Taxol failed response , AC still possible to shrink tumor?

Options
Tfosher
Tfosher Member Posts: 14

Hello all! I am fairly new here, only posted a few times. I am here because of my wonderful sister who is undergoing chemo currently for TNBC. Her stat's are below. My question is, last week at her scheduled treatment, she got confirmation that her tumor was continuing to grow despite Taxol. Her ON felt that the node was not growing but switched her to AC right away. 

I'm looking for any possitive stories that Taxol didn't work but AC did? I'm so scared for her and I know she is worried as well. 

Dx 06/05/2013, IDC, >5cm and 2cm, Stage III, Grade 3, at least 2+ nodes, ER-/PR- HER2- BRCA1+

Surgery Double Mastectomy and Axillary Lymph Node Dissection and removal scheduled Radiation Therapy scheduled 

Chemotherapy 12 rounds scheduled weekly Taxol, followed by 4 rounds - AC  

Comments

  • Luah
    Luah Member Posts: 1,541
    edited August 2013

    Tfosher: Sorry, I can't be much help... I had surgey first so I have no idea whether or not AC and/or taxol worked or neither for me. However, I do know there are some women on these boards for whom the taxol worked, and others for whom the AC worked. Hopefully one of them will chime in shortly.  I understand your concerns, but it is very good her docs are staying on top of her response and adjusting treatment accordingly.  

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Thanks so much. She is in the iSpy2 trial in Denver, and thankfully they have been very on top of things and adjusting accordingly. She was in an arm of the trial with an added Bio drug and has since been removed from that arm since it was to be given with Taxol. I am hopeful that AC works. After treatment 1, she's having a rough go and I just can't wait for her next 3 to be over!

  • bcfree2013
    bcfree2013 Member Posts: 94
    edited August 2013

    Tfosher, I had ACx4 first and then Tx12. AC kicked my butt but shrunk my tumor a lot.

    I've read an article that says >20% of TN tumors respond to AC while only about 8% of TN tumors repond to T. TN also responds well to carboplatin.

    I've also heard a lot of good things about the ISPY2 trial. Doctors will monitor your friend's progress closely and change chemo drugs if necessary.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013

    Excellent information for TNBC at: http://www.tnbcfoundation.org/  Have known several people involved with TNBCF and I think their work is about the best on this subject.

  • dancermom
    dancermom Member Posts: 53
    edited August 2013

    I almost did the I spy trial, but would have been forced to leave it anyway since I ended up being allergic to taxol. I had a much better response to AC (not complete, but almost) than I did with taxol. I am not triple negative, but triple positive, but still did respond to AC not so much to taxol/taxotere.

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Thanks much all! Yes bcfree2013 - they have already done very good with monitoring her. She has had several MRI's and such and they quickly determined with T her tumor was still growing so they have moved her to AC. So far, it's kicking her butt - it's been so much harder on her than T was and she started back to school this week full time (teacher). It's so encouraging to hear people with positive stories. 

    Dancermom - yes so far she has been well - she had an alergic reaction to taxol at first, but they were able to control this - she also had a very strong reaction (negative horrible rash) to the bio drug they gave with Taxol. So, they took her off T after 4 weekly treatments and moved her to AC. 

  • encyclias
    encyclias Member Posts: 302
    edited August 2013

    Tfosher, I am sorry your sister's tumor didn't respond to the Taxol. 

    I received A/C chemo within two weeks of my diagnosis.  My doctor was in a hurry because I was TN and the PET scan hadn't showed any mets yet but did show some node involvement, both axillary and internal mammary.

    By the third A/C infusion, you could barely feel the lumps in my breast (one had been 2.3cm and the other 2.7cm), nor the swollen node in my armpit.  By the 4th infusion, nothing could be felt at all.  A follow-up mammo and US the next month showed nothing; which either meant that the cancer was gone, or it was too small to be seen anymore.

    I  insisted on a lumpectomy/biopsy to find out which.  The smaller lump was completely gone, but the larger one had shrunk to 3mm, about half the size of a greenpea, and was removed.  The margins were all clear and a sentinel node biopsy was also clear (there is no way to biopsy the internal mammary nodes under the sternum).  True, it wasn't a complete response, but everyone seemed happy with it.  I went on to get radiation and am finished now with just a future of scans and checkups.  I just consider myself lucky -- so far. I am BRCA-negative, so my treatment may be different from what is planned for your sister.

    Sending prayers and best wishes to you, your sister and the family.  I hope she does very well in her future treatments.

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Thanks Encyclias - it sounds so very close to my sister. Her tumor (main) is slightly larger but she does have 2 (the other is 2cm or smaller). She has 2 lymph nodes involved but they wont know exactly how many until they do her surgery obviously. I am soo thankful for stories like yours! I am praying she has a good response to the AC. Because she is BRCA+ she will be getting a double mastectomy in October when she completes AC. Followed by radiation. Your own experience is inspiring and I hope you continue to be healthy! Prayers <3

  • fredntan
    fredntan Member Posts: 1,821
    edited August 2013

    AC is some strong shit.

    its nickname is between the devil and deep blue sea. I think adriamycin is red and cytoxin is blue.

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Fran - I believe it. I think she should be taking a little more time off work (she has a very good substitute who is willing to help anytime) - I know it's the beginning of school but it's been hard on her so far and this is her first treatment. Hopefully, however, it will work! That's most important!

  • Luah
    Luah Member Posts: 1,541
    edited August 2013

    Chemo weakens the immune system (hopefully she is not teaching very young children who spread a lot of germs) and most people find AC very tough days 3-6. Is her chemo schedule synced to take advantage of weekends for down days? and maybe call on a substitute in addition as needed? Frankly, I think it would be very hard to teach while undergoing chemo, the SEs can be acute if you don't give yourself adequate rest. But I'm also a big believer in doing what gives you pleasure and emotional rewards -- so much as possible.  (For me, it was skiing, and my onc thought I was half crazy.)   

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    She is doing the infusion on Thursdays, and she is doing a shot to boost her immune system (I think) so she gets the AC treatment every 2 weeks. She teaches high school Math - when I spoke with her yesterday, she is strongly considering also taking off Monday's, which I think she should. She has a great substitute who can come in at any time and help her! In fact, them switching her to AC has given her lots more flexibility in time off because the T was scheduled weekly for 12 weeks. Her surgery will take a ton of time off, I know. She has also been trying to keep up running, which actually makes her feel better (while running anyhow). I just hope she takes the time she needs, the school has a sick "bank" she can use as well so I hope that she doesn't push it too much trying to just be strong. 

  • encyclias
    encyclias Member Posts: 302
    edited August 2013

    Tfosher, don't assume your sister will have any immediate side effects from the A/C chemo.  I went until the 3rd infusion (out of four) without any problems at all -- except for the hair loss.  After the 3rd, I found I had a normal energy level in the mornings to run errands, do some cleaning, etc.  But once the afternoon came, my legs began to wobble and the fatigue set in.  When I first noticed it, I headed over to the public library and took out a couple dozen books to entertain me during my resting.  Also, my wbc finally went down to low-normal range and I had a Neulasta shot (no side effects).  But I missed Thanksgiving dinner because of all the little kids who were going to be there from my SO's family.  I did have a bout with indigestion sometime around the 4th cycle, and took an over-the-counter med the dr recommended and it went away.  That was all.  My hair was even beginning to grow back during the 4th infusion.

    So this is what it can be, and your sister may be able to work around some of it.  Psychologically, I think work that she enjoys would be wonderful for her if she is feeling well and takes precautions.

    Carol

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Thanks Carol - 

    My sister has already had some pretty rough side effects from her first A/C treatment. She did 3 rounds of T first, then switched and it's been really hard. She has been extremely nauseous and her meds for it aren't helping much. Thankfully it's 1 down though right!! I think her working and being around people might actually be good though, She has a TON of support with the other teachers and coaches (her husband coaches FB). Thank you all for your support!

  • Luah
    Luah Member Posts: 1,541
    edited August 2013

    Tfosher: Have your sister insist with her onc that she needs stronger anti nausea meds... and be sure to take them as prescribed, don't wait until nausea appears. My onc and several other opinions I have heard have said that, with rare exception, there is really no excuse for women to be suffering with nausea in this day and age.  Glad her work environment is so supportive, makes all the difference.

  • Denise-G
    Denise-G Member Posts: 1,777
    edited August 2013

    I write a breast cancer blog and have heard from over 1,000 women.  Based on those posts, emails, correspondence - especially with Triple Negative patients, I have drawn this conclusion.  Very often with TN patients - one chemo will work better.  I've had letters from women whose tumors grew on Taxol and shrunk down to nothing with AC.  And I've had letters from women whose tumors grew with AC but shrunk to nothing with Taxol.   

    One letter I remember in particular where the woman's tumor kept growing and growing with Taxol.  The minute she switched to AC, it started shrinking!   By the time she got to surgery, it was gone!

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Thank you all for your awesome responses! I just heard from my sister today after her 3nd AC treatment. It doesn't appear it has shrunk but the dr doesn't think it's growing either. Still hopeful it will change before the next treatment! Prayers :)

  • encyclias
    encyclias Member Posts: 302
    edited August 2013

    Sending prayers for a super response to the 3rd treatment.

    Carol

  • Cpacino
    Cpacino Member Posts: 18
    edited August 2013

    That is the great thing about getting chemo first... The doctors can make sure to find the right drugs. I started off with A/c but my heart had a bad reaction so I was quickly switched to taxotere/cytoxin ended up having a PCR but because of me testing positive for the BRCA1 I had 3 additional chemo treatments Carboplatin/Gemzar... I'm only sharing this because I saw your sister is BRCA1+... Brca1 patients respond well to the carboplatin drugs... Many prayers and hugs

  • Tfosher
    Tfosher Member Posts: 14
    edited August 2013

    Can I ask how you would go about requesting the carboplatin drugs? I am not sure yet that the AC is working or will work and if it doesn't, I feel like it would be worth it for her to try to get the carboplatin drugs. I've heard this before and wasn't sure what to tell her to ask for. I wonder if it's something she should do before or after her surgery?

  • Cpacino
    Cpacino Member Posts: 18
    edited August 2013

    I fought for it! Advocated for myself from the beginning... Do your research and take it to her team... I never stopped asking for more chemo When it was looking like I was having a PCR I still harassed my team. Sent pictures of me with my kids...telling them to fight for me... I got the call from my oncologists 1 day before surgery to tell my surgeon not to take my port out...I would be getting more chemo! I had a PCR and 3 weeks after my BMX I started 3 rounds of carboplatin/Gemzar then did 6 weeks of rads. If she wants more start talking to her team now. Her Being brca1+ should be enough.

  • Normandee
    Normandee Member Posts: 48
    edited January 2014

    I had neoadjuvant chemo too - called FEC/Docetaxol. During the FEC part I was aware the tumours (I had multifocal) were shrinking and then they appeared to grow rapidly during the Docetaxol sessions. However my tumour markers were in the normal range and I was assured the Chemo was working. The pathology report confirmed shrinkage and although I did not have a complete response I had extensive fibrosis and scar tissue as a result of marked response.  I was told I achieved a partial response and the benefits of my chemo were sold to me as systemic treatment to mop up anything circulating.

    I also suffered 2 episodes of neutropenia, on the first and second dose of FEC and my oncologist informed me that, though scary, this was a good thing as it pointed to chemo working where it should. Apparently this has some prognostic value - I don't know if anyone else has heard this?

    I worried a lot about not achieving a complete response but concentrate more now  on the systemic benefits and the fact that I had no LVI and achieved clear margins.  2 years out I feel great and just get on with the joys of living.  Cancer helps us not to waste our time. I am grateful for that as I wasted so much previously on things that didn't matter. 

Categories