Femara vs other hormonal treatments for ILC

sgreenarch
sgreenarch Member Posts: 528

I know that others on the ILC threads are starting or are already on AI's or on tamoxifen. I switched from tamoxifen to Femara in January. I have the usual SE's as well as a cholesterol level that is rapidly creeping northward, but generally ok. There are times that I wonder about switching AI's to see it the SE's would lessen, but I'm swayed to stick w Femara due to the info below.  Some new research came out last December that said that Femara is good, perhaps better than the other hormonal drugs, specifically for ILC. I just wanted to put this out there (article below is copied from elsewhere on the breastcancer.org site.) I'm curious if others are being prescribed Femara specifically. And how you're doing....

Femara Better Than Tamoxifen for Certain Types of Breast Cancer

Published on December 17, 2012 at 12:31 pm


Many postmenopausal women take hormonal therapy medicine – either an aromatase inhibitor or tamoxifen – after breast cancer surgery and other treatments for hormone-receptor-positive, early-stage breast cancer. Hormonal therapy medicine can reduce the risk of the cancer coming back (recurrence).

A new analysis of results from the BIG 1-98 trial found that the aromatase inhibitor Femara (chemical name: letrozole) improved both disease-free survival (living without the cancer growing) and overall survival (living whether or not the cancer grew) compared to tamoxifen in postmenopausal women diagnosed with estrogen-receptor-positive, HER2-negative breast cancer.

The benefits of Femara over tamoxifen were most notable in treating lobular breast cancer compared to ductal breast cancer. Femara was also better at treating luminal B breast cancers with a high level of the protein Ki-67, which helps breast cancer cells grow.

The study, "Relative effectiveness of letrozole compared with tamoxifen for patients with lobular carcinoma in the BIG 1-98 trial," was presented at the 2012 San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium.

Lobular breast cancer is breast cancer that begins in the milk-producing lobules, which empty out into the milk ducts that carry milk to the nipple. Ductal breast cancer is breast cancer that begins in the milk ducts. Ductal breast cancer is the most common type of breast cancer – about 80% of all breast cancers start in the milk ducts.

Luminal B breast cancer is hormone-receptor-positive, HER-positive breast cancer, or HER2-negative with high levels of Ki-67. Hormone-receptor-positive, HER2-negative breast cancer with low levels of Ki-67 is called luminal A breast cancer.

In the BIG 1-98 trial, more than 8,000 postmenopausal women diagnosed with early-stage, hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer were randomly assigned one of four treatments after surgery:

  • 5 years of Femara
  • 5 years of tamoxifen
  • 2 years of tamoxifen then 3 years of Femara (sequential therapy)
  • 2 years of Femara then 3 years of tamoxifen (sequential therapy)

Half the women were followed for more than 8 years; the others for shorter times. The researchers then compared the outcomes of the different treatments.

The researchers found that women who got 5 years of Femara had:

  • better disease-free survival
  • better overall survival

compared to women who got 5 years of tamoxifen.

Because lobular breast cancer is less common – about 10% of breast cancers start in the lobules – the researchers decided to see if Femara offered any benefits specifically for lobular breast cancer.

So they compared the outcomes of the 324 women in the BIG 1-98 study diagnosed with lobular breast cancer to the 2,599 women diagnosed with ductal cancer who got only Femara or only tamoxifen.

All the cancers were estrogen-receptor-positive and HER2-negative, but there were differences in Ki-67 protein levels:

  • 55.3% of the ductal cancers had low levels of Ki-67 (luminal A cancer)
  • 46.7% of the ductal cancers had high levels of Ki-67 (luminal B cancer)
  • 73.1% of the lobular cancers had low levels of Ki-67 (luminal A cancer)
  • 26.9% of the lobular cancers had high levels of Ki-67 (luminal B cancer)

For the women diagnosed with ductal breast cancer, 8-year disease-free survival rates were:

  • 82% for women who got Femara
  • 75% for women who got tamoxifen

For the women diagnosed with lobular breast cancer, 8-year disease free survival rates were:

  • 82% for women who got Femara
  • 66% for women who got tamoxifen

This difference in disease-free survival for lobular breast cancer was significant, which means that it was likely because of the difference in treatment and not just due to chance.

Of all the women diagnosed with luminal A breast cancer, women diagnosed with lobular breast cancer treated with tamoxifen had the worst outcomes compared to women diagnosed with ductal breast cancer treated with Femara or tamoxifen and women diagnosed with lobular breast cancer treated with Femara.

Of all the women diagnosed with luminal B breast cancer, women treated with tamoxifen had worse outcomes than women treated with Femara no matter if they had ductal or lobular breast cancer. Women diagnosed with lobular breast cancer treated with tamoxifen had the worst outcomes in this group.

While these results are interesting, more research is needed to confirm that Femara is a better choice to treat lobular breast cancers and luminal B breast cancers.

Research shows that an aromatase inhibitor such as Femara is the best hormonal therapy medicine after breast cancer surgery for postmenopausal women diagnosed with early-stage, hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. Still, tamoxifen can be a good choice, depending on a woman’s unique situation and the cancer’s characteristics.

When you’re deciding on a treatment plan after breast cancer surgery, keep two things in mind:

  • Every woman responds differently to treatment. What works for you may not work for someone else.
  • Your treatment plan isn't written in stone. You can always switch medicines if another treatment has greater benefits and fewer side effects.

If you’re a postmenopausal woman being treated for hormone-receptor-positive, early-stage breast cancer, ask your doctor about the cancer’s characteristics. Is it luminal A or luminal B? Did it start in the lobules or the milk ducts? If the cancer is lobular and/or luminal B, you may want to ask your doctor about this study and whether Femara is a good hormonal therapy option for you. Armed with the most up-to-date information, you can make the best decisions about a treatment plan that’s right for you.

 

Comments

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited October 2013

    I am sticking with femara for the same reason. My doc recommended my having an ooph, so I could go straight on femara. This was before the study came out, but based on his extensive experience.



    My cholesterol is holding steady, but last time I had bloodwork was after I had done intermittent fasting for about three weeks. My cholesterol was down twenty points. So, before going on meds, you could try the fasting thing.

  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 532
    edited October 2013

    I'm still premenopausal, so I'm on tamoxifen. This information makes me want menopause to happen sooner than later ... But I don't know if I want to do an ooph just yet (nor did any of my oncologists recommend it). I'd love to go into menopause naturally but soon (I'm still regularly menstruating, but the cycles are getting longer).



    Since this study focused on post menopausal women, I wonder if the advantage is still the same for premenopausal women? Just another damned thing to fret about! :-/

    Edited to add: I guess the takeaway of this study is that post menopausal women with ILC should choose Femara over tamoxifen (it's my understanding that a choice can be made between the two?). Since I'm premenopausal, I don't have a choice yet (unless I opt for ooph), so it doesn't apply to me and I can't worry. Once I go through menopause, I'll definitely make the switch (which has always been my MO's plan from the start).

    Thanks for reading my internal struggle! ;-)
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2013

    Just started armidex yesterday..... finally officially post-meno. I will try to embrace this drug as I did all my other tx, including tamoxifen, and hope that SE are non-existent or minimal.  I knew that femara/anastrole was better for we ILC ladies.

    Ordering glucosamine today to be proactive in case of any joint issues with this drug. I'm already vegan, so I hope there won't be much cholesterol problems...I have extremely low cholesterol anyway, because I am so active.

    Here's hoping....slainte Wink

    Claire

  • itsjustme10
    itsjustme10 Member Posts: 796
    edited October 2013

    It's interesting.  Maybe I will rethink the Lupron shots my Onc offered..

    Does anyone know why the AI's are only offered to post-menopausal women - is there some reason why they wouldn't be effective in those of us who are pre-menopausal without artifically creating menopause?

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited October 2013

    This study only compared femara and tamoxifen, not the other AIs.....i found SEs of femara too much so switched to aromasin..........i was told it is as effective as femara for lobular

  • lekker
    lekker Member Posts: 594
    edited October 2013

    Before menopause, our ovaries make estrogen. AI's do nothing to prevent or block this estrogen. Our adrenal gland and body fat make a substance called aromatase that is then converted into estrogen. AI's inhibit or prevent that aromatase from converting into estrogen, thereby depriving any estrogen-dependent cancer cells. With functioning ovaries, you would be making enough estrogen to feed the cancer even if no aromatase was being converted because of an AI. Premenopausal (and some post menopausal) women get tamoxifen because it "fills" the cancer's estrogen receptors, thereby preventing any circulating estrogen from fueling its growth.

  • itsjustme10
    itsjustme10 Member Posts: 796
    edited October 2013

    Thank you for the explanation, lekker. I really learned something. :)

  • melmcbee
    melmcbee Member Posts: 1,119
    edited October 2013

    I was put on Arimidex and my mo acted like it was just as good for Ilc. Lol. I did ask though. Just for info reasons I am not having bone pain. I do have headaches. I still feel extremely fatigued but I did just come off strong antibiotics and was in the hospital a few weeks ago for cellulitis. I just have no drive anymore but I think its ddepression from being out of work. I really dont think the Arimidex has gave me any side effects. Good luck.

  • Racy
    Racy Member Posts: 2,651
    edited October 2013

    I have been on Femara since July 2011. My onc said Arimidex is very similar. I am pleased to be on this drug as my onc is very experienced and involved in research.

  • momand2kids
    momand2kids Member Posts: 1,508
    edited October 2013

    Thanks for this--I am 4 years in on femara (with 2 years of lupron) and this makes me feel like it was worth it. Scheduled to go off femara in May 2014.  SE's were hard at the beginning but have really settled down-- but I am looking forward to going off, assuming no new major research convinces my onc to keep me on longer--no matter what, I am going to take a break!!!!

  • mamabee
    mamabee Member Posts: 546
    edited October 2013

    I didn't know this. I was 47 and premenopausal when diagnosed. I haven't had a period in 1 1/2 years due to chemopause and I've been on Tamoxifen for a year. Saw my MO last month and she said if I still hadn't had a period in another year, she'd switch me to an AI. But she won't test my estrogen levels to see if I'm officially in menopause. Is this like your experience? Should I find another MO?

  • toomuch
    toomuch Member Posts: 901
    edited October 2013

    Mambee - If you would be interested in changing to an AI sooner,  I would think that your gynecologist would likely be happy to do tests to determine if you are past menopause. The tests that need to be done are FSH and estradiol. The estrogen level alone won't answer the question.  The BIG 1-98 study showed that there was increased DFS for women with ILC who took 5 years of Femara compared to women who took 5 years of Tamoxifen. It showed improved DFS in the first 2 years for women who were started on Femara compared to women who initially took Tamoxifen. However, the 5 year results showed no difference in DFS between women who took 5 years of Femara and women who took 2 years of Tamoxifen followed by 3 years of Femara or 2 years of Femara followed by 3 years of Tamoxifen. In other words, the benefit of Femara was seen in the first 2 years in regiments that contained both Femara and Tamoxifen compared to Femara alone. 

  • mamabee
    mamabee Member Posts: 546
    edited October 2013

    Thanks toomuch! 

  • Racy
    Racy Member Posts: 2,651
    edited October 2013

    Mamabee, your primary doctor may also be able to approve blood tests to check your menopausal status.



    Keep in touch!

  • Rdrunner
    Rdrunner Member Posts: 309
    edited October 2013

    I wondering what were if any confounding factors in that study. Here is what I was wondering and why. ok generally post menopausal women would have more body fat than pre naturally so then more aromatise circulating in theory. Pre menopausal would have most of estrogen coming from ovaries but depending on body fat would also have aromatise to different degrees. i have to research this but do estrogen receptors recongise differences in the pathways which might make a difference.I also wonder if there is a cellular difference etc in premeno lobular versus post lobular cancer.

    What does concern me many onc dont care or dont feel its necessary to treat ilc any differently than idc but there is some research ( and very little specific research on ilc has been done)to support that it should be. There has also been some research ( that i lost when old computer crashed a fewmonths ago) that some pathologist think that it should not be graded like IDC either as it is a contradiction to the current grading system used. tamoxifen works for me right now and the side effect are bearable.. only one im concerned about is weight loss, it stopped while i had to go off it for surgery and sure enough as soon as i start taking it the weight loss has started again.. slower than in the beginning but i hhave lost 25lbs and i really didnt need to loose weight so im concerned and starting to look gross .

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2013

    mamabee, I asked my gyno to check my FSH etc twice. Once Aug 12 to see if chemo had put me in meno, and again in Jan. I asked her to send the results to my MO. When I saw my MO in June, she said she wanted to wait a bit more to make "sure" I was meno. When I saw her this month, I reminded her again about meno and the switch from tamox to arimidex.  She looked at my results from my gyno and wrote me the rx.

    Ladies, I ask my GP and my gyno (other docs like my surgeon, too) to send all visit notes and lab reports to my MO so she has access to them.  That way I feel they are truly my medical team, not disparate docs. 

    Claire

  • sgreenarch
    sgreenarch Member Posts: 528
    edited October 2013

    Mama bee, this is all complicated, heavy duty hormone level balancing. I was 49 at dx and peri menopausal, (whatever that means.) I had had a hysterectomy at 47 (large fibroid) but had kept ovaries, so I wasn't menstruating but those ovaries were still doing their thing independently, pumping out estrogen, so I was on tamoxifen at the beginning. My gyn did hormone level tests after about a year of tamox, which showed very high estradiol levels. Seems an unusual SE of tamoxifen can be tricking the ovaries into going into overdrive. Last thing we all want is extra estrogen swimming around in our bodies. I was given the choice of Lupron shots vs oopherectomy. Did Lupron for about six mos til I began thinking that menopause could start in one year or six. Lupron for that long didn't seem like a good idea and I also was getting tired of having female parts going haywire all the time, suddenly. Kissed the ovaries goodbye and had an ooph. Switched to Femara in January. I'd recommend asking for hormone level checks while on tamoxifen just to be thorough. Not something that's common, so don't worry.



    The question I really have for all my ILC friends is are your oncs recommending Femara over the other two AI's? My onc said that Femara is superior to the other two specifically in treating ILC. I am sticking to Femara for this reason, for if not, I'd sample the others to see if I'd have fewer SEs. Curious about what others are hearing about this...



    Thanks! Good weekend!

    Shari

  • momand2kids
    momand2kids Member Posts: 1,508
    edited October 2013

    sgreenarch

    My onc never recommended aromasin or arimidex... I have been on femara since the beginning--she has always maintained that the hormonal therapy is the most powerful.  I go off in May 2014--and while the SE's are mild, I am really hoping that my brain fuzziness and my vaginal dryness will improve.

    I really found that exercise counteracted all of my joint se's.... but I cannot wait to get off!!!!

  • toomuch
    toomuch Member Posts: 901
    edited October 2013

    sgreenarch - The only study to look at this was done with Femara. My MO, at a university hospital, believes that the same results would be seen if Arimidex or Aromisin were studied against Tamoxifen. I'm on Arimidex. He chooses to use it first because it is available as a generic and we all know that oncologists are being pressured to control the cost of treatments. I had my estradiol levels checked twice to be sure that the generic was doing it's job and both times my level was less then the lowest number that the lab reports out.

  • Teen22
    Teen22 Member Posts: 79
    edited October 2013


    Diagnosed with bone mets out of the gate just last August. Had fusion surgery to thoracic spine due to disc compression. No chemo. Am postmenopausal and was prescribed Femara on 9/19. Presently on rads to spine. Just had Onc visit two days ago and she said that Femara reduced my primary breast tumor from 6 x 6 to 2.5 x 3. She also said the tumor is softer. She was absolutely elated!


    My Femara SEs were minor. My heels hurt but was relieved with DH massaging it. Skin is also dry, but pure coconut organic oil works wonders. So far, so good. As was told by many...our bodies are all different.


    All the best to my ILC sisters....

  • maj2
    maj2 Member Posts: 3
    edited October 2014

    Very frustrating. My doctor doesn't give me very nuanced reasons for choosing one type of AI over another. He first put me on Anastrazole. It gave me horrendous hot flashes and sweats, but worse, it made me feel foggy, indecisive, mentally vague -- to the point that there was one occasion in the grocery store that I was unable to figure out what to buy, even though I held a grocery list in my hand. I asked him why he had chosen this drug for me? why not letrazole? he said they are "the same". to which I replied, if they are the same, then why do they exist as different drugs? clearly they are not, exactly, precisely identical.  

    The fog I experienced seems to be much like what some people describe as chemo brain, which seems linked to hormones or estrogen deprivation. Not much research on this. My doctor seemed to think this was some kind of psychological thing, depression, psycho somatic, or otherwise fantasized. But when I stopped taking it, within 4-5 days, my old familiar state of mind came back to me!

    Anybody out there have any citations or insight into estrogen deprivation? Maybe I'll try Letrozole, but I hear it blocks estrogen even more than anastrazole, and I've already got some bone thinning starting. Or if, perhaps something like Aromasin would be better for me?

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited October 2014

    aromasin works via different routes to the other two, but is supposed to be as effective, its a question of what suits you

  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited October 2014

    I had one of each ILC and IDC I'm on exemestane doing ok, I wonder if I should try Femera I have an appointment soon and will ask about it. If we could just know if the stuff is working.

  • Scotslass43
    Scotslass43 Member Posts: 4
    edited November 2014

    I took femara pre surgery for 6 months.  It did not work for me although pathology from biopsy and later from analysis of actual tumour showed it should have.  I could just be an unusual case though and there could be some unknown reason it did not shrink the tumour.  I don't know if this helps as I don't know if tamoxifen is working for me although I'm taking it just in case as they found a new tumour straight after chemo which was removed in second op. So I'm taking it hopefully as chemo did not work either.   I was 65 at Dx 

Categories