Supraclavicular radiation -- anyone have that?
Hi; I am new to this. My cancer was diagnosed as 'locally advanced' because at least 1 lymph node was positive for cancer (biopsy done at same time as lump biopsy) at time of breast cancer diagnosis. I started with chemotherapy because of that node. Then I had surgery to remove my lump plus a total of 35 lymph nodes were removed in the axilla (underarm) dissection. Only 1 of the 35 nodes was positive for cancer.
NOW I am getting set to start radiation therapy and my RO wants to do supraclavicular treatments in addition to the breast. The supraclavicular treatments are to radiate the lymph nodes at/near the collarbone (on same side as breast) in case any cancer escaped the axilla nodes (which are now all gone).
Initially I said yes to this but I have changed my mind after reading a few things on a discussion board (esophagal problems?) plus concern about the thyroid being damaged. Since no cancer was found in 34 of the 35 underam nodes and the clavicular nodes are downstream of those I really don't think cancer made it out of my underarm area (I don't think the cancer made it out of the one lymph node). My RO says the best standard of care is to irradiate the clavicular nodes (because you 'never know' -- but how do we know there isn't a cancer cell in my toe right now too??).
So I wanted to know if anyone faced this decision and decided 'no' on the clavicular treatments OR had the clavicular radiation and what the issues with that have been.
Thanks so much! (I have never posted on a discussion board before so I hope this works).
GMN
Comments
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I am very interested in replies as I am suppose to be getting this as well. I had my lumpectomy and snb on the 7th and haven't gotten my pathology yet. My surgeon does not think any nodes were involved but because I am triple negative radiologist wants to do whole breast axilla and supraclavicular. I'm really nervous about all possible SE.
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I had two out of 27 lymph nodes positive for macrometastases. I chose to go with regional node irradiation (included supraclavicular radiation) after being referred to the results of this study linked here -
http://oncolink.org/conferences/article.cfm?c=3&s=67&ss=348&id=2148
It is a hard decision to make, I did get a second opinion to help me out. I completed radiation mid-March 2013 and, to my knowledge, it has not had a negative impact on thyroid or esophagus.
Take care -
I had supraclavicular radiation. I have had some esophagus issues, but nothing major. I am glad I had the radiation.
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I finished supraclav radiation in Jan of this year. I too was very worried. I got through it fine with no issues. That area 'burned' a little more than my breast. My thyroid already started with problems well over a year ago (I actually suspect several years ago). I understood and accepted the need for radiating the supraclav. If not, I'd Have gone for the second opinion.
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Thanks for the quick responses! Websister many thanks for the link to that article. I found it useful. While I am trying to keep an open mind I am realize I am really looking for evidence to support my 'no' to the clavicular radiation.....the paper in the link does say that for women with low evidence of nodal involvement (1 - 3) the use of supraclavicle radiation needs more study (i.e it is not clear that the benefits are worth it).
So far I have accepted everything thrown at me (including second surgery to resolve the close margin question) but I am so scared of thyroid damage that I want to avoid the clavicular radiation.
Maybe my other question should be:. Has anyone suffered thyroid impacts (hypothyroidism?) and how have you fared?
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I got supraclavical rads and had no issues with that area. The area under the arms for nodes was much harder.
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When I was going ahead with rads the RO wanted to include the supraclavicular area. I researched and decided to not go ahead with rads on that area because I felt the benefits did not outweigh the risks.
My husband was very worried that I was not doing everything but when he asked the RO what would happen if I didn't have rads on that area and cancer came back in that area her reply was that then they could do rads. When asked what they would do if I'd already had rads on that area and then cancer came back in that area her reply was that then I would be in a difficult position because they would not be able to do rads again and I would have to rely on chemo. That helped my husband relax about my decision - knowing that if by some chance cancer does come back in that area we can do something about it, and if cancer never comes back in that area I won't have had treatment that has potentially serious long-term side effects.
Everyone rushes through all the treatment options one after another. There's sometimes no harm in slowing down and not doing it that way....
Jenn -
I have been hypothyroid for fifteen years, i had rads to supraclavicular and now need LESS thyroxine for first time ever! I burned a lot more there but had no other effects although i do think my taste buds have changed......but that ould be hormones. The effect on axilla area was worse and i swell there and it is very tight....
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Jennt28, is there any chance you could point me in the direction of your research? I am very interested in knowing % of risk in not radiating that area and having mets present.
Thank you for everyone's input, will be meeting my RO next fri with lots of questions. -
Hi slv58, what are micromets or mets??
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Gmn, I copied this from about breast cancer
Definition: Micrometastasis is a small collection of cancer cells that have been shed from the original tumor and spread to another part of the body. They can not be seen with any imaging tests such as mammogram, MRI, ultrasound, PET, or CT scans. These migrant cancer cells may group together and form a second tumor, which is so small that it can only be seen under a microscope. -
Hi all, I am interested in how you were presented with the choice to do the supraclavicular rads or not? I just found out that I am being irradiated from below the breast to half of the way up the neck, after I have done four treatments.
I had a very aggressive 9cm tumor and will do anything to live, so I would have said yes, but it is just odd that no one had informed me.
Just wondering when you were asked about it?
Thanks! -
I had regional node radiation (collarbone, breastbone, shoulderbone and underarm) following a left-sided lumpectomy with one positive node. I am two years out and have experienced no problems at all.
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Selenawolf, thank you! I am so nervous about this. Starting fri. and although my RO tried to assure me that SE are rare, I can't help worrying about thyroid, esophagus, heart, lung, lymphedema and ribs! I had clear nodes, but apparently because my tumour was "so large " (?) 3.3 cm my RO wants to be agressive. I was also blessed with PCR, so I guess I shouldn't back down now, I know triple negative is aggressive -I just have to accept being more aggressive!
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We all have tough decisions to make each step of the way it seems (and it seems everyone hears (or doesn't hear!) something different from the various doctors which makes it all the more confusing). There is no right or wrong choice.
For me I chose no clavicular radiation based on the facts: total of 34 lymph nodes removed from my armpit and only the one was positive for cancer. None of the other nodes showed any sign of cancer. I already had chemotherapy. The clavicular nodes are 'downstream' of the axilla nodes.. . so if no cancer in any of the nodes but 1 then how would it/could it get to nodes in my collarbone area? I am on Tamoxifen (ER/PR +). For me I decided that I had enough aggressive treatments already (8 rounds of chemo every 2 weeks; 2 surgeries which included full lymph node dissection of the axilla due to the one positive node -- that node was identified positive for cancer with a needle biopsy done at the same time as my lump needle biopsy so I started this whole journey with chemotherapy first). So now I believe that, for me, radiation to my clavicular nodes is just simply too much for no solid reason I could see. Rads to the breast has good stats for recurrence reduction but the jury is still out as to whether, for women with small tumours (mine was about 1cm) and only 1 - 3 axilla nodes involved, rads to the other regional nodes are of any benefit. Given the risks I decided they outweighed the benefits in my case. And I am at peace with that decision. Today will be treatment #2 with 19 more to go and I will be finished radiation and all treatments (except for the daily Tamoxifen - which I just realized I forgot to take this morning!).
But your case is unique to you and you must consider your circumstances and your situation and make the choice that works for you. There is no wrong choice. Whatever choice you make is the right one for you. Make peace with it, get through it, and live happily!
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This may be what I must face in the very near future. I had a radical mastectomy and 6 lymph nodes removed 6 years ago. (Stage 2b)i had 8 rounds of triple therapy chemo over 6 months but no radiation as only one node positive.
Today I found out my MRI is positive for a nodule in the axillary area and also the supraclavicular area. ( I have been having hand arm pain,numbness ,swelling and weaknes for month) I am to see an oncologist. So now I wished I had gone w/radiation back then. I did not do well w/chemo and only took hormone blockers for 18 months d/t side effects. I though at 5 years I could celebrate. Now I am drawn back in to that quamire of confusion and fear. These SE you mentioned worry me but not as much as more chemo does.
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Hi Grammy, gosh I am so sorry. Do they know it is a recurrence and not a lymph node lighting up for some reason?
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I should qualify my statement. I have experienced very few and minor problems.
During radiation treatment, I got very fatigued and, of course, my skin burnt, but it was not unsimilar to a sunburn: itchy, prickly and red. I didn't have any trouble with peeling or weeping; I used the Glaxo base cream my RO recommended religiously. What I have noticed is that, although my skin healed well, it's still a little more reactive than the skin that hasn't been irradiated; it burns in the sun quicker, it reacts to certain skin products that I never had problems with before, it takes a bit longer to heal if I get - for example - an insect bite.Today, I am as active as I was before treatment: I walk; I cycle 20-30 miles per week; I play baseball; and garden. I have noticed no issues as yet with my heart, lungs or lymphadema.
"... good girls never made history ..."
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All I know right now is the neuroogist who ordered the Brachial Plexus MRI called and said ( I also read written report that shows a 6cm nodule in axilla area and a "Subtle nodular enhancing soft tissue in the right supraclavicular
region abutting the right subclavian vein and artery concerning for possible nodal disease"I am in process of finding the best ONC for this in Seattle area. I realize doing surgery near the vein and artery would not be possible.
I am close to my son and family here but miss all my Fl friends since I moved.
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I was not consulted on supraclavicular radiation at my treatment center. I am getting it and found out when I complained of sudden, significant difficulty and pain with swallowing. I have 17 of 33 treatments to go. I have fatigue (do-able so far), some skin irritation (very minor) and this just came up. I think this will be the biggest issue unless the fatigue gets much worse. I don't like eating just soft foods. I want my steak!
I had 3 positive nodes on my SNB, had ALND with all negative nodes but have triple negative disease so they are being very aggressive with my treatment. They recommend a numbing medication to swallow before each meal and treating symptomatically. They will, if I insist, give me a treatment holiday. I do not want to drag this out any longer! I have already been in treatment since Jan. 3. Enough is enough! I want to be finished with this!!!! Unless I can't eat I will continue and finish on time.
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I find it shocking that you women were not fully consulted on your treatment plans. My RO fully disclosed all aspects which enabled me to, like gmn_canada, choose not to have the supra-clavicular rads. I just didn't feel the risks, short and long term, outweighed the benefits.
Please ask your MOs to outline those risks for you so you can watch out for problems in the future...
Jenn -
So sad that we even have to struggle over these decisions but we ladies should come to a plan that is the right one for us. Everyone is a little different. I could care less what research they may want to do at this point. I am to start radiation a the end of the week. Not sure how extensive. I know part will be a similar area to yours. All I can tell you is that I had Stage 2b w/one pos sentinal lymph node. I had 6 months of chemo ( it has pretty halted my nursing career after a year) I did not get radiation Tx, though it was suggested then they agreed not necessry since just one node. Now its back . In retrospect I wish I had gone w/rads first instead of chemo as I may have been able to continue working longer. I would gladly never eat a steak again ( we eat too much meat anyway) as long as I could eat and taste something. Stopping my arm and shoulder pain is top of the list right now so we will see. Hang in there my thoughts are with you and I sure will be asking plenty of questions when I see the Rad Onc.
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Sciencegal -yep I had the node biopsy a week ago and came back pos for same estrogen related ca as before.
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I just had #14 of 33 treatments that includes the supra clavicular area. I had a positive node with a 4mm macromet. It's probably too soon to know yet what long term side effects will come from it but wouldn't feel comfortable not doing all that I could. I think about that positive node all the time and pray to God that between the chemo and radiation that I and my family will never have to go through this again. I outweighed which risks I was more willing to take. I want to get rid of all of the cancer.
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Similar history to mine LW. I am wondering why a 3rd chemo drug was not used w/you. I also had Adriamycin along w/Taxol and Cytoxan. I was 58 at the time. Now 65 w/return. Quality of life , age and many other factors need to be taken in to account on each case. I yet again am facing a stanger as my Onc doctors ( how can they possibly know much about me except what they read.) On paper I should have been gone a long time ago. I moved 8 months across country and have only my Medicare HMO who gave me a choice of 2 Rad Spec .Today I was informed he would not be seeing me tomorrow so am stuck w/only one choice now. A young and maybe not so experienced Dr.
AS far as radiation I am not concerned too much about long term effects as I may not be around " long term". First time around I knew nothing and only read the absolute minimum, was to terrified. At least I am facing this w/a better total picture.
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Hi grammy, Gosh I am so sorry you are going through this.
Please dont be too worried about a younger doctor- they are more up-to-date on the new studies and statisitcs, and clincial trials, than a lot of the older doctors. I work at a medical school and the new fresh energetic doctors are really good almost all of the time these days. The schools are so competitive that they have to work super hard and be really good to get through.
I am sure wishing you the very best.
hugs -
Well I met the Rad Onc yesterday and got some of the marking done. ( It will be entered in to a simulator before we start) Doc had such a low soothing voice which kept me somewhat calmer feeling. He turned out to be the chief and IS older. It will be 5 days a week for 5 1/2 weeks. Cannot get started for at least 2 more weeks which is frustrating as I have been in pain for over 2 month now. Anyway it will give me chance to eat some good meals before starting-right. Today I shopped for some comfortable tops as softest I presume best near the affected skin.
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Linda2012 please keep us updated on how you are doing.My daughter in law gave me her"Bullet" blender yesterday which she had never used. I had sloughing of tissue on the roof of my mouth 6 years ago when I first had chemo, I know this may be similar or worse so I want to be prepared. Stock up the fridge w/something easy to get down. I have a rough time even taking large pills so it may be babyfood time..ha..
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Jenn, I agree with you. I was diagnosed with Stage IIIa ILC of the right breast in 2000. Had a modified radical mastectomy and axillary dissection followed by chemo (A/C and Taxol) and six weeks of radiation. I didn't realize that I had had supraclavicular radiation until yesterday, when I went to see my RO about a new primary tumor in the supraclavicular area. He said he may be able to do aother round of rads focusing tightly on the tumor, but it will be risky. I have not noticed any long term adverse effects from the original rads (although I do have a sort of "smokers' cough" although I don't smoke, and after reading this thread I wonder if it could be related to the rads) but it didn't protect me from a recurrence either. There are no guarantees in life or medicine, so if GMN or anyone else decides the risks of a particular treatment aren't worth the potential benefit, I would support their decision.
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Dorian - I see you noted your hormone status as changed between original Dx and this new one. Kinda makes me wonder if they should have treated you with Herceptin earlier. Mine is same ER Pos. Repeat Rads may depend a little on your age as far as long term effects. I am 65 now and did not get rads first time around. My repeat chest CT already shows damage to the upper tip of right lung where RADS done. I am also a non smoker no cough. I would for sure mention that to your Onc and maybe a MRI to be sure no mets.Good news is that my node hasben zapped and no others seen.
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