Question about arm LE

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Lainey64
Lainey64 Member Posts: 740
edited June 2014 in Lymphedema

I was recently diagnosed with mild LE almost 5 yrs post surgery.  I was told that it is still in the mild stage and I’m now wearing a sleeve most days to keep the swelling under control.  Everyone here knows that it isn’t fun at all but something that needs to be done.  Other than the aching pain I get at night, I can almost forget about it until someone asks about the sleeve, etc.  

Well, it got me thinking though about my arm and the issues I’ve had with it since surgery.  Prior to having surgery done, no one (my doctor included) ever told me that my upper arm would be forever numb afterward.  I remember laying on my bed in a pain killer induced haze and feeling my upper arm and feeling “nothing”.  I called my doctor and they told me that was normal after node removal because nerves were cut and that some feeling should come back.  Well, the backside of my arm is still numb and I don’t think much feeling has returned.  I was told that was normal.  Ever since then whenever I’ve exerted any amount exercise or activity with my left arm, that numb area has the weirdest sensation and I have the urge to rub it and work the tingles away.  I really can’t describe the feeling to anyone who hasn’t experienced it.  I’m hoping that you all will understand what I’m talking about.   I’ve had the L-Dex test done several times since then with no indication of LE , until now. 

I am just wondering if anyone else has had these weird sensations in their affected arm prior to becoming diagnosed with LE?  Could this has been a precursor to the LE coming on?  Sorry I’m rambling, but like I said, it’s so hard to describe! Frown

Comments

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited July 2013

    I have very mild LE in my left arm and like yours, the underside is still numb, 2 years post bmx. I do occasionally get weird tingling or "zapping" sensations. It's almost like these are nerve misfires. This has to going on since my bmx so I'm not sure if it was a precursor to LE or just a part of the surgical legacy. I only wear my sleeve for air travel or in very hot humid weather. I'd be happy if I could maintain it at this level.

  • Lainey64
    Lainey64 Member Posts: 740
    edited July 2013

    I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around this whole thing.  I don't know if that will ever be possible though!  Thanks for the your reply.  It really helps!

  • ahdjdbcjdjdbkf
    ahdjdbcjdjdbkf Member Posts: 645
    edited July 2013

    I have mild lymphedema too - I tend to be 0.5-1.0 cm larger on my lymphedema side. I find this is the case whether or not I wear the sleeve. I was very committed to wearing it for a while and my situation pretty much remained status quo - for which I'm very grateful. My arm and hand feel heavy, weird, and swollen often and I get odd sensations in between the numbness. Wearing a bra for a long time + alcohol seem to set my condition off the most.  A long work day at a conference with alcohol will cause my arm to swell. The occasional sleeve brings it back in line. I live in Florida where it is always hot and humid and that doesn't seem to impact me. I wear the sleeve for air travel. I thought I was doomed to life in a sleeve but finding out it didn't help much...well I gave myself a reprieve from it.

  • lady_pak
    lady_pak Member Posts: 8
    edited July 2013

    Hi,

    My recent Ultrasound result showed two small cysts/fluid blocks of size in 0.2-0.1 cm. Is it Lymphedema ? I have to consult my Suergon , My pathalogict refered me to him again.

    kindly guide,

    thanks

  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited July 2013

    Lady, hello,

    I've not encountered this before, but I'll hazard a guess. The cysts themselves are not related to lymphedema, but if they're blocking lymph flow, then the condition of swelling and lymph fluid stagnation would be lymphedema. If the cysts were to be somehow removed without further damage to the lymph system, you might expect the lymphedema to be (at least temporarily) "cured".

    Do keep us posted on how you're doing! Gentle hugs,
    Binney

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2013

    "that numb area has the weirdest sensation and I have the urge to rub it and work the tingles away.  I really can’t describe the feeling to anyone who hasn’t experienced it.  I’m hoping that you all will understand what I’m talking about."

    "I am just wondering if anyone else has had these weird sensations in their affected arm prior to becoming diagnosed with LE?  Could this has been a precursor to the LE coming on?"

    Lainey, I know EXACTLY how you feel with this. Additionally to what youre describing, sometimes theres a deep itch (aka tingles???) that you cant "get at". The only way I can relieve it is by pushing fairly firmly on the spot which is hard to find because its numb on the surface. From time to time I also have a "burning strip" down the underside of my upper arm. I dont believe for me at least, this was a precursor to LE even though it happened before LE Dx.. I am 4yrs out from Mx and it is no different whatsoever from the time I generally had healed after surgery to now. I was told numbness is part of it. For some, numbness allegedly gets better over time, but I must admit I'm skeptical. I dont remember anyone saying their numbness has gone or got a lot better. (after the intial healing of surgery)

    All the best.

  • Denise-G
    Denise-G Member Posts: 1,777
    edited July 2013

    I have LE that fluctuates.  I have to wear a sleeve during the day.  But I still get those weird nerve tingles and inner itching in the numb areas all the time.  My Onc said I may get them forever as it takes YEARS for nerves to try and regenerate. 

    Have you ever had phantom breast pain or itch?  I had an MX no reconstruction in Nov. 2011.  Last Sunday, I had phantom itch in the breast that is not there.  That is the weirdest!  It is itching about 3 inches out in the air where there is NOTHING!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2013

    Denise I believe theres a number of women spoken about this sensation. One thing is for sure, with a Mx there is a lot of trauma to the area and nothing would surprise me. Nerves are "funny" things and as Lainey says, its very hard to describe and understand unless youve had it yourself. I most certainly have had, though not often, that dang breast itch. What used to annoy me above all was when I was a uni, and had to wear a prossy (not small) the metal part in the strap used to DRIVE ME NUTS digging into my numb shoulder. Now Im bilat, and no reco, its great cause for celebration as thats one less problem I have to face.

    BTW your av is lovely. You have a lovely smile.

    All the best.

  • Lainey64
    Lainey64 Member Posts: 740
    edited July 2013

    Musicial,

    YES, It's that burning sensation I'm talking about.  I knew someone here would know exactly what I'm talking about.  I didn't think it was related to the LE either.   Weird, but I also get that "deep itch" feeling.  I even get it in my affected breast.  The radiation damaged nerves and I have no sensation in some areas and that's where I get that annoying itch.  There just is no scratching it because it's "inside". 

    Thanks for helping me realize that I'm not CRAZY!  lol

    XOXO

  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited July 2013

    I get the phantom itch, in my case it's always the right reconstructed breast in the spot formerly known as a nipple. Only scratching or massaging does nothing, because I have zero sensation there, so I know that the itch feeling is a phantom one.  Ick.  I do get a burning sensation when I should be in compression but am not wearing it.  When lymph moves to my back, below and around the shoulder blade, it's almost always a burning feeling that signals me.  Then when I reach (well, contort!) around to touch the area, sure enough it feels squishy, and sometimes I can see the swelling, sometimes not.  So for me, the burning feeling always means LE.  I also sometimes feel some itching on my arm alongside the burn.  And of course, I have a fiesta of numb spots, in the arm and nearby from node removal, in much of the reconstructed breast tissue, and along the ab incision line where the diep flaps came from.

    It's really important to take a look at these areas from time to time, because I would not know from any feeling if I had an injury. Living as I do in the woods, I have to make sure I'm not missing any insect bites that could turn wicked on me. Ticks are a fact of life around here. So my routine out of the shower is to use two mirrors to see if anything is lurking behind my arm and on my back, especially after being outdoors in the garden or hiking.  In the 'old' days, all I ever used those mirrors for was to check my hair!

  • Linda-n3
    Linda-n3 Member Posts: 2,439
    edited July 2013

    There are several nerves that are cut during surgery and ALND, and any of them can result in neuropathic pain as they try to heal or fail to heal. I have had difficulty with the numbness and the pain, so bad that I cannot wear my sleeve to the appropriate level on my arm, cannot bear certain types of material touching it, anything with small sleeve openings (including most bras) cause pain in that area. I have had several injections of that nerve, which was visualized with ultrasound by an interventional pain specialist, and have had great relief from the pain, but not the numbness. Anyone with phantom pains or other neuropathic pain from procedures and surgery might benefit from seeing an interventional pain specialist as they can determine whether there is something you can do about it or not.

  • Linda-n3
    Linda-n3 Member Posts: 2,439
    edited July 2013

    By the way, this is NOT a precursor to LE as far as I know from my research. LE is from damage to the lymph vessels, nodes, and blocking of the lymph flow. As far as I know, the nerves do not impact lymph flow, but muscle movements do help get the lymph into the small lymph vessels, but when the lymphatic vessels are over loaded, such as with too much exercise or change in atmospheric pressure, the fluid gets backed up and needs to be treated in order to get the swelling down.

  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited July 2013

    Linda, does the neuropathic pain come and go, and is it in any way influenced by what is going on separately, with LE?  In other words, if a woman has an LE flare that adds lymph and makes the arm sore from excess fluid, would that somehow press on a nerve and make the neuropathic pain worse..or trigger the neuropathic pain?  I'm just wondering.  I have aches as my primary and most constant LE symptom, and they definitely show up when I know I've overdone activity with my arm, or from atmospheric pressure or hot and humid weather. Just wondering if there's a second cause of the arm pain --for me it's a serious ache, but not a sharp pain--that I never considered.  Had 5 nodes removed from the axilla, so I suppose what you're describing is possible.

    I learn something new every day in this forum.

    Carol

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2013

    OK guys for me, I have to clarify this. Bear in mind I havent had reco so it might be something synonymous with that. Thinking about it I can't figure out what you all mean by "phantom". Im thinking with me at least, this is REAL, whereas "phantom" has the implication its not really real. With me, it is physical and if there was a machine to measure whether youre actually itching, burning or what, then that machine would be off the scale in my case (well, at times).  No phantom (in the mind???) itch. Now Im considering you reco girls. This is just me thinking aloud, OK....?.... Now the skin etc where your nipple was and which is over your implant, still has nerves right? therefore your itching must be real. Just a thought. Also it would drive you NUTS if it was under your implant (grrrr) which could quite likely be the case. What Denise describes I'm at a loss to explain except nerves are strange things, but what we feel is real.

    Lainey of course youre not crazy! more than that I would say we would (unfortunately) be by far in the majority who experience issues like deep itching, burning, tingling etc. I'd like to hear if there is anyone who doesn't have issues after surgery and LN out.

    Carol, those double mirrors! what a great idea. I must admit I get cheesed off that I have to spend so much time with BC and all its aftermath that I try and take shortcuts and I guess thats one of them. I really should look. Ive really got no excuse coz Ive got D.Mirrors except they aint in the most convenient place. (it means I'll get cold while I look.)

    Linda sometimes I get that burning pain around where those grippy dots are on my sleeve. Usually I just have to take my sleeve off at that point and it usually  feels better pretty much straight away.

  • Lainey64
    Lainey64 Member Posts: 740
    edited July 2013

    Ewww, I don't like double mirrors.  I try to avoid looking at my backside as much as possible...haha  But I know it's a necessity!


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2013

    Carol, it seems Im always trying to find the balance between too much and not enough arm exercise. The problem with me is Im NOT a "spead it over the day and do it little by little" person, but a "bore in and do it NOW to get it over and done with" type, so I can do other things (like the things I like doing Smile ). Then after all that, things arent consistent around the year. Theres busy times in the garden and quiet times. I like a certain amount of structure and routine otherwise these things can throw me off base. No wonder they call this our new normal and all this can have a bearing on LE.

    Ive found that when I get that heavy horrible ache, 9 times out of 10 those fist pumps and other exercises actually help. Also a bit of a good workout in the garden has helped as well, including spade work. I shudder to think that some women have had issues after lifting a few measly pounds. The thing thats hard to fathom is what was OK yesterday might not necessarily be OK tomorrow....or, what we got away with in the past we can no longer get away with.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2013

    Lainey, lol, yeah sometimes the views not that flattering but oh well...you gotta do what you gotta do Smile .

  • Helensamia123
    Helensamia123 Member Posts: 48
    edited July 2013

    Having had Lymphoedema in my leg for 11 years I get all sorts of wired feelings.. Tingling, pins and needles and numbness and it is when you get all that together it feels really wired!!! They say it is pressure on the nerves from the Lymphoedema..

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