An Alternative approach to Stage IV Health and choices

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  • 3littlegirls
    3littlegirls Member Posts: 853
    edited July 2012

    I see my ND tomorrow.  I will try and remember to ask him.  

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  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited July 2012

    that's one thing i havent given up. coffee!..i keep hearing lately, on tv, from friends etc that moderate to high daily coffee intake is now being considered a good thing to prevent and/or slow cancer progression. Does anyone know where this research/info is coming from?

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  • 3littlegirls
    3littlegirls Member Posts: 853
    edited July 2012

    I forgot to ask!  :(  Sorry I see him again on friday.  I will email him and ask.  

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  • 3littlegirls
    3littlegirls Member Posts: 853
    edited July 2012
    that's life it is probably coming from Nabob. lol Just kidding.  Sealed
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  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited July 2012

    3lg :)

    I saw this on the MBC fb page this morning, i thought it was very interesting:

    http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/07/18/stress-fuels-breast-cancer-metastasis-to-bone/41830.html

    Stress Fuels Breast Cancer Metastasis to Bone
    By JANICE WOOD Associate News Editor
    Reviewed by John M. Grohol, Psy.D. on July 18, 2012
    A new study with mice shows that the "fight or flight" response to stress can promote breast cancer metastasis to the bone.

    Researchers at the Vanderbilt University Center for Bone Biology demonstrated in mice that activation of the sympathetic nervous system - the "fight-or-flight" response to stress - primes the bone environment for breast cancer cell metastasis. The researchers were able to prevent breast cancer cell lesions in bone using propranolol, a cardiovascular medicine that inhibits sympathetic nervous system signals.

    Metastasis - the spread of cancer cells to organs and bone - is more likely to kill patients than a primary breast tumor, said Florent Elefteriou, Ph.D., director of the Vanderbilt Center for Bone Biology.

    "Preventing metastasis is really the goal we want to achieve," he said.

    Elefteriou and his colleagues learned in previous studies that the sympathetic nervous system stimulated bone remodeling, and that it used some of the same signaling molecules that have been implicated in breast cancer metastasis to bone.

    "We came to the hypothesis that sympathetic activation might remodel the bone environment and make it more favorable for cancer cells to metastasize there," Elefteriou said.

    Evidence from the clinic supported this notion, he said. Breast cancer patients who suffered from stress or depression - which active the sympathetic nervous system - had shorter survival times.

    To explore the link, the researchers followed fluorescently "tagged" human breast cancer cells that were injected into the mouse heart to model the stage of metastasis when breast cancer cells leave the primary site and move through the body.

    They found that treating the mice with a drug that mimics sympathetic nervous system activation caused more cancer lesions in bone. Using physical restraint to stress the mice and activate the sympathetic nervous system also caused more cancer lesions in bone, the researchers report.

    Treating the restrained mice with propranolol, one of a family of blood pressure medicines called "beta-blockers," reduced the number of bone lesions.

    The investigators demonstrated that sympathetic nervous system activation increases levels of a signaling molecule called RANKL, which is known to promote the formation of osteoclasts, which are bone cells that break down bone tissue. RANKL has also been implicated in cell migration, and Elefteriou and colleagues were able to show that breast cancer cell migration to the bone depends on RANKL.

    According to the researchers, the findings suggest that beta-blockers or drugs that interfere with RANKL signaling, such as denosumab, may be useful in preventing breast cancer cell metastasis to bone.

    Propranolol and other beta-blockers are inexpensive and safe in most patients, the researchers note. They may be a good choice for long-term treatment if future studies in patients with breast cancer confirm their ability to block cancer cell metastasis to bone, Elefteriou said.

    "If something as simple as a beta-blocker could prevent cancer metastasis to bone, this would impact the treatment of millions of patients worldwide," he said.

    Efforts to reduce stress and depression in patients with cancer may have unappreciated benefits in terms of metastasis prevention, he added.

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  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited July 2012

    ( I've been living with the 'fight or flight' response activated for years, since my teens) Back to meditation for me!

    ommmm.........

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  • ibcmets
    ibcmets Member Posts: 4,286
    edited July 2012

    Thats life:  interesting article.  I was diagnosed stage IV ibc with bone mets from the start in 6/09.  In 2008 I was finishing up with a divorce and had a tremendous amount of stress and did not take care of myself for a few years before.

    I know a lot of people go through stress with divorce and I could imagine the impact on our health.

    Great article.

    Terri

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  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited July 2012

    Ohmmmmm...

    Massage also works wonders for me. Ahhhhhh....

    I want to teach my daughter how to reduce/deal with stress. She needs it. Her life is so much more stressful than mine was at her age. Can't be healthy. Maybe we'll do yoga together regularly.

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited July 2012

    That is interesting. I had in any event decided to try to reduce stress and increase happiness after my DX, simply because I want to live as well as possible.



    I am finding that wxercise, especially walking, is really helpful. I also make a better effort to see friends and do things I enjoy.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2012

    The stress issue is what I keep stressing to my Hubby about his driving.  He is better, but for  a slow driver he is a challenge to relax around.  Ever see The Thing About My Folks?  The one scene I remember most was about the dad's driving as he weaves from side to side on a country road, when Dad says, "Your mother always complains about my driving, it's not so bad, now is it?"   Son says, "It's no walk in the park, Pop."  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429177/plotsummary

     We must counteract stress with good feelings and extra sleep and laughter.  I have alot of counteracting to do.  I try to read lately, but every time I am not staring at the road something goes badly awry like the hay truck going 5 mph.

    Then there is the computer, bad dreams, finances, tornados, you know.

    Coffeee I gave up for most part, but a good organic coffee I would drink each day.  Wish I knew where the info came from too.

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  • Stormynyte
    Stormynyte Member Posts: 650
    edited July 2012

    Gah, now I'm stressed about being stressed! Lol

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited July 2012

    DianeEssa:  I hear you about the driving...finally we started listening to books on tape when we take long trips because he is less inclined to speed and I'm less inclined to back seat drive..lol!  It makes the trip go faster, particularly if it's a road we've covered many times before.  Motivational tapes are great.

    I don't want any stress in my life right now and I'm quick to point that out to kids and SO's so they are aware of my needs. 

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited July 2012

    Stormynyte, you have the Best. Avatar. Ever.  

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  • steelrose
    steelrose Member Posts: 3,798
    edited July 2012

    I do wonder about the impact of stress on us. I've actually distanced myself from a couple of people because of this. I'm not very good at handling "toxic" folks... a lot of suppressed feelings... so no more. But I will not give up my coffee!!

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  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited July 2012

    Kaara, I use motivational tapes that I put on MP3 on my iPod to get to sleep.  On long trips I put music on shuffle and skip anything that's not up-beat or making my spine tingle.  I have so many tracks it's never repetitive and I arrive in a brilliant mood in no time at all. Hubby likes to listen to spoken books.  We love our MP3 players!

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited July 2012

    Steelrose, I have cut out certain people too. Once I got thencancer DX, I decided life really was too short to allow others to make me miserable over and over again.

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited July 2012

    I have always tried to surround myself with positive people.  My DD went through a very negative stage (perimenopause) but I certainly couldn't cut her out of my life, so I had to try and be her sounding board.  When she kept doing the same things over and over, regardless of any good advice, I had to just "let go" of my feelings and tune her out when she talked because she wasn't listening anyway.  It worked.

    My BF is another one who can be extremely negative at times...he has MS and will sometimes completely obsess about his disease.  I've suggested he find a site like this one, but he doesn't like going online and talking to people he doesn't know...oh well.  Now when he starts, I tune him out as well, because he really doesn't want advice, just wants to vent about how he feels. 

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  • SillyMama
    SillyMama Member Posts: 173
    edited August 2012

    I am SO happy to have found this alternative therapy forum. BC-dot-org got me though traditional treatment in 2004, but now I have a dear friend, recently diagnosed, who wants to go the alternative therapy route. I thought there might be a forum where she can get the support she deserves as she walks the path, so I'm really glad I will be able to tell her you all are here. I will let her know, and I hope that she will visit you.

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  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited August 2012

    Kaara & Joy, I am curious what kind of tapes/Cd's you have found most helpful. I have found having my mp3 and shuffle (got 2 for different things) with a variety of music has been helpful. Am also looking for other healing, meditation tracts - any suggestions?

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited August 2012

    EWB....I have a channel of music on my TV called Soundscapes which I listen to frequently.  It is spa like music, very soothing and relaxing.  If I want to elevate my mood, sometimes I listen to pop music with an upbeat...works for me every time!

    My BF and I have just decided on a trial separation, so I am going to be falling back on this stuff quite a bit.  I'm hoping it will get me through this tough phase of my life right now. 

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  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited August 2012

    Kaara,

    So sorry to hear about your personal stress. Come what may, I know you will come through it with your usual grace ( but you are allowed to scream, cry or yell as needed). I may be going against the grain here, but soothing new agey music doesn't do it for me. My great stress reliever, mood elevator is Broadway show music. I love the great classics as well as the new stuff (Wicked is the best!). This reflects my background, having grown up in NYC, as well as my nerdiness. Take good care of yourself.

    Caryn

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  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited August 2012

    Kaara I also love Broadway music along with the musicals. I have a bunch of those new age sound tapes, and they just bore me! I also love music from my parents age, don't quite know why. I think it might be because every Saturday night my mom and dad and our next door neighbors got together and sang around the piano those old songs while our neighbor played the piano. Great memories.

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited August 2012

    kira:  As they say...whatever floats your boat!  It's all about what works for you.  I always pretend I'm getting a massage...lol!

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  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited August 2012

    Kaara, thanks, I will have to check it out. I know there are some music channels on the tv but never looked at them. 

    So very sorry to hear about the seperation.. so much to deal with on top of the cancer stuff. Healing energy and prayers are coming your way.

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  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited August 2012

    EWB, I can listen to any spoken recordings that are interesting to me.  It could be philosophy, astronomy, spiritual, new age, anything interesting to take my mind off those circular thoughts and worries that might otherwise keep me awake. TED talks are good if you like that sort of thing. Your favourite radio station might work. I have it on quietly so I have to strain to hear it and lie very still.  If it's too loud it just intrudes and I can't sleep. After a few sentences I usually fall asleep and the sleep timer turns off the iPod.  I often turn it on again in the night if I wake and don't immediately fall back to sleep.

    I also use music sometimes, depending on my mood. It's mostly trial and error to see what helps and what hinders sleep.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2012

    Stress related, today I woke up in a so-so mood.  But there were things to be done.  At least the digital camera started to work so I could 'could' list on eBay if eBay was 'recording' what I am listing and drafting.  Hubby came home from midnights, we decided to go to big town and bank, through country.... we are talking, he is 'driving' and I look at road and he runs over a poor little turtle, he did not see it... so what is he looking at then, not the road.  Freaked me out.  I was shaking for hours.  Then to find out he had air fresheners in vehicle for when he loaded it to his friend that he forgot to take out and I am highly allergic to them, so the migraine-headache that came on was them, I realized later.  I swear as nice as this man is he is my biggest stressor.  Thirty-two years.  After that start to my day, could not even meditate, my mind circles and bucks.  I am not stage IV.  I am an alts who knows a little about a little and wanted to share here per the thread originator's invite for info.  Point being, if I had to give up stress like sugar and white flour etc., it is sad I would have to choose to give up him and it has me thinking that this is pretty bad.  It is sad.  My daughter is a huge second.  EBay is third. 

    Kaara, sad for you too.  You are in the thick of it then.   Must be something in the stars?

    EWB - the book I am relying on right now, Outsmart Your Cancer, suggesting that for your friend.

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  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited August 2012

    exbrn..love the musicals too. they do create a joy in me. I play them loud, and sing lol. Also Frank Sinatra, etc, hence my user name. 

    Outsmart your cancer? sounds like a good read, will look for it.

    Im going to try to find a cd with cicada sounds, crickets, and also magpies. They relax me, though i know they drive some people nuts.

    Kaara, hang in there, Steelrose, i have ended my toxic 17 yr friendship with my best friend. Very hard, but this disease brings clarity doesnt it. 

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  • steelrose
    steelrose Member Posts: 3,798
    edited August 2012

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who has cut people out after getting this diagnosis. It seems like most people are sad that they've been abandoned by their friends and I'm axing 'em! At least the ones that cause me stress. And yes, this disease does bring clarity, thats-life... It can be very painful but we must do what is necessary to survive! I hope you're happy and doing well.



    Rose.

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  • cheery
    cheery Member Posts: 311
    edited August 2012

    That's Life

    Not sure if this is what you're looking for (coffee protects against BC):-

    http://ecancer.org/news/1637

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  • sarahlou1967
    sarahlou1967 Member Posts: 153
    edited August 2012

    Hi all, I have been lurking on this thread for a long time now and think I should finally join in, I was dx with both primary and secondary lung mets back in April last year and it would seem like everyone else this has sent me helter skelter on a research trip like no other! I have found reading survival stories to be a great help in building my positive attitude also writing all the mountains of information down in a blog has helped me to make sense of the advice/knowledge out there on this subject, I've sort of put some order into the chaos! I have found reading Bernie Seigel's book Love, Medicine and Miracles to be a great great help, also the wonderful Kris Carr of Crazy Sexy Diet a true inspiration. My latest recomend for a read is by Debbie Shapiro called 'Your body speaks your mind' this book so far is brilliant a bit like the Louise Haye book 'you can heal yourself'. 

    Stress and depression are tricky to deal with, especially if you are naturally highly strung, you cant change who you are, you are what you are! I have found various complimentary treatments to be a great help spiritual healing, acupuncture, reflexology and massage all help to relax you and in tend to treat the SE problems I was experiencing like hot flushes (brought on by chemo and exasperated by tamoxifen), migraines, constant constipation, fatigue, and the latest one is achey limbs. The SE alone cause depression and I have found by reminding myself of this, it sort of nips the depression in the bud before it can get a hold of me. 

    A good clearing out of your emotional dirty laundry is a tremendously good thing, I have recently flushed away a couple of supposed friendships that were so so negative for me in particular a girl friend who when I was first dx told me that BC was a punishment from god, she said this too me in the same week I was told I had lung mets, also like to add she's supposed to be an atheist!!! Who needs enemys when you have friends like that? So be clear get rid.

    Sending you all love and light

    sarahlou1967 

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