adriamycin...what are your experiences?

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I was just told at my first visit to the oncologist that I can choose to receive adriamycin along with two other chemo drugs (TAC)...as a clinical trial to give me a possible better outcome for recurrence...but with possible side effects of heart damage and leukemia...or without it(TC)...and leave a bigger chance of the cancer returning...does anyone have any experience with adriamycin who could share their thoughts on this...I said yes to the trial, but while I'm waiting for my BRCA test to come back, I'm trying to get as much info as I can, to make sure this is how I want to proceed.

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  • SelenaWolf
    SelenaWolf Member Posts: 1,724
    edited July 2013

    Before giving you Adriamycin, you should be given a full heart work-up to insure that you are heart healthy.  Heart damage is not a given with Adriamycin (it's a very low risk of 1.7%), but can occur with certain, pre-existing medical conditions.  If it is acute, it occurs within days; but it can be chronic, occurring years after chemotherapy.

    If you had cancer treatment as a child or adolescent, it will increase your risk for Adriamycin-related cardiomyopathy.  If you are older than fifty, your risk, also, increases.  A pre-existing heart condition or heart disease, and a history of hypertension, also, raise the risk. Research, also, linked dosage to Adriamycin-related heart problems; you can, only, recent so much Adriamycin during your lifetime.  It's a cumulative thing; if you go over the "safe" level, your risk of developing Adriamycin-related cardiomyopathy dramatically increases.  And once you develop Adriamycin-related cardiomyopathy, there is a poor outcome.

    These are serious concerns that you need to think about very carefully.  Yes, there are potential risks, but they are rare and there are safeguards in place to avoid increasing your personal risk, if Adriamycin is being recommended.  Make sure you talk to you oncologist - and get a second opinion, if need be - before making your decision.

    Personally, I've had had no problems following combination therapy with Adriamycin.  My diagnosis was similar to yours: Stage 2, Grave 2, one positive node.  I had a mUgga (a heart function test) before starting chemotherapy and my heart was perfectly sound: no evidence of heart valve problems or heart disease which lowered my risk.  I have, since, had another heart work-up as part of my annual, regular physical exam with my PCP and, so far, so good.  No heart damage is evident.  I'm, also, very athletic and have noticed no difference in my physical abilities since treatment.

    But you need to make a decision that YOU are comfortable with.  So... ask tons of questions and make sure that you understand the benefits vs. risks as it pertains to your specific situation.

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited July 2013

    Ditto SelenaWolf detailed response.  MUGA scan should be given prior to chemo to evaluate heart.  I passed the MUGA scan although I have a heart murmur.  When I was dx 2006, I was not given a medication choice and received DD A/C x4 and DD Taxol x4.  I had major GI heartburn issues with Adriamycin and had to be treated with Protonix. (Also similar dx as you stage 2 IDC, ER+, PR+, Her2-, 1/18 node)

  • jenrio
    jenrio Member Posts: 558
    edited July 2013

    How old are you?  That could impact your heart damage probability a lot. You look youngish?

    You are a probably borderline case for TAC.   chemo Taxol alone is relatively effective with less side effect and less heart damage.  AC could be saved for future if you have to have it, AC is also less effective for grade 1,2 people.    

    Have you already had surgery?  If not, you should go in for neoadjuvant trial of some kind (ie, some drug to go in you before surgery, a few weeks later, doctor remove the tumor and see what the drug did).   Better chance for you to save your breast.   Fast way for the doc to see whether a particular drug is effective for you specifically.

    http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results/map/click?map.x=159&map.y=165&term=neoadjuvant+breast+cancer&recr=Open&no_unk=Y

    PM me with your location if you like.   Good luck!

  • Shannah75
    Shannah75 Member Posts: 19
    edited July 2013

    Thank you,ladies, for your input! This is such a difficult decision to make, so every bit of information helps. I am only 37, mom of 3 (1 with autism), and a new grandson. I want to be here for them, and while I want to have the best chance of the cancer not recurring, I also don't want to exchange one life threatening illness for another. I don't have a lot of time to decide, so any other thoughts or experiences would be so greatly appreciated!

  • jenrio
    jenrio Member Posts: 558
    edited July 2013

    I'm assuming you did a PET or bone scan or something that eliminated the possibility of mets?    

    You have a big tumor and node positive.   Are you sure you are stage II not stage III?  

    Given your age, I'd think AC would not harm your heart.   But given your tumor's low grade, AC may not work at all.   So if you use AC now, you just emptied your bullet case and hit yourself badly and possibly increased your tumor's drug resistance.   Taxol is the same story, but somewhat gentler than AC.

    If you haven't done surgery yet and really want to join a clinical trial, neoadjuvant clinical trial is the best way to go.   So 1 or 2 doses of some drug to see whether there's any dramatic effect and possibly reduce your tumor size to do a surgery with better margin and better chances down the road.   

    If you already had surgery, then it's your call for ACT or Taxol only or hormone therapy.   There will be much more effective therapy for hormone positive stage IVers approved later this year (palbociclib that beats all other therapies, chemo or not), so in case you are actually already metastatic, you could afford to use hormone therapy and wait for palbociclib.   Save ACT for the days when you really need it.   Just my 2 cents.

    Best of luck!

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited July 2013

    I did four rounds of AC without any long term problems. I did a MUGA before going in & my heart was fine then and afterwards too. My onc. said that if heart problems occur (which is rare), it generally happens to people who are using it on a longer treatment course or already have a lower heart functioning going in to it. When I did chemo, I looked at it was this way.....yes, there are bad POSSIBLE SEs for any treatment, which are definitely scary to consider. But what I knew FOR SURE, was that I had cancer, and if I didn't get that taken care of, I wouldn't have to worry about treatment SEs, because I would be dead. That kind of cleared my head about what I needed to do.

  • encyclias
    encyclias Member Posts: 302
    edited July 2013

    I had AC x 4, three weeks apart.  I was given a MUGA scan (69%) before treatment; I'm 64 years old.  The only side effects I had were fatigue and a bit of indigestion towards the end of the course of treatment.  The indigestion issue is because the fast-growing cells that line your stomach are also being clobbered, like fast-growing cancers (and hair).  The indigestion was cured overnight by an over-the-counter heartburn med with omeprazole.  A/C chemo doesn't seem to come with bone/joint/muscle pain, nor have I heard of anyone having finger/toe nail problems, although my fingernails do have exactly 4 little white lines across them, not raised or brittle, which are slowly growing out now and being filed off.  Nausea can be bad if they can't line you up with a medication that will work (the problem is sometimes insurance companies do not want to pay for the higher-priced anti-nauseas).  However, all of these chemo drugs carry nausea and fatigue as side effects.

    When I had finished, my MO wanted to start me on Taxotere.  I refused.  One reason is that the A/C had just about destroyed the cancer except for a wee 3mm bit left over from what had been the larger lump.  Everything else was clear of cancer -- margins, nodes, etc--  so there was no extreme reason to take another  chemo drug which could conflict with and most probably worsen my Type2 diabetes.  I certainly didn't need neuropathy, I certainly didn't need any form of damage to my feet which could lead to amputations, and for myself, I just didn't need the pain, or the possible permanent hair loss.  My GP and Internist agreed.  However, if the A/C had not done as well as it did, I would have had to take the risk with one of the taxanes (Taxotere, Taxol, etc).

    Shannah, I know it is a very difficult decision to make.  Whatever way you choose, I hope you do wonderfully well and stomp this cancer monster.

    EDIT:  I forgot to mention I did have to have 2 Neulastra shots to bring up my white blood cell count when it dipped just a hair below the normal range; my onc didn't believe in taking any chances with this old woman.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2013

    I had no heart damage and and EKG/MUGA scan beforehand. I had AC x 4 DD.  Lost my hair, lost 10 lbs, had problems with hyperactive nose (I could smell everything) and was nauseaus or didn't have an appetitie. but I came through just fine.  I was an athlete going into chemo and was an athlete coming out.

    Claire in AZ

  • crazyride43
    crazyride43 Member Posts: 154
    edited July 2013

    Shannah, I was 43 when diagnosed and had AC/T, and more than a year out have no issues.  I did neoadjuvant chemo, and even though it was lower grade and highly ER+ and PR+, my tumor did shrink down to the point where it couldn't be seen at all on my pre-surgery MRI.  This allowed for a much less invasive lumpectomy, and also helped me feel good about the chemo being effective.  If it killed the cancer in my breast, then surely it also killed any rogue cells that were floating around!  Like ruthbru, I was much more worried about not being around at all then the very small chance of long term effects from chemo.  One day at a time!

  • Shannah75
    Shannah75 Member Posts: 19
    edited July 2013

    Thanks crazyride43...it's difficult some days to remember that...but I agree 100%...one day at a time... Otherwise you'll go insane! I'm just looking forward to getting my treatments started, so I can feel like this cancer is getting out of my body!

  • Shannah75
    Shannah75 Member Posts: 19
    edited July 2013

    Hi jenrio,



    I was diagnosed with stage 2 because of my tumor size, but my positive node is actually "clinically" negative, because it was a micro met. The onc said they just don't know whether I would benefit or not, but that my tumor is somewhat aggressive, so if I were his daughter, he would recommend going on the adriamycin (also due to my age). Now, they also want to have the breast reexcised again to get a better margin...but the surgeon won't do it until my breast heals (it keeps filling up with fluid, now a month after surgery)...so I haven't even started chemo... And if my brca test comes back positive, that means more surgery...I'm trying to stay positive, but this is really taking a toll.

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