Reconstruction after RADIATION

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patriciahurtado
patriciahurtado Member Posts: 489
edited June 2020 in Breast Reconstruction

i wanted to start this topic because i cant find alot of information about it.....I had BXM on March 2013 which had infection on the right side of the TE for 2 months ....had TE removed on June 2013 do to the delayed of infection couldnt start with radiation.....I will start RADIATION on July.....i have one TE on and nothing no the other side.....the side that has no TE will be radiated ......my PS said that skin will be flexible for TE but i read alot and its harder to work on radiated skin.....So i was wondering has anyone had reconstruction on the radiated skin...please let me know.... 

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Comments

  • kestrelgurl
    kestrelgurl Member Posts: 266
    edited June 2013

    Patricia,

    I had my exchange surgery on June 7th after BMX and 28 bouts of radiation. I found a PS who suggested some small fat grafts into the radiated tissue at 3 month intervals prior to putting in TE's. Plan was that the fat grafts would help stimulate new tissue growth and "soften" things up.

    I had two grafts over 6 months, then TE's for 4 months prior to exchange. So far things are doing great and I am very pleased.

    I think the keys for me were staying "small" with a 255 gummy implant, general overall great health and patience. It was a long haul, but was all worth it.

    Initially I was told that a lat flap was my only option......so I am very happy with the way things worked out.

  • Michele2013
    Michele2013 Member Posts: 350
    edited June 2013

    Patricia, Thank you for starting this thread.



    My bs left a lot of skin. I am really hoping my ps will schedule my TE's after I see him next month. That means it will be a month after getting done with rads. I started aquafor before rads and even though I am done, still apply twice a day. Drink lots of water!!!!!! I am sure it helps with elasticity.



    Kestrelgurl, wow that was a long process. Glad your happy. What is inside the gummy implant???



    Gentle hugs

  • kestrelgurl
    kestrelgurl Member Posts: 266
    edited June 2013

    Michele,

    It was, but could have been worse. Originally PS had said 3 fat graft procedures, but he was so pleased with results after the first 2 we moved on to TE's. So I skipped at least 3 months.

    FWIW, my BS left no spare skin as I originally planned not to reconstruct. I had to start from scratch.

    Gummies are the anatomical 410 cohesive silicon implants.....much better at avoiding the 1/2 a grapefruit look on a boney chest. Laughing

  • lbrewer
    lbrewer Member Posts: 766
    edited June 2013

    a lot of rad women have natural reconstruction.  There are some surgeons in Miami who do DIEP and you might want to look into the Breast Reconstruction center in Charleston SC.  There is a thread here called Charleson Bound.  I had DIEP on my left side 4 years ago and am having SGAP on my right due to a recurrence and radiation.  Latissmus dorsi flaps are also very common after radiation but I was not willing to sacrifice my muscel/

  • Michele2013
    Michele2013 Member Posts: 350
    edited June 2013

    Is diep the fat grafting procedure? I have to go back to work, so any downtime (healing) has to be at a minimal. What is SGAP?? So much information...thank you

  • kestrelgurl
    kestrelgurl Member Posts: 266
    edited June 2013

    I took 3 weeks off work after my TE surgery and only one week after exchange. I work in a running store, so not sitting at a desk.

  • patriciahurtado
    patriciahurtado Member Posts: 489
    edited June 2013

    Thank you for all the prompt respond ..... Today I went for my simulation and will start radiation some time in July .... But I do have some extra skin .... So I hope that helps...... Michele2013 I did purchase the aquapor.... Very grease.... I also would like gummies.....

  • jacee
    jacee Member Posts: 1,384
    edited June 2013

    I had radiation then had bilateral DIEP. DIEP is a muscle sparing natural flap reconstruction using abdominal tissue, veins and arteries and moving to the breast area. You can read about all the flap procedures as well as others at my PS website. Dr Massey in Charleston. www.drmarga.com

  • patriciahurtado
    patriciahurtado Member Posts: 489
    edited June 2013

    Jace.... How do they look.... And feel... Do you live there or did you arrange traveling over there??

  • Raelan
    Raelan Member Posts: 200
    edited June 2013

    Like Kestrelgurl, I intend to use fat grafting to my radiated side BEFORE putting in TE's.  I had a skin sparing BMX and finished radiation September 2012.  I've been using prothesis since that time.  My first fat grafting session is scheduled for the end of August.  My PS indicated he intends to do a couple of fat grafting sessions, and is targeting a total of 200cc's of fat in each side.  I'm 5'4", 135 pounds, so don't have enough fat for a DIEP.  I was fairly busty before (34DD), so have extra skin on both sides to work with.  I'm hoping for something in the range of a 34C when all is said and done. 

    This is a relatively new procedure, and there's no empirical evidence out there yet that suggests this procedure works over the long-haul....just anecdotal like Kestregurl.  However, I've decided I'm willing to be a guineau pig if it ultimately results in being able to avoid a more invasive surgery. 

  • jacee
    jacee Member Posts: 1,384
    edited June 2013

    Patricia.....they look and feel very normal. I did travel to Charleston 3 times, then to NOLA for nipple tattoos with Vinnie. My insurance covered everything after I asked for an in network exception. It does require about 8-10 days for Stage 1 at the location of surgery.

  • Michele2013
    Michele2013 Member Posts: 350
    edited June 2013

    Raelan-I am confused, if you had the skin sparing why would you have to have fat grafted. My ps is going to place tissue expanders in me and then the exchange.



  • Raelan
    Raelan Member Posts: 200
    edited June 2013

    Michele - The fat grafting is to help heal the damaged radiated tissue so I have a better chance of the implants being successful. My options are somewhat limited since I don't have a lot of excess fat for two flaps, and need more than a B cup to help balance out my frame. Because of the high failure rate of implants and radiated tissue my PS won't do implants without finding a way to bring in fresh tissue either via LD flap, or in my case experimenting with fat grafting.


  • BayouBabe
    BayouBabe Member Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2013

    My surgeon is doing fat grafting at the same time as my exchange surgery. Possibly more at a later date as well when I have my nipple procedure. However, my skin held up very well during radiation. I also had expanders in at time of radiation. My radiated side was filled 70 ccs over the other side - just in case of any tightening during/after radiation.

    Another surgeon I consulted with wanted to do fat grafting as well, but months before the actual exchange surgery. I want to get these TE out ASAP; hope I am making the right choice.



    Originally, I was not expected to have radiation, but due to small margins, that plan changed quickly. Thus, they filled my TEs VERY quickly. Not a pleasant experience! From my research, there are so many different ideas out there on the proper way to proceed with radiated skin - but it is a definite possibility! Go to several plastic surgeons and don't give up until you find one you are comfortable with and who has experience with radiated tissue. They are out there! Best of luck to you during radiation. Find some aloe vera gel and use it several times a day - I think this is what helped my skin come out the way it did.

  • Raelan
    Raelan Member Posts: 200
    edited June 2013

    The whole area of fat grafting is certainly evolving, particularly as it pertains to radiated tissue.  My PS indicated that this has been the BIG topic of discussion at the last two annual PS conventions he's attended.  Apparently, there's one PS in Italy who's getting outstanding results with this type of approach (radiation first, then fat grafting followed by TE's and implants).  However, he cautioned that you have to have a full understanding of the Italian approach to breast cancer surgery, which is to leave a pretty thick skin envelope.  He states while this is great for the reconstruction process, he's not so sure how good it is for fending off risk of reoccurrence.  

    I'm considered an "early adopter" of this new method.  Which means, it may work, and it may not.  There are some PS's who believe using fat grafting for radiated tissue will become the gold standard in the future, however, at this point it's really a matter of tickling out where the benefit begins and where it ends.  Still a lot of unknowns.

    I'm one of a couple of women in my PS's practice who are experimenting with this.  I really do hope it works because it will provide yet another option for women who've had to undergo radiation (which I believe is on the increase).  

  • rozem
    rozem Member Posts: 1,375
    edited June 2013

    i wanted to weigh in on the discussion on FT for helping radiated breasts accept an implant.  My friend had this done (wish i had gone this route).  From my understanding this is not a straight fat graft like you would get if you were just filling in after reconstruction.  The procedure harvests stem cells from the fat removed and they inject a greater portion of fat plus stem cells into the radiated breast.  I can tell you at the hospital where my friend had it done, 50 women have undergone the procedure and none have rejected the implant (although the follow up is not that long).  They encouraged her to stay at a B cup to make extra sure the implant would be ok.  She is on the expander part and doing fine.

  • BayouBabe
    BayouBabe Member Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2013

    This is the procedure my surgeon uses. I will be getting a concentration of fat stem cells, but during the exchange surgery. Got my fingers crossed. Flap surgery is not for me for a ton of reasons. This is my one shot. I am a nervous wreck awaiting my surgery date.

  • patriciahurtado
    patriciahurtado Member Posts: 489
    edited June 2013

    My ladies I see there is hope and options its jus so scary when your PS just says lets wait until radiiation is over and other options besides flap... Or DIEP.........I'm going to look for a different PS that is familiar with fat grafting... More research about it...

  • kestrelgurl
    kestrelgurl Member Posts: 266
    edited June 2013

    Raelan and rozem,

    This is exactly the procedure I had and my PS also referenced the Dr from Italy. I am very happy with my results thus far and was thrilled to have a non-flap option. I never intended to be bigger than a B cup and feel that this procedure was perfect for me. I do have pictures posted on the picture forum if you have access. I need to post new photos as I think things are settling nicely.

  • Michele2013
    Michele2013 Member Posts: 350
    edited June 2013

    Raelan, did you have skin problems with the radiated side?



    I was just so thrilled that my 2nd opinion said he could do it, te then exchange. He did say however, the smaller I go the better the outcome.

  • lbrewer
    lbrewer Member Posts: 766
    edited June 2013

    Since you are in Miami look into the BRAVA method as well.  Dr. Khouri is the Dr. developing that method and his office is off Galloway RD.

    Statistically I was told LAT flaps are the most common reconstruction after radiation.  IMplants alone do not have a very high sucess rate.  I think its about a 60-80% failure.  Lat flaps use part of your muscle and an implant but they do not have the down time of DIEPs and other flaps.

  • Michele2013
    Michele2013 Member Posts: 350
    edited July 2013

    Ok, I am set for this Thursday to have expanders placed. My radiated side looks really good.



    April 1st mastectomy

    April 22nd thyroidectomy

    July 12th hysterectomy

    July 25th expanders



    Almost done ladies!!!!!!!!

  • ahdjdbcjdjdbkf
    ahdjdbcjdjdbkf Member Posts: 645
    edited July 2013

    I had chronic problems with my implant on my radiated side until it finally had to come out. My surgeon is regarded amongst the top in the country in this field and he couldn't make it work for me. He did multiple revisions and tried antibiotics and washing the implant. Nope. The radiated skin and area wouldn't accept it. I'm headed for a latissimus dorsi flap to resolve my uniboob situation.

  • patriciahurtado
    patriciahurtado Member Posts: 489
    edited July 2013

    Michelle2013 I hope that everything works out great please keep us posted so we can help other ladies with same issue ....... I for one still on radiation it's my 2nd week and skin still looks good .... Can you please tell me what did you use to keep the radiated side to help with the reconstruction .... I lube 3 to 4 times a day with miaderm, aloe vera gel, rosewater then lanolin to seal the deal ... one of the ladies here used it and her skin was intact so ill try it .....I don't wear anything but shorts lol... My hubby works all day and my daughter is in college or working .... But when they get home I put something on even though they say they don't mind .... But they don't need to be looking at it'!!!

  • patriciahurtado
    patriciahurtado Member Posts: 489
    edited July 2013

    Michelle2013 you also had hysterectomy done?.... Well I have get that done too... I'm BRACA 2 so I have the appt on September any advise??

  • mary625
    mary625 Member Posts: 1,056
    edited July 2013

    Patricia--you are using all of the right stuff for your skin BUT there's nothing you can do about the effect on your pectoral muscle and chest wall.  I had radiation in March/April 2012, and while my skin is fine and very usable per the PS, my pectoral muscle is so tight on that side that I have to stretch it almost daily.  I have not had any recon yet, and I can't imagine putting a tissue expander and then an implant behind the pectoral muscle on that side.  It's really bothering me today.  I do not have the same tightness on my prophylactic side.  I'm sure it's due to radiation unfortunately.

  • Michele2013
    Michele2013 Member Posts: 350
    edited July 2013

    Hi ladies, I left the hospital Friday evening. The TE placement went well. Sleeping is challenging now, the pain pump is wearing off.



    Hey there Patricia-I kept using the aquafor up until my surgery date and I always had a bottle of water in front of me.



    Yes brac2+, my hysterectomy went very well. No problems at all and no incisions. Honestly I feel so much better getting rid of my uterus. I was tender for a week.

  • hollyboo
    hollyboo Member Posts: 89
    edited July 2013

    I had mastectomy a couple weeks ago and am starting radiation (25 tx) soon.  The margin was positive for the tumor closest to my chest wall and that tumor was the most aggressive one of the four (pliomorphic), which is why I am having radiation. (Can't get proper margin without taking muscle.  The fascia of the muscle was taken during mastectomy.)

    The PS told me I need to lower my BMI to 30 to 32 before consideration for reconstruction.  Therefore, I need to lose 90 pounds, which will be a challenge but a benefit to my health for sure.  I am (was) quite busty and now look very funny being concave on one side and still busty on the other, so I am hoping for reconstruction.  Inserts float high on me while my busty side pulls way down in my soft bras.  That is even funnier looking than concave/busty combo.  

    Here is the tough part.  The radiation oncologist told me that the PS wrote in his notes: No reconstruction.  I wonder if that is because it is only his current recommendation or whether the fact that I cannot have anything from my belly taken as I had hysterectomy (uterine cancer) last fall or because I am in my mid sixties.  I will clarify with him, but I really had the feeling that for some reason he did not like me.  (And people tend to like me from the get go.)

    So, have any of you had single mastectomy, been busty, older and overweight and eventually had reconstruction?  I am wondering if I am plumb out of luck.

    Thanks.  This has been quite a journey and I wish I had found you all earlier!

    HollyBoo

  • BayouBabe
    BayouBabe Member Posts: 2,221
    edited July 2013

    Hollyboo - run from this plastic surgeon. Do you have time to get a second opinion before you start radiation, or even during?

  • hollyboo
    hollyboo Member Posts: 89
    edited July 2013

    I am seriously thinking about this.  Why do you suggest before radiation?  I will do that if the PS's opinion might affect the radiation tx!

    Thanks for your quick response!

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