DIM and PR+ breast cancer?

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  • HappyTrisha
    HappyTrisha Member Posts: 614
    edited January 2013

    Cleomoon, as long as you are not ER+, I think you'll find this to be a wonder pill!!!  I am giving you a link to the kind I bought.  I bought mine on eBay and these are half the price that I paid, and I thought I got a great deal!  In any event,this is the brand.

    Good luck.  I think you're going to be thrilled with the result.

    Smile

    Trisha

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Ketone-Lean-Advanced-Weight-Loss-Supplement-1200mg-60-Capsules-/150980255348?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23271fde74

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  • mclark55
    mclark55 Member Posts: 168
    edited February 2013

    Hi Happy Trisha - just thought I'd wander over here and see how you're doing.  I confess to never having heard of Moringa or Caralluma Fimbriata, so I've done a little research on them.  Interesting... how are you feeling on them?  I noticed Moringa was helpful for immune system support and increased energy.  I use goji juice for the same thing.  Are you noticing anything different with the caralluma fimbriata?

    Just wondering!  Hope you're well!

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  • HappyTrisha
    HappyTrisha Member Posts: 614
    edited February 2013

    Hi mclark!  Well I'll tell you.  There is no question that my appetite has been surpressed and the thing that excites me the most is that my sweet cravings seem to be at an all-time low!  I don't know if it is totally the caralluma or a combination of that and the moringa, but it's working!  I have definitely noticed a change in my energy level since starting the moringa.  In fact, I think I may have taken it too late in the evening one day because when I was ready to call it a night, my eyes wouldn't shut, ha ha.  I think that I have just generally been feeling better overall.   I know I haven't made any other major changes, so I'm attributing it to the moringa.  Whatever it is, I hope it keeps on keeping on!

    My best friend is the one who tells me about these supplements.  She watches Dr. Oz faithfully and when something new comes around, she'll call me up and give me the low down.  So she's the one who actually turned me on to the moringa and the caralluma. 

    This is what Memorial Sloan-Kettering says about moringa.  I think it's pretty impressive and definitely worth a look-see!

    http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/moringa-oleifera

    Hope you are doing well, as well!

    Smile

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  • mclark55
    mclark55 Member Posts: 168
    edited February 2013

    Trisha - thanks for that. Ii will check it out.

    xox

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  • mclark55
    mclark55 Member Posts: 168
    edited February 2013

    Hi there.  For everyone who has been on this thread and wanted this information, this is the article written by my naturopath (he's the President of the Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians) discussing indole-3-carbinol (found in cruciferous vegetables) and estrogen metabolite ratios.  It's not easy to read - you'll need a stiff drink to go with it and some time with your feet up to truly understand everything being said but the upshot of it is that (in his words to me on December 12, 2012) "There is certainly little reason to think that DIM was a substitute for tamoxifen, even when the 2/16 theory was still accepted.  There was nothing about the proposed mechanism of action that was similar.  One could argue that at least flax seed or soy genestein was kind of similar in action.  Sorry to be the party pooper."

    Here's the article, which appeared in the Townsend Letter (an alternative medicine newsletter):  http://www.townsendletter.com/Jan2013/estrogen0113.html

    Hope this info helps someone.

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  • jojo68
    jojo68 Member Posts: 881
    edited February 2013

    Hi there!

    I am wondering...I take Bio Response DIM which is being studied by the National Cancer Institute and has been found to be very effective.  I didn't read the article you posted from your naturopath who poo pooed DIM, but was wondering if it was the same kind as there are so many that are considered non-effective?  What does he suggest using instead of DIM for controlling estrogen etc?  Any thoughts on Bio Identical hormones?

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  • HappyTrisha
    HappyTrisha Member Posts: 614
    edited March 2013

    This is really a pretty funny story, IMO.  Since I mentioned weight loss and supplements here, I thought I would update you.  I am Catholic and we are in the middle of lent.  I gave up sweets for lent.  I mention this for a reason.  As I have mentioned previously, sweets have been my downfall.  Well I decided to start taking moringa, caralluma fimbriata, and l-carnitine.  I added the l-carnitine after researching it; it helps turn fat into energy.  I have definitely started to lose weight and I no longer have sweet cravings.  Years back I had asked my pastor about "breaking lent" on a Sunday and he told me that it was fine to do because Sunday is a feast day and we should use it as a day of celebration and not of sorrow - something like that.  Anyway, I would give up sweets for lent and on a Saturday I would stockpile whatever sweets I wanted and actually sit up until 12:00 midnight and at 12:01 I would start to eat whatever sweets I had!  Pathetic, right?  But I really did that!!!  (Addicted to sweets much?) 

    Cut to now.  The first Sunday of lent I actually forced myself to go to a bakery and get something sweet! I didn't even want it, but I did it anyway because it's the day I'm allowed to break lent!  So I sat there eating pastry that I didn't want, and I didn't even enjoy it.  But I ate it all anyway, just because I thought I should, ha ha.  What I can tell you is that I haven't broken lent since.  In terms of being able to walk past chocolate and not have it call out to me, I don't even recognize who I am anymore!

    I'm not sure exactly which of the supplements are responsible for this miracle, or whether it's the combination, by wonder of wonders, it's working.

    Innocent

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  • jessica749
    jessica749 Member Posts: 429
    edited March 2013

    Okay, feeling dumb. What is DIM?

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  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 532
    edited March 2013

    I'm definitely planning to start tamoxifen once rads are over for me (3/25 is last tx). However I am very interested in supplementing alongside with something like DIM. Is tamoxifen contraindicated by DIM? Also I was under the impression (though I think I'm wrong) that DIM and I3D are the same?

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  • jojo68
    jojo68 Member Posts: 881
    edited March 2013

    I do believe that you can take DIm with TamoxifenKiss

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2013

    If I can remember, I'll post here next week after my meeting with my naturopathic oncologist to see what he says about DIM and tamox.  I've heard conflicting reports. 

    Claire

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  • AEM47
    AEM47 Member Posts: 297
    edited March 2013

    I take both - tamoxifen at night and DIM at night - they do different things.

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  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 532
    edited March 2013

    Claire, I'll remind you to tell us what you learn from your doc! ;-)



    AEM47, do you find the DIM helps lessen tamoxifen's SEs (if you're having any)?



    I followed up on my own question in my previous post about DIM and I3C -- I did some online research. They're not the same but DIM (if I understand correctly) is a subset of I3C. It's hard to get an objective opinion about the advantages of one over the other. The pro-DIM sites seem to be selling DIM. Just wondering if I should take one vs the other -- taking both seems excessive.

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  • AEM47
    AEM47 Member Posts: 297
    edited March 2013

    Gemini - I can honestly say I think the DIM makes the stiffness more pronounced. I've done my own on and off with it...and I'm definitely stiffer while taking it. BUT it seems to keep the weight and bloating down.

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  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 532
    edited March 2013

    AEM, thanks for the reply. I do worry about weight gain and bloat, so it's good to hear something can counter tamoxifen's effect, but that's too bad about the stiffness. One more question for you -- did you incorporate the DIM with tam right away?



    I know women experience a broad range of SEs on tam, from none to severe. I know I won't find out till I start taking it myself. I do really like what I'm reading about DIM but am not considering using it on its own at this point.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2013

    U of A (Tucson) has an ongoing DIM trial for women who are taking tamoxifen.  It's a double-blind study. I nearly signed up for it, but it involves having to travel to Tucson for check ups, and it's about 5 hours 1 way from my home in another part of the state.  I may sign up later for it.

    Claire

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  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 532
    edited March 2013

    Yes I've read about this study. The fact that it involves taking the two together suggests to me that it's probably ok to do so. (Versus taking something like bio identical hormones along with tamoxifen.)

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  • AEM47
    AEM47 Member Posts: 297
    edited March 2013

    Gemini - yes I started both at the same time. I figured one blocks estrogen..the other metabolizes the estrogen. Sounds to me that they would compliment each other. But that's just my thoughts on it after researching. There were some findings that uterine thickening was less and even reversed in women taking DIM but I don't have that link handy.

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  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 532
    edited March 2013

    Thanks, Andrea

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  • mclark55
    mclark55 Member Posts: 168
    edited March 2013

    Jessica749 - I see no one answered your question - DIM stands for di-indolyl-methane.  It's a chemical compound which comes from the breakdown of indole-3-carbinol (or I3C), found in cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, Brussels sprouts, kale, cabbage, etc. 

    Claireinaz - If you happen to get involved in this study, I'd be most interested to discover what their findings are. 

    Gemini4 - I don't think you would need to take both DIM and I3C.

    So much conflicting info about DIM, you hardly know who to believe.  I was on it for some time, believing what I was reading about it acting like a natural form of Tamoxifen, but my naturopath disabused me of that notion and I haven't had the funds to return to him to find out what I could take instead.  My BC was PR+, ER- so nobody seems to know what to do with me.  I chose against taking Tamoxifen - it just didn't make sense to me, especially with all of the SE's.

    I really have a hard time believing that suppressing our natural hormones (what little we have left after chemotherapy) is going to keep recurrences at bay.  I believe there are many more things we can do - like keeping xenoestrogens out of our lives - to keep ourselves healthy.  I teach everything I've learned on my website, if you want to pay me a visit, I'd be happy to have you swing on by and take a look.  Web address is in my signature.  xox

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  • Mini1
    Mini1 Member Posts: 1,836
    edited June 2013

    There are a number of test out there (not done by DIM proponants) that show DIM to be more effecctive than I3C.

    I would love to have the weight gain SE of DIM, but alas, so far I've experienced no SE's at all.

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  • AmyfromMI
    AmyfromMI Member Posts: 241
    edited June 2013

    Hmmmm.  And I thought people lost weight with DIM.  Still haven't decided if I'm going to take it or not.  I am taking tamoxifen and tolerating it well.  No SEs.  Knock wood.  Just wondering if DIM would be a good complement to the tamoxifen.  

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  • jojo68
    jojo68 Member Posts: 881
    edited June 2013

    I am about to start an herbal Tamoxifen from Dr. Wong...will report back!

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  • Vanessa78
    Vanessa78 Member Posts: 3
    edited June 2013

    Does anyone know if you can take DIM if you are taking tamoxifen?

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  • HLB
    HLB Member Posts: 1,760
    edited June 2013

    I don't know for sure but I am taking it with letrozole.

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  • Golden01
    Golden01 Member Posts: 916
    edited June 2013

    I'm in a clincial study with the University of Arizona to test the effectiveness of DIM with Tamoxifen. I don't know if I have the active substance or a placebo but hopefully, down the road, the answer will be clearer for all of us. Here's a link to info on the study, they are now enrolling both in Tucson and Phoenix: azcc.arizona.edu/node/4472

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  • Vanessa78
    Vanessa78 Member Posts: 3
    edited June 2013

    Thank you so much! 

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  • Chris13
    Chris13 Member Posts: 254
    edited June 2013

    When do you take the d-ripose for RLS? I don't know if it is better to take in the morning, since it claims to be good for muscles/workouts.

    Thanks!

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  • mclark55
    mclark55 Member Posts: 168
    edited November 2013


    Hi there - I haven't been on this thread for awhile but I had some updates about DIM so I thought I'd better cruise over here and share them with you all.


    Golden01 - I would love to have the final results of the study when it becomes available.


    Vanessa78 - I read somewhere (if only I could find exactly where!) that DIM enhances the effects of Tamoxifen.


    I've got a couple more updated articles on my website about the subject of DIM and its uses for breast cancer:


    http://marnieclark.com/more-information-on-dim-estrogen-metabolite-ratios/


    http://marnieclark.com/clarification-on-dim-and-its-uses-for-breast-cancer/



    There are some excellent research studies on DIM referenced at the bottom of the second article. Also, the website Life Over Cancer wrote about DIM yesterday too - here's the link to that one:


    http://lifeovercancerblog.typepad.com/life-over-cancer-blog/2013/10/dim-and-breast-cancer.html


    Hope this helps someone!

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