SE of DIEP?

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Anonymous
Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
edited February 2017 in Breast Reconstruction

Just wondering if I'm the only one with an interesting SE from having DIEP both sides almost two years ago.  If I move or do a curl up/sit up a certain way using abdominal muscles, I notice a cramping or tightening in my tummy which feels like a big knot of muscles.  It hurts too for a few moments until it relaxes itself.  Does anyone out there have this happen too?  Was this from not wearing the binder longer than 2 weeks?  My PS said they did not take any muscle during the DIEP but I'm sure since it was bilateral, they interrupted the muscle structures.  ???  Input appreciated ladies !

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2012

    Don't be shy -- someone HAS to at least have a SE of the DIEP --really?  I also wonder does anybody ask about phantom breast pains - is it related to all the surgical clips in the tissue or what does your oncs/surgeons think?  Help. 

  • dltnhm
    dltnhm Member Posts: 873
    edited October 2012

    I don't have anything like you are describing concerning my abs. As for a binder - I did not wear one at all. My PS did not have me wear a binder or special girdle and NO bra either.

    Others will respond. Give them time :-)

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited October 2012

    shelly, any chance you have a hernia?  That's one SE that's not uncommon.

    As far as the binder, I was told after I wore mine for quite a few weeks thinking it was to help my tummy, that it's mostly for back support.  So I doubt that has anything to do with the discomfort you're experiencing.   

    But absolutely report it to your PS and start from there....    Deanna

  • curveball
    curveball Member Posts: 3,040
    edited October 2012

    @shelly56, I just last night went to a support group meeting for women considering breast reconstruction. Several of the women there say they have some abdominal discomfort of various kinds, many months or even years after surgery. They didn't go into specifics about exactly what kind of discomfort. Even though no muscle was actually removed, the muscle had to be disturbed in order to get at the blood vessel. Also, the nurse who facilitates the group pointed out that the fascia (thin covering over the muscle) is cut, so possibly scarring or some other issue with fascia healing is behind what you are experiencing.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2012

    dlb823:  A hernia would feel different I think.  That is usually an intestine coming through the muscle wall and it would hurt whether doing anything or not.  This is like a hard knot under the skin, that I can actually feel, then in a few seconds, it relaxes and goes down. 

    Curveball:  I would agree that women have  SE's long after the recon surgery.  Am going to call the PS and ask how long this may take to actually 'heal' or if it will ever -- heal or go away.  If it is scarring, that would be good news to me in that they can surgically reduce that, but then again, scarring from that too...??

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2012

    Ok my PS's nurse got back to me and said I was probably more active (I work out 3 x a week) than most and and that may be the cause of the muscle spasms/cramping.  I said no, because I had that happen right after surgery and well before I started my working out.  I'm going to consult with a second PS in 2013 and see what his opinion is and also may do 2nd revision.  Thanks all for sharing !!  (((()))

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited October 2012

    Shelley - I had a DIEP, and I work out 6 days a week, including a lot of core, Pilates, and yoga work.  I had some cramping like that for the first 6 months or so as the nerves regenerated, but nothing since.  I think your idea to get a second opinion is good.  You may wish to get copies of your surgical notes to make sure you actually had a DIEP.  There have been women here on BCO who were assured they'd had a DIEP, but when they reviewed their surgical notes they actually had a free TRAM, and muscle had been taken.  By the way, I did not have a binder or any other special surgical garment after my DIEP. 

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2012

    NatsFan:  I've been over the surgery notes more than a dozen times and it states DIEP, and post-surgery visit with my doc he stated he only had took maybe a thumbnail of muscle or less.  Does your tummy still feel somewhat tight and somewhat numb also?  How far out are you from the DIEP?  And if my pre-authorization would have stated anything but DIEP I would have noticed also.  I do think this will resolve itself in time.  I didn't have a binder after the initial surgery, just wore one for about two weeks after the revision.  Keep up the great workout routine!!! 

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited October 2012

    Shelly - from everything I've read, if he removed a "thumbnail of muscle" then you didn't have a true DIEP.  DIEP removes NO muscle whatsoever - the muscle fibers are separated while the surgeon teases out the blood supply, but nothing is cut, and the separated muscle eventually reseals and heals.  While a thumbnail size doesn't sound big, again, from what I've read the muscle involved is only about 3 inches wide.  From a muscle that small in diameter, a thumbnail is a large amount to remove. 

    I'm over 4 years out.  My PS required that I stay in a "flexed" position for the first 3 weeks after surgery, only allowed me to gradually straighten out after that.  I had a lot of tightness at the beginning, but over the years it's relaxed and I have no tightness whatsoever now.  The area around my scar is numb for an inch or so above and below it, but other than that I have feeling. 

    One weird thing I did have this summer - I had a almond-size lump suddenly appear deep in my abdomen - I noticed it after a particularly grueling core workout and figured I'd given myself a hernia.  I know it wasn't there before because I have truncal LE and have to do deep abdominal MLD daily, so when I did my MLD the next morning and found it, I knew for a fact that the lump hadn't been there the day before.  I had it checked out by my PCP who referred me to a hernia repair surgeon.  He said it wasn't a hernia, but had no idea what it was.  As I was contemplating my options, a few weeks later it worked its way to near the surface and abcessed and I ended up in ER having it lanced.  It was an open wound for the next few weeks, and one day when I was cleaning it out, a stitch came out!!!  I took a picture and sent it to my ps who confirmed it was a fascia stitch from my DIEP - 4 years later!!!  I'm wondering if you could have a stitch like that that's causing issues? Just reaching for some explanation . . . your consult with the second PS will probably shed a lot more light on what's going on with you.

  • cg1234
    cg1234 Member Posts: 181
    edited November 2012

    Shelly, I was worried about this cramping issue pre-diep because I had significant ab cramping on one side after my c-section. It was as if my whole right ab had a Charley horse for several secs and would become hard as a rock. It would often happen when I was sitting up or twisting side to side. My ob didn't have much advice but I saw other women had this issue on occasion. It got better with time and I haven't had a problem since diep 1 wk ago. Relax and breathe through it. Talk to your dr but I think it will improve as you heal and become more active. Good luck!

  • melster
    melster Member Posts: 96
    edited December 2012

    I'm having the same sort of thing but I am 7 months out from my DIEP. I have been slightly freaking out but keep telling myself it has to be the nerves regenerating, right? Because it moves up and down my abdomen...mainly on the right side, but it's never the same spot. So weird.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2012

    NatsFan:  I did not have anything but the DIEP & I could show you the operation notes.  Sometimes it is necessary to take away a small portion of muscle.  My arteries were hiding most of the time and actually shut down during the surgery so it could have been unavoidable.  As my PS put it, anytime they went to touch an artery, it would shrink or try to hide.  Sorry you had an absess in the abdomen, but that does make some kind of sense that it was a stitch.  I will ask about that when I see the second PS next month --

    I was glad to see the post from Cindy, who has the same issue only hers was after a c-section.  And when you think about it, both surgeries pretty much go the same horizontal fashion and the fascia and muscles are interruped.  I'm counting on the cramps & knots getting less and less frequent.  I did get my PS to address the cramping issue and he suggested doing an MRI if I should want to check it out further, to see if something else could be a cause. 

  • Bayscoolmom
    Bayscoolmom Member Posts: 1
    edited February 2017

    did you ever find any answers regarding your stomach cramping n spasming ? Mine is doing the same exact thing. I move a certain way and it cramps up so tight it doubles me over and you can actually feel it knotted up and till finally releases about 15 seconds later...it's been a yea

  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited February 2017

    Hi Bayscoolmom, and welcome to Breastcancer.org!

    This thread is pretty "old" as nobody posted here since 2012 so, in case Shelly doesn't see your question, you can try send her a private message by clicking on her username above. You could also start your own new thread to share your particular situation and find answers and support from other community members. Under this same forum should be fine. Let us know if you need help with this!

    Best wishes,

    The Mods

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