this. 4 rounds is currently the standard in most cases. With 6, the dose is not decreased to spread it out over 6; it is just 2 more. I have been doing lots of reading...as always...on long term effects and such, and obviously, though small, the risk of things such as leukemia are present. To make a long story short, I have a very good friend who has had leukemia (and she died last night, so it is hard for me to type through the tears, sorry if this is error filled), and I wanted to know the risk benefit of 4 vs 6...at what point does any potential decrease in BC bring about an increase in other problems that outweigh the benefit? Being very strong estrogen and progesterone positive, clear margins with surgery, and node negative, I thought this was a valid question. Before I could even bring it up, the MO asked, "you are doing 6 treatments right?" I thought it was odd that he had not looked at the chart to know, but it did open up the discussion. I suggested running the oncotype test. If it comes back quite low, then we may stop at 4, which would make Nov 22 my last. Anything else, and we will likely go for 6, which would make Jan 3 my last. I am counting on January 3, so I dod not get my hopes up, but I will not know until I show up the day of chemo on the 22nd and meet with him. It is odd. He always seems to ask what I think we should do, and then he pretty much just agrees or disagrees...mostly agrees, and goes with it. On the 22, I will not tell him my opinion, I will ask him if his wife was sitting in this chair (I am the same age as my MO), what would he recommend? I want to do as much as necessary to decrease my odds of a recurrence! I have had awful heartburn, a lot of pain, a raw throat, and generally really annoying fatigue, but in the whole scheme of things, that is very minor, and I do know that my body has tolerated these well.


    The great thing with hats this time of the year up north...it is winter...everyone is wearing hats!


    Good day to all.

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    KBeee - I'm so sorry for your loss, you will continue to be kept in my prayers!

    I often times use the same tact w/doctors; the question thrown at them "what would you do if I were your daughter, sister, or mother - what would you advise to them?"  And then move forward based on how he responded to my question.  Good for you! 

    Regarding heartburn....it is VERY scary the first time you get it because you can't help but wonder if it is a heart attack! And if it keeps you awake and if it is not relieved you are stuck with lingering heartburn AND lack of sleep which makes you quite miserable the following day.  I'm hoping you find what works for you real soon!

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that the oncotype comes back low.

    Again KBeee, my deepest sympathy for your loss!

    Lisa

     

  • Jo6202
    Jo6202 Member Posts: 372
    edited November 2013


    KBee, so sorry to hear you are mourning the loss of your friend plus dealing with all of this. I know how you feel about wanting your MO's opinion. I know it is our bodies and our lives but having no experience it is hard to make these life altering decisions. I keep second guessing my decisions. I chose lumpectomy because I had one 20 years ago and I have a small almost invisible scar from a benign tumor. This time I am disfigured. Large, puckering ugly area with nipple pulling to one side and about one quarter of my breast missing. If I had any idea it would be this ugly, I would have chosen differently.

  • poodle_mum
    poodle_mum Member Posts: 83
    edited November 2013


    KBee - sorry to hear about your friend.


    Jo - I have another friend who had a lumpectomy and she said the same thing. She had to go through the radiation and chemo and said if she had known what she knows now, she would have had a mastectomy. She said if it comes back, she's not going to let them talk her into lumpectomies.


    I have noticed there are a lot more doctors (at least around here) who offer the option of a bilateral mastectomy over lumpectomies because in the long run, they feel it is easier emotionally for the woman after she heals and if she has chosen reconstruction, etc.


    Of course there are no guarantees for any of us.


    I feel like I'm in a stagnant spot - no further ahead but at least we're not backtracking. I'm trying not to think about next year and the possibility of another surgery. I got bold yesterday and cut off my hair (brush cut). I should have done it two months ago. I've had lots of sores - first because I can't wash it on a regular basis but also they think one of my meds is not helping the situation either. So, I figured, I mainly cover my head anyway because of my faith so no one knows the difference and if someone happens to see me with just enough hair to cover my head - who cares. I know, I'm preaching to the choir here. I do wish I had done it before, I wasn't anticipating the sores of course and maybe that would have either prevented them or at least not be as bad as they have been.


    I'm concerned about my scheduling for the surgeon over December, because the schedule he has me on now, means my appt will fall on Dec 24th and I don't know if he works that day. If he doesn't change my schedule, I could end up with a space of 5 weeks between appts depending on whether he takes holidays over Christmas time. I go on the 19th and I'm going to make sure I have a clear schedule because I've just made it to every 3 weeks and even with that, I'm in pain and almost non-functional for a week. He'd rather I not do every 2 weeks because this way it gives things time to heal a bit and he can see how things are going - he's really tracking the incision areas and even opened a spot in a different place last time that apparently "he didn't like". I know, don't worry about the future, take each day as it comes.


    My diet now includes the 5" tortillas with my home-made soup and also two kind of Peak Frean cookies that I can eat now - of course the main staple is my chocolate shakes. Oh, and I've found that I can have one of those tiny Greek yogurts once a day (although it does feel heavy and I need to eat it slowly) and I can eat a banana every day. So, I guess there is a light at the end of the tunnel :-)


    When I can finally eat REAL food, my first trip is to get Poutine. I'm a Canadian and I can't live without my Poutine and it's killing me!!!! LOL I never realised how much of a staple in my diet my Poutine is. I also miss Pizza.


    I hope all you ladies that are having the troubles with heartburn are able to find at least some solution that will ease things up.


    My thoughts and prayers are with you all.

  • Jo6202
    Jo6202 Member Posts: 372
    edited November 2013


    poodle-mum, ok, have to know what Is Poutine? It seems like every time I need a doctor it falls around a holiday and don't you just hate all the waiting. I sure am learning patience! Sorry you are having to go through pain every few weeks and not feeling like eating. I am a stress eater but have found walking really helps but now it hurts to walk with sore boobs bouncing around because I was told no bras until I'm done with rads. Always something!

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited November 2013


    I also was wondering what poutine is!


    Jo, that would be very frustrating to have such a different result this time. I do not think they are always clear on things beforehand.

  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November 2013


    So sorry KBeee and having to deal with that loss when you are in the middle of treatment must be so hard. :-(


    Poutine is french fries with gravy and cheese curds on top. yummy. Poodlemum. I hope your healing speeds up so you can enjoy all your favourites and I hope you get a decent schedule.

  • babs6287
    babs6287 Member Posts: 2,021
    edited November 2013


    Kbee so sorry for you loss! Losses while we're going through everything we're dealing with now are just soo much harder!


    Jo-Don't second guess your decisions- that serves no purpose. You need to go with your gut. I was told to start chemo before my mastectomy but decided I needed to have the cancer out first and then let chemo work on anything that might be "left." I've never looked back or thought what if. Maybe you should look into fat grafting to fix the deficits from the lumpectomy so you'll feel better about how you look.


    Poodlemum-sorry you're feeling stagnant


    Lisa-You're so right about the heartburn-it can be scary the first time!


    Tomorrow is my second fill. I'm a bit apprehensive since my skin on the left still feels so very tight-I don't think it stretched at all from the last fill. I'll see how I feel tomorrow night!!!


    Good night to all,


    Babs

  • poodle_mum
    poodle_mum Member Posts: 83
    edited November 2013


    Good luck to you Babs, I can't imagine what you ladies must endure having to have those fills. They sound painful!


    Wrenn, thank you my fellow Canuck for explaining Poutine. It is definitely a staple Canadian food - I think some places near the border in the US have started selling it too :-)


    Well, off to bed - busy schedule for this month - trying to catch up on all the things that need to be done. Dayton has to go to the vet tomorrow - he needs his 6 month physical for school but when I rung up the vet's office they told me that he was overdue for his vaccinations in August. If I had realised that, I would have had them done before my surgery. Now I feel awful because he is 3 months late! As it is the school needed his physical done in October but I was just too sick to do it.


    I am feeling more energy though so that is good. Maybe it's my strange soup concoction! LOL


    Rest up ladies as well as you can and my thoughts and prayers are with you all.

  • LiLi1964
    LiLi1964 Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2013

    Poodle-Mum – can you contact the school where you got Dylan and see if they can get his vaccinations and whatnot up to date for you?  Perhaps if they knew your current (and last few months) situation they would be more that willing to help out in this regard.  It’s always worth asking, I’ve found out.

    Regarding your office visit schedule – first, have you counted the weeks forward to see if you will be needing a visit to the doctor the week of Christmas? If you do, can you call them NOW and get that appointment scheduled for either Monday or Tuesday before Christmas – or get appointment scheduled for Thurs or Friday after Christmas.  That’s the normal practice at medical offices when patients are on set schedules to be seen.  They will work with you to keep your schedule on track.

    Glad you are continuing to eat!  I had long talks w/MO and Infustion nurse yesterday at chemo.  I had gained 5 lbs in the 24 hours after chemo (water retention from the steroids) but then proceeded to drop 15 lbs in the next 4 days because I simply could not eat.  Broke my heart dropping all that weight I had worked so hard at gaining before going into chemo….and I only gained 3 lbs back by chemo time yesterday.

    So here is an urgent request going out to all ladies – I am aware of the foods that are high in protein and calories (most everyone I tried after 1st chemo made me feel sick).  I know there are protein powders out there and those often times will be mixed with frozen yogurt or ice-cream and mixed fruit to make smoothies (and I cannot drink anything milk based, I found out, the consistency makes me sick).

    I have a co-worker who had worked in Food Service and told me about a product called Resource 206 with is a powder or liquid that nursing homes often use to mix in their clients meals to keep getting high calories/proteins in them w/o them even knowing it.  THAT’s what I’m looking for---a tasteless powder type product of high protein/calories that I could drop in my water, juice, coffee, soda, ect.  (Kind of like how Mirilax works – you can dump that power in any liquid and it has not taste but gets into your system to do what it needs to do.  DOES ANYONE KNOW A PRODUCT LIKE THAT?  I have no more weight to loose and if this post chemo session goes as the last, I’m going to end up widdled down to a very scary 103 lbs and that’s just unhealthy!  ANY suggestions you all might have I’m interested in hearing about.  The one thing that’s out is the Protein bars – I have a whole stock of those, having used them to help get my initial weight back up prior to chemo but even 12 days post chemo (when I was no longer dealing w/any nausea issues) I could not stomach that protein bar.  I did find I could eat the Nature Made Salty Peanut bar. I actually ate 2 during the second chemo and they went down fine….for a short while. 

    As soon as I left the infusion center I was feeling GI issues and we still had to run over to PS for another expansion, having arrived an hour before my scheduled appointment.  I explained to the receptionist why I was there so early and how I was feeling and asked if there would be any way of being seen sooner so that I could get home before anything “bad” happened.  As always, these clinics are so understanding and in 3 minutes my nurse came out and we were done w/expansion and my PS peeked in to take a look and we were gone 30 minutes after arriving. Strange, I did not have that immediate reaction after the first chemo and I did have a large muffin I age during that therapy.  But when we feel our GI issues….I believe we have all learned that means “you might want to get home asap because things are going to start happening that may be quite unpleasant”.  There was a point  to that story….I did eat 2 very light protein bars during chemo and even thru all the anti-nausea meds they were able to cause such an issue that made me very uncomfortable.

    So looking for any suggestions from you wonderful ladies on what I can do to GAIN weight.

    Babs – I hope your second expansion went well.  I was going to go for the full 100cc on each side like last time even though it caused me great discomfort for 48 hours.  My thinking, as I told my PS, was this “The anti-nausea med I take has a sleeping agent in it and I’m likely to sleep for the next 3 days – so if I am made uncomfortable by the expansion it doesn’t really matter because I’ll be sleeping and should not feel the worst of it”.  He laughed and said “that’s one way to get thru an expansion that makes you uncomfortable”.  He looked me over and said everything is looking exactly as it should so we proceeded with the fill.  However, once my nurse got up to 75 cc I told her I was feeling a lot of tightness and thought that might be a good place to stop.  So, ended up with 75cc on each side instead of 100cc.  Oh well. 

    I then asked her and my PS “what size expanders were placed” – PS didn’t have his notes handy but said their standard practice is to implant 400 or 450 in someone my size.  I then asked what amount of expansion we should be using if I wanted to be a nice full B cup and he said that is too hard to determine.  BUT, in his opinion on how I now looked, I would still need 3 more expansions.  That’s great news – fully expanded by Christmas; all AC treatments done before Christmas; and first Taxol treatment 6 days prior to Christmas.  Seems I got on a very manageable schedule – I hope it holds.

    OK, update for all those who have gone and purchased and are using Blood Builder.  I have to tell you this story because this product just really impressed me and it sure impressed the NP who saw me in lieu of MO yesterday.  After we had our discussion on how to better manage chemo this time, she said “let’s pop up your labs and take a look”.  White counts way up (even a couple numbers over normal – so obviously the Neulasta works); Hemoglobin and Hematocrit are well in the normal ranges – she asked what I’m doing to have brought those up to such a healthy level in such a short period of time and I told her “It’s the Blood Builder”.  She looked at me in a strange way so I said to her “it seems you are not familiar with the product, is that right?” I told her, “Is Mega Foods Blood Builder and can be purchased at Amazon – and locally at Whole Foods (but much more expensive there)”.  She wrote all the info down so she can pass it on to other patients suffering from Anemia but won’t take iron supplements because of all the issues they cause.  I’m thinking Amazon might be getting a large run on Blood Builder in the near future……I’m just so happy my PCP had asked around at our Complimentary Care clinic years ago and found this product to pass on to me.  And if my passing it on to others so they can get their numbers up….well, pay it forward it what its’ all about!

    The only other issue w/my labs were low sodium.  I cut back on sodium after the huge water retention issue following the steroids taken w/chemo….I obviously cut back too much.  Easily remedied….I love salty foods and will eat more of them once the initial swelling goes down.

    We have in place the correct anti-nausea this time so that should not be a problem.  The memory issue….we will have to wait and see.  The Lorazepam I take which helps so well w/anti-nausea also makes me sleep rather deeply so I’m to use that for the 1st 3 days following chemo.  That will take away the sleep deprivation issue my MO thought contributed to my memory issues.  If I STILL have the horrible feeling like my mind has been erased when I return to work, then she feels confident it is the SE of Chemo Brain and has asked me to either stop working or cut my hours as much as possible.  So we will have to wait and see what happens there.  So, plan in place and anything else that comes up I’ll just call in to find out how to manage.  Oh, and nothing they can really do about the bone pain from Neulasta except add the Dexomethasone for a couple more days (which will mean having to take the Lorazepam those nights so I can sleep).  Which means a couple more days off work (I cannot work while Lorazepam – I cant’ think clearly while taking it because it makes me so thoroughly tired).  We’re just going to have to see what happens.

    Jo – was your BS or PS clear on how your breast would look after Lumpectomy?  It was my understanding that PS are VERY clear on what the expectation should be following the surgery.  And if a large amount of breast needs to be removed, they often will suggest a mastectomy for 2 reasons:  first, you will be more happy with the results; and second, it makes their job easier and less surgeries for you to correct that breast appearance.  And if I remember correctly, they are required by law to make that breast look as close to normal following your surgery – have you asked about that?

    My dx was showing very clearly defined areas of concern and lumpectomies were an option (never given to me but the doctors talked about it).  They felt confident they could get all the cancer out of both breasts w/lumpectomies but here was the problem.  I was a small chested woman and had already had a lumpectomy done on my left breast 20 years previously.  The problem is that too much beast tissue would have to be removed w/lumpectomies that is would have made in very difficult/impossible to reconstruct the breasts with all the damage that would have happened from lumpectomies.  The day I received my dx of cancer in both breast was the time it was brought up that my medical team was recommending bilateral mastectomies – reason being, exactly what happened to you, Jo.  They told me that the amount of breast tissue they would need to remove would not necessarily make reconstruction easy should I decide on lumpectomies instead.  In fact, I was told it would be very difficult, the changes of them getting both breasts to look the same in size, shape, and volume could never be done in one surgery, multiple surgeries would be required, and still the end result could not guarantee good results for the patient.  For me, it was a no-brainer.  I had cancer in both breasts, I wanted it out, and asked them to just please remove them both so I could have some assurance I could live with that all cancer was gone.  Then, start from scratch w/reconstruction (yet this, I’m told, is what caused my very painful, long recovery just by virtue of what they need to do w/the pectoral muscle).  So it wasn’t easy, I SO hate the idea of the surgery for final implants given all the pain I had the first time around, but felt my team fully informed me of how each procedure (lumpectomy vs mastectomy) would end up and let me make the call.  Since my decision fell right along the lines of theirs….BMX was scheduled.

    Did they do all that for you, Jo?  They should have…..even should have directed you to sites online where you could see for yourself what lumpectomy results actually looked like.  It’s such a huge decision I just so hope they didn’t give you so little information and now you are left with something that makes you uncomfortable.  Have you discussed w/PS on what is his plan on “fixing” this?  Is he looking to reduce your other breast and use that tissue on the lumpectomy side to try to even things out?  I’m just so sorry you are in the position you are in…doesn’t seem right.

    Babs – is your daughter back in town yet?  I’m sure you’re hoping she’s home for the holidays…if she’s not yet back, will she be back for good by Thanksgiving?

    VintageGal – have you looked into the Blood Builder yet?  I don’t want to “push” but I know I have such great results from it and so few people know of its existence. I cannot stop telling women about it who have anemia.  It is so gentle and works so well…….

    Jeannine – how close are you to finishing now?  It has to be getting close…..

    Nkgrrl – I had to put on a gown for my TE expansion yesterday….and first thought that flew in my head… “Shamoo” – you’re story really stuck w/me!!!!!!!


  • VintageGal1111
    VintageGal1111 Member Posts: 705
    edited November 2013


    Just chiming in on the lumpectomy vs mastectomy decision.....I can't help but wonder if I made the right decision.....so much was going through my head at the time....the discovery the biopsy, diagnosis, tests then BOOM! BS says *we rarely do mastectomies anymore* (like he said that 3 x) so I went for the lumpectomy even though last minute the Tumor Board felt I should have the option of chemo first since my breast was sooo petite & the masses deep in the chest wall. (this told to me the day before scheduled surgery). I went with my first decision but post op the BS told me he wanted to do a re-incision to get better margins & the cells on the skin then the Tumor Board said NO, start chemo asap. ....sigh.... then revisit the chance of more surgery in the future. I do sometimes wonder if I had more time if I would have made a different choice but for the most part I just have faith in the experts.

  • jbdayton
    jbdayton Member Posts: 700
    edited November 2013


    Thanks for asking. I have 2 regular rads left. Holding up pretty well, just good sunburn look but no blistering. Weekend off to recover some. Have starting feeling fatigued the past 3 days in the early afternoon. the past 2 days I have had tummy issues, not sure if rads related or not. Meet with RO on Monday to discuss if any boosts are needed.


    Tuesday afternoon I meet with my MO and will probably be prescribed an AI.


    Thursday I have an appt. with my PT for LE.


    Off until Dec 4 when I will meet with my PS and start planning DIEP reconstruction for 2014. I don't know if will do any fills or not, wIll find out.


    I cannot believe this part of the journey is almost over; 10 months of treatments. I am going to consider reconstruction separately. That will be my 2014 journey.


    Good luck to everyone else. I keep reading up on everyone. Sorry so many of you have had a hard time with your chemo. I am glad my chemo was before any other treatment. Sounds more challenging when your bodies and immune systems have been compromised from surgeries.


    I know everyone will make it through this but remember many friends are in your pockets as you continue your journey.


    Many hugs to all.

  • Jo6202
    Jo6202 Member Posts: 372
    edited November 2013


    Lili and VintageGal,


    I looked pretty good after my lumpectomy but then didn't get clear margins so had second surgery and still looked ok but then realized I had a Seroma the size of my hand. Once the swelling and Seroma went away ....ugly puckering and realized a quarter of my breast was gone. I do not have a PS yet because RO said my breast may shrink from the radiation. Once everything is done and everything has settled to where it is going to be then will see what a PS can do for me. I was a dd so have extra they could use from my good girl.


    Lili when I talked with surgeon she thought a lumpectomy was very doable but once she got to my tumor against my chest wall she found a second tumor right next to it that had to come out. It never showed on mammogram or US. Then the re-excision took even more tissue out. I guess at the initial consultation she just had no idea that I have always been a challenging patient. My PCP calls me her mystery patient and she says you never want to be a mystery patient! Every surgery I have ever had has had unexpected surprises. I won't bore you with undiagnosed illnesses, pregnancies, etc but I never have common symptoms. My bc tumor showed on mammograms for past three years but did not look like cancer to radiologists. Never felt a lump but breast started having indentation because tumor was pulling on tissue on the other side of the breast so had biopsy on area that did not appear to be anything on mammogram. Then surprise the big "C".

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