Tamoxifen causing diabetes??
I was diagnosed yesterday with type 2 diabetes and my doc says it's probably because of the Tamoxifen. Apparently estrogen regulates your insulin levels...so if you don't have any...you can get diabetes. My sugar was ok the first 2 years on it, but started to go wonky last fall. I'm bummed. Anyone else have this happen to them? I've seen comment threads in the Aromatase group but not Tamoxifen....cancer, the gift that keeps on giving...
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Dang mimi that is a bummer. I am on Tamoxifen too. I was switched from Arimidex a year ago because I have osteoporsis and Arimidex attacks the bones. Where you having any symptoms for Diabetes? I have a friend who has it and found out by the dr running a test for something else. She had no idea. That is really scary. We are damned if we do and damned if we dont. I have a blood profile done at my annual visit with my ob-gyn which is coming up again in a few months. My sugar levels have been good so far too. This visit may be the ONE then. I am 2 1/2 years out from DX. So is your dr thinking you should get off the Tamoxifen...I realize it is too late to prevent diabetes but we both know there are a number of SEffects with this drug. Diane
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I think if you are predisposed to diabetes the tamox or AI's will excelerate it. I've had genetic type 2 for over 20 years and I think that was one of the facters that led to a BC Dx.?? I try to control it with meds, diet and exercise but life gets in my way. That is one of the reasons I don't take any antihormonals. I take DIM and a Rx'ed herbal TEA to get rid of the "bad"estrogenes. I hope that works. We know the drugs DO work to take away our hormones and hopefully stop progression. I'm taking a big chance, I am comfortable with my decision. Maureen
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I'm genetically predisposed and sure 5 years on Arimidex excellerated it. I control it by diet, so far. One of the MOST IMPORTANT things I learned is to NOT USE AGAVE. I know there is a lot of hype about its being "good for you" low glycemic, etc. I bought the hype, until I learned the truth watching my fasting blood glucose go up.
I drink a lot of tea, and was using several teaspoons of Agave a day. FBG dropped by about 25 points when I stopped it completely. Now use a little honey, and the difference is amazing. I also use bitter melon supplements, several others to support blood glucose - all heath foods stores have them.
Expect you already know the A1C test is MUCH MORE ACCURATE than the fasting blood glucose test.
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I bought the HYPE on agave too.I normally use pure maple syrup to sweeten but it is a bit pricey so I use agave on occasion. Not any more. Thanx for the heads up on the agave. If only I can get rid of my sweet tooth. I dehydrate fruit to try and mimic candy but it needs a sweet boost so I tossed the fruit in agave first. I'll try honey. Did you ever try to cook w bitter melon. yuk. A girl in my kitchen (when I was working) made me treats everyday, Indian fare. My fav was the bitter melon. crispy and not bitter at all, I cannot duplicate it. She often invited me to her home for a cooking lesson. Its been 4 years. I wonder if the invite still stands? If not, I'm adding the bitter melon supp. Also cinnamon is a great food for BG.
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Thanks ladies! I do have a genetic predisposition, but it still took my by surprise somehow. I had pre-op bloodwork done and my primary care doctor had me do the fasting glucose and the A1C...237 and 10.2 (booooo) respectively. I started metformin and just finished up 45 minutes on the treadmill and bid a fond farewell to any white flour items in my home. I'm the same weight and activity level that I was 3 years ago and then fasting was 104. Given my staging and my age at dx (39) there is no way I'm going to stop the Tamoxifen, nor do either the medonc or the pc MD want me to, we're just going to work hard to keep it in line. I haven't really had symptoms, thankfully, because we looked back at some pre-op bloodwork from November and it was 237 then too, but that wasn't fasting and no one said a word about it...I had just lost 21 lbs so maybe we all thought I had a bad lunch of cupcakes and soda. Just when I think I have a handle on life...boom...it kicks me in the head. SE are just lovely...I feel like I'm a giant chemistry experiment some days. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!!
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ouch, mimi - that's the "real" thing. I had a 6 on my A1C.
Chef - I can't deal with the cooked bitter melon, even if I par boil it b4 I use it in stir fry. I use the pills
I use SO many things supposedly good for lowering blood sugar, couldn't really tell you which one is most effective. Do no the Agave was the WORST - I still beat up on myself for believing that hype. Should have known better, but live & learn. I use local honey, and even around here where it's made, maple syrup is pricey. Know many people who tap, boil, and sell, and maybe ifyour don't know yet, it takes 40 gallons of sap to make a gallon of maple syrup, it helped me deepen my respect for the process. Not to mention putting up the taps in very VERY cold weather, and keeping a good eye to make sure bears haven't stopped by for a snack.
I tried all different kinds of stevia, could NOT stand the after taste. One "sweet treat" I give myself - froen fresh seedless grapes. Great esp. in this tropical weather, sweet, cold, resembles candy. Well, expect you both know we do what we have to do to "work around" the sugar cravings!
If you haven't yet read The End of Overeating by Dr. David Kessler, you'll be AMAZED to learn about the "trigger" sugar is ( fat & salt too)
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mimi,
Those #'s are a bit high. 10.2 and 237 and your drs. didn't say anything or at least warn you about it? I don't think my A1C was ever that high but was not tested? for that pre metformin and insulin. it hovers around 8 but my last test was 6.0 for the first time. Make sure you make adjustments with your diabetes meds while on the antihormonals. They should help you keep your BG in check. Good Luck
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SunflowersMA,
I no longer over eat but the sugar, fats, and salt......another story. I'll check out the book. Does it offer solutions for those cravings?
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Chef
YES - really - and it shows how the FOOD INDUSTRY tricks us - if you do eat at popluar chain restaurants - you might not after reading Kessler. He was the doctor who was head of the FDA when they took on "Big Tobacco"- and this is the opening salvo to take on the food industry. Mark Bittman writes some good stuff too about the JUNK that's in our food supply.
The KEY word I learned reading Kessler's book is : hyperpalatability. Fascinating!
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I used to spend a lot of time and money at fast food restaurants. Not anymore, but I must admit that I go to Wendy's on occasion for a spicy chix sandwich. I think of it as dessert. NO ff and the salads can look fresh for more than a week, and the pink slime got me off anything w ground beef. It's a scary world of gmo's, chemicals and artifical flavors. All that delicious foods flavor being manufactued in a lab. WHY? its all about the $$$$$$$$ and getting us addicted. Hyperpalatability?????
I was a chef until I became disabled 4 years ago, and I stopped cooking at home, relying on restaurants and some frozen foods. Sooo much added sugar. I try to be more selective about what foods I bring into my kitchen now. Even our wheat is now a frankenfood. ALL GMO.............WTF
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Yes i have it too and i heard it is because of the tamoxifen, i heard that before. i am doing an exersise programme and it is jumping back abit. my blood presure is also very high now. it kills the estrogen and gives you diabetes. can't win. i have actually heard breast cancer and diabetes is linked. actually mimmi, stories almost mimic each other, i have been on Tamoxifen for two years as well and all of a sudden it started to go wonky, blood sugar into the 11's at nine in the morning. bp 148/100 in the morning. dumb cancer and dumb diabetes and dumb pills.
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I'm betting the Arimidex is what caused mine to read high. I've kept a check on it since my gyno found it high during my routine yearly exam. My bp was high and so was the sugar! I blamed it on lymphedema, but found the bp was related to the Arimidex, so the high readings probably were, too. I quit the Arimidex on Thursday....way too many SEs, mainly bone and muscle pain & mood swings (which I've never had & hope to never experience that black dark place again!) The onco said he would try me on femara next month, until then I'm to go back on tamoxifen. I'm going to give myself a few days before I take tamoxifen again. I want to make sure all the Arimidex is GONE!
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High BP and high BG is a bad combo. They often go together with or without AI's. Diabetes puts you at risk for heart disease. My body has failed me in so many ways but my BP and heart are still good. I sometimes feel like I'm on a bakery line with a # and waiting for my # to be called. NEXT. Estrogene is very crucial for many things including heart health. Be aware and proactive to the effects that the AI or tamox has on YOU.
A bakery line...............of course thats me.
xox
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hi mimi...we met on the LD thread
sorry about the diagnosis, we cant seem to catch a break with this crap it seems
didnt know that about tam and diabetes...will be asking my onc at our next appt
just wanted to add that being on metformin MAY give you added protection from a reccurance. It is currently being studied in clinical trials ( i was in it, but dropped out...long story - i think i was on the placebo anyway). My MO is head of this trial at our cancer ctr and she was really pushing me to stay on it because she believes there are some protective benefits.
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I know we're talking about diabetes, BUT, if anyone is on a statin for cholesteral ( which AI's also effect badly) be careful - if you have a genetic tendency toward diabetes, ANY stain drug may increase your risk, or put you into diabetes.
I was taking a very high dose of Slo-Niacin, to try to get my cholesteral down - which it did, beautifully, but it also dramatically INCREASED my blood sugar levels. Has the same effect as the statins. There were several news reports about this a few months ago, as I remember, approx. 10% of people taken the statins were tossed into Type II diabetes.
Won't add my comments to this can't we catch a break theme. But, darn - AI's cause higher cholesteral and blod sugar, and meds ( even supplements, Naicin) to lower cholesteral cause higher blood sugar levels.
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SunflowersMA,
Don't we have a bit in common. My LDL is and always has been high. My PCP has rx'ed statins for years. I did take them for about a month but I quit. Way too many drugs for a person to be on. My former boss who was a ENT told me about the niacin for my virtigo. A while back I read about the slo release niacin for LDL here on BCO. Was it your post I read? I had no idea it spiked BG. I do take it but not daily. One week on, and 2 weeks off. The flashes and itchyness is no fun. I've also heard that genetic high levels of LDL are not always a road to heart disease, and may be benificial???????????
I try to stay away from animal fats and bad fats. Love evoo, avacado,cocnut oil and other veg oils for cooking.
It is what it is. Everything seems to be interrelated from BC tx's to our own body chemistry. We do the best we can.
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chef
I think I learned about the Slo Niacin on the AI Side Effects thread from ruthbru. AND SHE WAS RIGHT. It sure did lower my LDL and raised my HDL - a large amount. Also when my blood sugar went thru the roof. I stopped the Niacin, cholesteral went up, blood sugar went down to near normal ( for me) -
I use Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil ( giggle wondering how an olive gets to be a virgin?), raw almonds, Nordic Natural Omega 3 Oil, coconut oil ( sometimes), no dairy, none of the 5 whites in carbs, and gluten free. I went gluten free to deal with joint pain from Arimidex - and within a few weeks, went from needing aobut 10 ibeprofen a day to none. Still gluten free cuz I just feel better.
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This is exactly why I will not take any of the hormonal therapy drugs. Though I am already a T2 diabetic (dx'd last year) I have gotten everything under control, last A1c was 4.4%, I fear these drugs may raise my numbers again. I have been following a very low carb/high fat ketogenic diet. This has made all the difference in my control. I have also lost about 50 pounds in the last year.
I take 1000 mg of Metformin a day, have since dx, and really hoped it would prevent the bc, but alas, no. I also was hoping that since my body is running strictly on fat, I have been in deep ketosis for over a year, there wouldn't be enough glucose in circulation to feed a cancer, alas, no again. I will not allow the bc destroy the control I have over my diabetes. I watched my late husband go blind and have a leg amputated from not getting his diabetes under control, I won't go down that road!!
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Great advice ladies! My BP and other markers for cholesteral are thankfully fine right now. Since my diet is now fabulous...perhaps I can avoid that little sequel for some time to come
I wish that I could not take the Tamoxifen...but I can live with and control the diabetes...not so much with metastatic disease. I'm relatively young (44) and active...and becoming more active now. I know what you all mean about the what next thing...I feel like past sauce with no recipe from grandma...add a little of this, a pinch of that and it still doesn't taste like hers. @rozem...good to hear about the clinical trial...at least if I have to take this junk...it may as well hopefully have a "good" side effect!! -
Mimi ... I'm so sorry to hear of your type 2 diabetes dx. My glucose has always been low-normal, but spiked in just one year when blood was tested last month. Now it's at the high end of normal.
Did you have any rising fasting glucose levels prior to diagnosis ... or did you jump from normal to type 2 diabetes? When was your last glucose check before diagnosis?
Hugs to you ... -
Hi Dawnsm:
My bloodwork was normal a year ago, but began to devolve after that. I had two readings in the 230 range, but neither was fasting. Since it stayed high, when I did my pre-op last month, I had to go have the fasting and that's when I was dx'd. They postponed my exchange procedure today for a month to get it under control. I may have to temporarily take insulin for the surgery. I did start metformin and it has been dropping steadily each day, so insulin would be purely prophylactic. Every day is an adventure. My advice is watch what you eat and exercise regularly; anything less and it will likely keep going up. I've been walking about 40 minutes a day, nothing crazy and behaving when it comes to my one true love....pasta
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Hi,
I just posted about this subject yesterday. My FBG was normal May 2013. September 2013 FBG was 110. Tested A1C in December 6.4%. Tested A1C this past Tuesday 5.9%. The frustrating thing is that I started primal way of eating in 07/2012. Fell off the wagon a bit then became strict once again 01/01/2014. The only sugar I get is from 86% dark chocolate square everyday and corn chips about three times a week. I have had a hard time giving up the corn. I was also diagnosed with Celiac disease two weeks after the BC diagnosis. The Celiac disease is the reason why I decided to go Primal/Paleo. I am also still overweight.
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I just saw the NP at my Oncologists office and mentioned that my A1C will be rechecked next month because it was high in May at my yearly physical. She said she hadn't heard that Tamoxifen could have that affect on your A1C. I told her I had seen that it could online. I hope it isn't high next month. Just another thing to deal with. I'm on cholesterol medication now also. I'm glad I saw this post.
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I'm not sure if there is any research on this, but have met more than one survivor with the issue. I think someone should be researching it because these anti-estrogen meds affect your liver and your liver helps with the glucose cycle...so if your liver isn't functioning as well as it should....it will affect your glucose levels and in my eyes that means you could be at risk for diabetes. My oncologist and endocrinologist have worked on switching me to aromasin now that my ovaries are out and my liver function is back to normal and my A1C is still high, but it went down to 6.2 which is really great for a diabetic. This was also paired with eating better and exercise and oral medication, but it's all under control now. I hope that someone decides to take a look at it, because it's one more thing that we have keep an eye on as we age and survive on these meds that they want us on for longer and longer.
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For what it's worth, I was diabetic before Tamoxifen, and Tamoxifen hasn't raised my A1c.
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Not sure the Tamoxifen connection, but here is a little blurb from CDC on obesity in America. If you combine that with one in eight women will have breast cancer, you can see that the odds are stacking up for multiple issues.
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The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely beoverweight or obese by 2020. The latest figures from the CDC show that more than one-third (34.9% or 78.6 million) of U.S. adults are obese and 17% for children and adolescents aged 2–19 years.
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I agree that obesity is definitely part of the problem, my thing was that I wasn't before and am not now...I was running about 35 miles a week when diagnosed with cancer and though I don't run anymore, I'm still not obese, but developed it anyways. I know that my onc was wondering why my endocrinologist was so concerned with my liver numbers and then we all sat down and talked and when I changed the aromatase inhibitor to one that wasn't killing my liver, my A1C started to drop accordingly...it's just an interesting topic that I think could use a good look at...now that we live instead of die....I think it bears looking at how our treatments can affect our lives as we go grow older
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I haven't been diagnosed with diabetes, but all the symptoms are there for me, too. (I'm calling my oncologist tomorrow) but I wondered how you were coping? I've been on Tamoxifen for 2 years now, I was diagnosed at 49 and had a double mastectomy, with reconstruction. Also, I wondered when you end your Tamoxifen regimen (mine is 5 years), did your Dr. Say if the diabetes could go away, or will we be stuck with it?
I laughed when I read your comment- cancer - the gift that keeps on giving. I have exactly the same attitude. (We're screwed)
Wish me luck, and I hope you are doing well! You get an A+ from me for attitude- so Atta Girl!!
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The tamoxifen itself does not cause type 2 diabetes but the resulting weight gain from estrogen blocking certainly can. If you're overweight or obese your chances of developing type 2 diabetes are high. Add in stress and/or steroids (usually part of a chemo regimen) and it's a recipe for a diagnosis. Best way to prevent it is to lose the weight (I know it's not that easy) and keep stress levels low (also not easy). Any glucose fluctuations from steroids will resolve once the treatment has stopped. The liver's involvement (with glucose regulation) is to take up vital nutrients including some glucose from the blood stream when insulin is released by the pancreas (insulin allows the uptake to happen), store them and release them at a low rate throughout the day and night to keep you conscious and functioning between meals and during prolonged periods of fasting.Tamoxifen does not interfere with this process. It is metabolized by the liver via a different process and a specific pathway that is not heavily involved in the glucose process.
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I have been on tamoxifen now for 2.5 years and this month I have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Not one person in my family father or mother's side has ever been diagnosed with it. I thought after two years I would spend less time at the doctors however because of the tamoxifen I not only have diabetes but cervical issues as well. I'm in great shape, not in anyway obese. I exercise regularly and watch what I eat
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