Tell me the honest truth - can muscle grow back?
When my surgeon removed my tumor he had to take part of the chest muscle as well, in order to get clean margins. I understand it had to be done, but I am very unhappy with the way the end result looks. I have this big divot right in my chest. At the time, he pretty much brushed off my questions, had an attitude like "oh don't worry, you'll get back to normal soon, the muscle will grow back" but now it's been nearly 3 months and there's no change. I know fat cells regenerate quickly, and nerve cells don't, but what about muscles? Does anyone know if a part of a muscle that is removed can ever grow back? Or will I look like this forever? I'm also very unsure about what kind of exercising I'm allowed to do. Have worked back up to doing push-ups but that's supposedly a no-no for fear of lymphedema. This whole cancer thing just sucks. I was strong and fit before. I hate feeling weak. :-(
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I think it has to build up just like anyone trying to increase muscle mass. Im wondering too about exercise through treatment. I really want to try to keep working out but worried I wont be able to. I was joking saying if I had to go on any steroid type med, i was hitting the weights and try to build back up the pec muscle that Ive lost.
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The main Breastcancer.org site has a section on Exercise that may help with some of your questions and concerns until more members post with their own experiences.
• The Mods
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Hi guys,
Jennie, sorry to hear about your ordeal. Rdrunner, i actually am trying to do the same thing you are doing. I had my bmx a month ago and chose no reconstruction, for a number of reasons. I have been doing ashtanga yoga for some years before my surgery, which developed the upper part of my chest muscle. For months before the surgery, i was doing pushups like crazy in an effort to build more chest muscle in the front to create an illusion of what once was a B cup breast. However, i do look flat after the surgery and have been browsing bodybuilding sites as well as youtube for building mass in the chest muscles and also for supplements and diet. I also am a vegetarian, which limits choice of proteins. I am easing into the ashtanga again but it is not going to build more muscle. So i think about adding weightlifting. The bodybuilders on youtube have a lot of videos on chest mass. I am still afraid though to go with heavy weights. Some guys on youtube promise a bigger chest in 6 wks. Have you guys tried any bodybuilding methods? -
Jennie, Like you I have had muscle removed as my chest wall was involved with BC. I have a hole or divet next to my clevage by my implant. I could get a fat graft to fill it but that costs too much so I unfortunately live with it. Yes, I am unhappy too as I can't wear anything lower than a high scoop or high v neck. Crewneck is my best bet. I't been about 7 years and I just tolerate it.
I have Lymphedema and push ups will definately put you at risk. Yes there are some exercises you should be doing and are helpful for "at risk arms" Please join or read our Lymphedema thread here to gain more knowledge and ask any questions. We are a super friendly bunch that are Lymphedema smart. You don't want Lymphedema because that beast is much harder than BC treatment. And It never goes away if you have stage 2 such as me.
Early stage is reversible if caught on time.
Not trying to scare you, just want you informed.
I am not sure about your doc saying "muscle will grow back" Maybe you can strengthen and build your existing muscle but growing, hum (like bionic or something)never heard of that. I have seen my friends motorcycle accident legs. He has muscle missing due to injury and there is no way that will ever fill up again. Its been years.
Please educate me if I am incorrect as I am no expert in this field but I am always willing to learn.
Regarding nerve regrowth, I had a student doctor working on me and said, "Don't worry, new evidence says your nerves will start to grow back" and I said "Honey, before my nerves grow back I will be dead, period." He was speechless. It has been years since that comment and yes I have a bit of feeling back in places but it's not your normal feeling, It's more like after a few minutes of hitting your funny bone, feeling when I touch it. Not nice at all. Eeeks these docs will drive you crazy!
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Jennie,
I too have a bit of my pec on one side gone, but I think it's more subtle than you describle. I see it, wish it weren't there.
I am very, very active. I have lymphedema and having it has actually completely changed my fears about exercise. I wear a custom fitted sleeve all the time and a nightgarment, and I have never not-done something for fear of the lymphedema SINCE actually having it. Before I had it, I was very ginger about things. But having it makes it much easier to see the results of decisions I make on my arm. Activity doesn't seem to make it worse, even intense stuff.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do anything, only that there is very little fast and hard known about lymphedema. There's been a major change in what women are told about exercise in maybe the last ?5 years - used to be don't exercise at all, now the focus is on building up gradually to what you want to do. You'll find a lot of info on the Lymphedema board here - they're GREAT - and also on a website: http://www.stepup-speakout.org. Finally, if you haven't already seen one, get a referral to a good Certified Lymphedema Therapist. You can read about what that means on Stepup-speakout.
Edited to add: you can't add back parts of muscle that are missing. They'll always be gone. You can convince your muscles in general to enlarge, but it will be sort of following a pre-set shape. So you can't fix deformities in muscle, atlhough you might be able to make them minimally noticeable.
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Joanna, I lifted weights before my surgery. Off limits now, boo hiss. Anyway, any female weight lifter can tell you, no matter how much or how heavy, we will never get big muscles like a man will. We don't have the right hormones for it. But we can firm them up and make them strong, and lose the fat covering them, and look pretty darn good. :-)
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Jennie,
Thanks. I dont have high expectations. Just a bit of a protrusion would be nice. I am working on it. My surgeon did not put any restrictions on weight lifting. Activity as tolerated, whatever that means. My interpretation is i can lift if no side effects. Only thing is rib pain. I had a cracked rib in the past, and that's what it feels like. As to parts of muscle removed, i dont know if you can get it to grow back, but someone in my office had surgery on her forearm after she had a terrible fall, and they had to take part of her muscle to reconstruct the tendons. She is over a year post op. initially, her forearm was much thinner and you could tell the part where the muscle was removed. Now, it is still a bit thinner than her other forearm, but the appearance is much more uniform. She has done a lot of physical therapy and works out too, but no heavy weights. She has made nice progress and so can we. -
Joanna - If you had any nodes removed, then you are at risk for lymphedema (LE), despite what your surgeon said. Surgeons unfortunately are not generally knowledgeable about LE and will often give patients little to no education about LE and risk prevention measures - instead the patient is often given an "all clear" for physical activity with no guidance.
My surgeon also did not put any restrictions on weight lifting once I healed, so I incorporated it into my exercise program. I was eager to build back lost muscle, so I increased weights and reps rapidly. Now I have arm and truncal LE and will have it the rest of my life. Thankfully, once I was under the care of a certified lymphedema therapist, she designed a safe weight lifting program for me. I started with light weights and limited reps, and have increased them only very slowly over the years. So you can lift weights, but you need to start out small and increase slowly and carefully, being alert to any signs of LE - a heavy feeling in the arm, tingling feeling in the arm, swelling of any part of the arm, hand, or fingers, or any other feeling that doesn't seem quite right. As others have said, I encourage you to check out the LE section of BCO and the www.stepup-speakout.org. website.
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Mary,
Thanks for your reply. I will definitely check the LE section. I was warned of the risk of lymphedema by my mom who had a lumpectomy on one side and all nodes removed on the affected side. She also had radiation. She has been doing the LE exercises including arm elevation, shaking the raised arm, stroking and tapping of the skin religiously to this day for 15 years since her surgery. She's fine, God bless her. So i did ask my surgeon about LE even before my surgery. My surgeon (a woman with BC in her family) told me that based on how my nodes mapped, i am at a very low risk of lymphedema as the sentinel nodes were just draining lymph from the breasts not from the arms. Anyway, i am mindful of LE and after any strenuous exercise like weight lifting or pushups i do keep my arms elevated in bed and shake them, and watch for any signs of LE. I also had no radiations and no reconstruction. How did you discover that you had LE? Was it soon after you started exercise? Even if you have it, once you are under proper care and know how to manage it, you can lift weights, right ? Thanks again for your advice.p> -
I found out I had LE when I started googling my symptoms - cording, a heavy feeling in the arm, and swelling/redness in the elbow. I had the cording and swelling/redness shortly after surgery, but my concerns were dismissed as normal healing. I realize now that they were not. The heavy feeling and additional swelling came once I was cleared for exercise after my BMX. Again, my concerns were dismissed, and I didn't get proper care for several months. Finally I pushed hard for a scrip for an LE evaluation and was dx with early stage LE. Fortunately I happened to get a fabulous certified lymphedema therapist who got the swelling under control and taught me LE management techniques. She then started me on a weight training program to build up arm strength safely. She had me start with one pound weights and very low reps. I felt like an idiot as I'd been routinely using 12 pound hand weights prior to b/c, but by that time I knew enough about LE to know that I did not want to progress to the later stages. So I went along with it and gradually built up my strength. So yes, you can lift weights, but it must be done slowly and carefully, preferably under the guidance of a CLT.
Quite honestly, I've never heard of shaking and tapping the arm as an LE prevention measure. Manual Lymph Drainage is part of LE maintenance, but stroking done as part of MLD must be done only after an initial clearing of the remaining nodes, and the stroking must be done in a precise way in a precise order to move the accumulated fluid away from the affected areas towards the lymph nodes. But since there is some evidence that there is a genetic component to LE risk, the fact that your mom doesn't have LE after all these years is good news.
With 7 nodes removed, you may skip the push ups or weightlifting for now, and ask your surgeon for a scrip for an evaluation by a certified LE therapist just to make sure. The therapist will evaluate for LE and your risk of it, and can help you design an exercise program to safely bring back your strength and build some muscle. LE is incurable once you get it, so an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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Thanks. Very helpful. I will ask for a script. Hopefully, they will give it to me even though i am without symptoms. My mom told me about stroking, shaking and lightly tapping the skin while arm is elevated starting around the hand and moving towards the shoulder. That's what her treaters taught her years ago. I will lay off the heavier weights for now. I am glad i found these boards. It is great that you have been able to go back to do lifting. Thanks again.
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Ditto to everything Natsfan said. I too have a wonderful LE therapist who nipped my LE in the bud. I have been working out in the gym for a good 6 months now, but as Natsfan describes, slowly and steadily and with tiny weights. All the same, I am much stronger now than I was 6 months (or 12 months) ago.
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