Long-term success of altern treatments for estro-dependant BC?

I am interested in the oestrogen metabolism test can you say more and if its available in europe?

I refused tamofin as well. I was dx'd in 2004 with stage 2 grade 2, 2 nodes positive. Er+, pr+, her2-. I took maitake d-fraction and bio identical progesterone for awhile, 3 years maybe? They were both expensive so I quit and thought I was probably in the clear. I was dx'd with bone mets 8 years after the original dx. Its hard to know if those things had any effect. Did it come bacl because I didn't take tamoxifen? Did it stay away as long as it did because I took the D-fraction? I don't know. One reason I didn't take tamox was because the chemo instantly stopped my period permanently and the guy who prescribed the bio identicles had me do a blood test every 3 months, which always came back very low for estradiol. Lower an a menopausal woman. Do I figured that helped. I don't know if tamoxifen really prevents recurrence or if it just delays it.

What is DIM please and where can we get it?

I take DIM. I get mine from Swanson.

It is supposed act like Tamox w/o out the SE's. DIM in another form is prescribed in Europe as a cancer treatment. We have to get it in another form here thanks to the FDA. I copied some info and pasted it below. There are quite a few sites out there with info on DIM. Good luck on your research.

Anti-Cancer Effects

Animal and laboratory research has found that DIM kills cancer cells and stops the cells from spreading, according to the MSKCC. DIM shows effectiveness against pancreatic and colon cancer, and it enhances the effects of erlotinib, a chemotherapy drug used to treat certain forms of lung cancer. DIM also may be effective against breast and prostate cancer, as noted by the MSKCC.

Theories/Speculation

Research shows beneficial effects of DIM on estrogen metabolism, according to the MSKCC. This could have beneficial effects for several health conditions, such as treating endometriosis, premenstrual syndrome and chronic breast pain in women, and preventing benign prostatic hyperplasia, or an enlarged prostate, in men. Dim might also reduce side effects and risks of estrogen hormone replacement therapy.

Usage

DIM is available as a supplement from numerous companies, and it is a primary ingredient in a proprietary formula for immune support developed at UC Berkeley. EMedTV notes that the lack of research makes it impossible to recommend a safe and effective dosage of diindolylmethane for any purpose, and it recommends following instructions on the product labeling.

Hi ladies,

Browsing through active topics...thought I'd put in my two cents worth...I'm so pleased with what I found for nutritional approach to lowering estrogen through simple inexpensive high water soluble fiber diet (36 gm/day in six intervals).  My nutritionist (karenhurd.com) is getting her PhD...truly understands organic chemistry and has phenomenal results using nutrition for a wide variety of illnesses that traditional approaches were not able to manage.

I too had been reabsorbing the estrogen and making more. I was 57 and still having heavy periods.  The water soluble fiber bonds with things like hormones / cholesterol /even pesticides and other ugly things and they cannot reaborb through the ileum, so are flushed out of the system.

Had Dx 11/07 IDC Grade 1; Stage 2; 1 positive node; ER+/PR+ HER2-.  Was suggested I do chemo and Tamoxifen.  I already have quite severe vision loss...did not want to risk more as SE Tamox. My oncologist was willing to work with me in monitroing the dietary approach (did not do chemo or Tamoxifen).  Mayo clinic enhanced estradiol testing showed my levels going down dramatically and within a few months I went into menopause (no more periods; plus enhanced estradiol level confirmed it) WITHOUT ANY HOT FLASSHES or other symptoms...still haven't had any!!  Don't mind that!

It's a very simple healthy diet (once you get over the shock that you need to give up sugar; sugar substitutes and caffeine!).  She has worked with people all over the world by phone consult...is very reasonable cost wise.

Feel free to PM me with any questions...I might not follow this thread much...hope this is helpful though!  SO thankful to be past the 5 year mark now.  I know there aren't any guarantees, but I feel confident that I found a safe effective way to lower estrogen and I don't worry about recurrence.

Wishing you all the best!!!

On this diet...is red meat allowed for protein?

I forget the name as well...Do you have someone monitoring your hormone levels?  I looked up some hormone approved Docs on www.breastcancerchoices.org and found one near me who is an expert in all of this...I am excited to get started.

Wheat grass is good to include in your diet. Throw it in your smoothie. You can grow it easily. You can get it in powder form, but as with most things, natural is better.

I asked my doctor about my being 95-100% ER+ and only 10-15% and he basically told me you are what you are and you can't change that, but it seems to be that dominance by either would have to affect you. But what do I know. I'm just the patient.

I'm another one who turned down tamoxifen - well, correctly stated I took it for three months and then said - no more. I actually never had hot flashes on it. I think I just had too much estrogen for it to process! I take 200 mg of DIM twice a day and follow the iodine protocol from www.breastcancerchoices.org. I have Hashimoto's as well (autoimmune thyroid) and with this protocol I feel better than I think I ever have. My labs last week showed that I still crank out estrogen like a 20-yo (I'm 50, diagnosed at 48). I had the estrogen metabolism test a year or so ago and it showed that I don't process the bad estrogen well. I had a partial hysterectomy due to fibroids about eight months prior to the BC diagnosis, so periods are not a factor for me. My BC was 88% ER+ and 81% PR+, so with all of this estrogen floating around in me, am I at higher risk of recurrence/metastasis? Possibly, but who really knows. Oncotype was only 8, so no chemo for me. 

I was seeing a hormone doctor for about two years before diagnosis. I was STRONGLY estrogen dominant and had very little progesterone, so I was on progesterone cream to try to balance the hormones. Did it contribute? Again, who knows. Obviously I stopped the cream, but actually my current supplement regimen has me feeling so much better than I did. Thyroid is under control, antibodies have dropped like a rocket, weight loss, reduced body fat, can think and complete an entire sentence without struggling, exercise regularly, and teach an aerobics class! I still see the hormone doctor, and he works closely with me on alternatives to regulate me without taking actual hormones. 

What would I do if I had a recurrence/metastasis? Honestly, I do not know. I'm only 1-1/2 years out from diagnosis, so still a relative newbie. That said, I feel like I am doing what is right for ME and my overall health right now. 

The other day my oncologist asked me, "I bet you feel good off tamoxifen??" Uh...yes. Just thought it was funny coming from her. She is big into alternatives and supplements (she has lupus, so we have interesting chats). She is mainstream for her patients who would not conceive of thinking outside the box, but willing to let me find my own path. She just said we have to watch me a little more closely until I get closer to menopause - which at this rate may not happen for a while!  

HLB...Keep us posted about the other story!

I am looking to try and get into this clinic outside of Philly...http://www.drmagaziner.com/about-us/dr-allan-magaziner/

They are recommended in one of S. Somer's books for hormone therapy etc...I need someone to monitor me!

I am still looking into seeing Dr. Wong, herbalist in NYC...

Funny thing about estrogen...we really DON"T want to get rid of it all as it protects our bones/heart...but, gosh if a little bit can trigger mets,,...scary!  What to do?  I think it all must just be a balancing act!

Peacock...Interesting about the progesterone cream...I thought some people had luck with using that...

I also take DIM and am on the iodine protocol...thing with the iodine...causes me heavy bromide detox on my face...acne, yikes.  I have to start out little and work up, which I hate because with breast cancer we need a much higher dose.

Well I just talked to the guy I mentioned. He got colorectal ca 6 years ago, had 23 rads and took a chemo pill, and basically did all the stuff that the lady I met does, plus enemas that her husband made up for him out of I don't know what. He gets a scope every year and every time they say its ok. I tried to get out of him if the tumor is gone or if not how big is it but he just says they tell him its ok. He was going to have surgery but it shrunk enough that he hasn't had to have surgery. He switched back and forth from the essiac to the 11 herb tea and takes it 3 times a day, plus 3 graviola pills a day and a bunch of vitamins and minerals. He uses the rife machine every other day. He kept saying "you have to stick with it though, you can't give up on it and its expensive." So there you go for what its worth! Wish I could have gotten more details about the cancer but I guess a lot of old people don't ask questions if they're told everythings ok.

Peacock, interesting. I am convinced that my estrogen metabolism and production were messed up for a good part of my adult life. Now that my ovaries are gone, I feel 10X better.