Lymphedea from bp

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  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    Thanks again for all your posts. I DID MAKE A FUSS and it got me no where.  Initially, i was told there was a 3 month wait to see a therapist. SO i went in person to the facility and begged him to fit me in for an appt. He actually fit me in 5 days later, and put me ahead on a waiting list. When i went to see him on Frid. about switching therapists, i got a firm NOWAY. He said he can't switch from OT to PT for me, plus i need a  new script  from dr. and claims that my insurance would need to approve it, plus i would need it to be approved by insurance and THEN  i would have to go back on the waiting list, which really could be months. This guy is incharge of deciding who goes where, so he could keep me waiting 3 months for another appt. So we agreed i would finish with the therapist i am seeing. I told him i started 2 weeks ago and am now worse, cause of the care.  It really is the fitter's fault and she doesn't work for the hospital.  The fitter blamed the fitting on the therapist cause she oked it.  THIS is a nightmare. I am trying so hard to be civil and nice to these people. THEY act as if they are doing me a favor.  I am stuck with this fitter, just want my garment that fits and hope to never see her again!! The sched. told the therapist my feelings, which if am so embrassed by. I was given 4 weeks of appt. if needed. She claims there isn't anything else to do for me and i just need the garments. I begged her to keep me until i get my garment and see that i can control this. She said we'll see how it goes and i am seeing her Monday again. She said we'll take it day to day at this pt. Everything is up in the air. I am just really so disappointed, depressed and so bitter about this care.   The fitter is a private co. that comes to local hospitals all over MD, once a week.  Like i said, the week before, she didn't even show up for my 2nd appt. to give me my garments. SO i had to wait an extra week. Sorry about the complaining. Thanks for all of your suggestions, advice, and support.    I am usually so good at getting what i need, but i am at a total loss this time dealing with this.  

    I am hoping that if i can just finish up and maintain this my self, i can do a follow up appt. before the end of the year and get the therapist i wanted in the first place.   Don't you go every year to see a therapist? or only when necessary? 

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    Ericamary, The scheduler is a royal jerk, IMO. The prescription likely said "Lymphedema Therapy, treat and evaluate as needed" and didn't specifiy PT or OT. Some insurances have different benefits for PT and OT. When I took my course, in June, there were both, and the OT's were uncomfortable with legs.

    I have seen both, and massage therapists.

    My personal LE therapist is a massage therapist, she has over 20 years of experience and is highly trained. Because she's a massage therapist, insurance doesn't reimburse for her, so I pay her out of pocket, but what I pay her is close to the copay I had at the initial clinic I went to, which was staffed by massage therapists, and I paid $80 copay a visit.

    The scheduler sounds like the kind of jerk who has enough power to deny you what you want, and lack of professionalism--like sharing your concerns with the therapist. Unfortunately, I've found when I make a fuss, I need to find someone high enough up the food chain--a supervisor, the head of the department, who has the power to make a change. Little petty jerks like the scheduler have just enough power to deny you what you need.

    You would not need a new prescription, and if for some reason you did--it takes a few seconds for them to get one from your doctor--they just fax it over.

    Re: the fitter--it's really common for LE treatment facilities to use a private DME company. I've had bad fitters--or inexperienced ones--and they're a nightmare. Good ones are amazing, but because DME companies make so little money on lymphedema products, they're hard to find.

    She put you in the Jobst off the shelf glove--I don't know a fitter or therapist who likes them. The fabric is stiff and the fit poor, and no garment should ever hurt, ever.

    Better off the shelf products are Juzo gloves, medi 95 gloves--for me, and I have hand swelling, and others like Farrow gloves.

    I'm terrible at knowing the geography of Maryland, but many people--binney included--use the "hanger" company for products, and they don't have an office in Maryland, but they do have one in DC

    http://www.hanger.com/locations/Pages/LocationByState.aspx?state=District%20of%20Columbia

    I also found Adventist Lymphedema services in Silver Springs, and Rockville MD

    http://www.adventistrehab.com/ARHM/services/outpatient/lymphedema-therapy/

    Here's my early struggles: I developed LE shortly after surgery, was sent to the clinic at the center where I got my surgery, saw two massage therapists who were clueless, on my own saw a PT who was equally clueless,--was given the wrong exercises, poorly fitted sleeves, told I didn't have LE as "it never starts in the hand". I then--and I'd made contact with Binney by then--tried a woman at a hospital about a half hour drive away who was poorly trained, then tried the largest hospital in the state--but didn't get one of their trained therapists, but an OT who was clueless, I then got a name of someone in Boston--an hour drive to Mass General--and saw her monthly for a while. She was good at first, then awful.

    But, about two months into it, I found my amazing LE therapist, who was going into her own private practice, and she, as a massage therapist, wanted a PT to consult, which is why I drove all over and had such horrible experiences.

    When the Mass General PT, sent me an email that "you have swelling, but because it's not 2 cm, it's not LE", I complained to her boss, and was referred to a woman closer to home, and saw her for a few sessions, and only see my LE massage therapist, who I see about twice a month for maintenance MLD sessions. 

    I have a fitter who keeps changing jobs, but I follow her.

    When I googled LE therapists in Maryland, this woman's name came up--she was trained by Lerner--which is great--but doesn't seem to be in practice right now, but might know good people

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/caroline-peyrone-pt-dpt-clt/38/329/584

    Here's a page with her contact info--I think it's outdated.

    http://www.healthgrades.com/provider/caroline-peyrone-2gymj/address#OfficesAndHospitalsPracticesAndOffices_anchor

    There is a great article, by a great LE PT, Linda Boyle, about the need for a 50,000 mile check up--how patients need to be seen every 6 months on a minimum.

    So hard to fight for good care when you're frustrated and tired. You'll get it. You can pm me if it helps.

    Kira

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    Ericamary!--I found this amazing post by the woman who blogs as toddlerplanet about her favorite therapists in your area! There are links in her blog page:

    http://toddlerplanet.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/lymphedema-therapy-in-d-c/

    Lymphedema Therapy in D.C.

    Looking for a lymphedema therapist or physical therapist in Washington, D.C. or the surrounding area? I've seen a BUNCH of them, and these are my absolute favorite physical therapists who I would recommend to any breast cancer survivor (or new mom, cough cough) in Maryland, Northern Virginia, or Washington, D.C.

    Bretta FabianBretta Fabian. Bretta is my all-time favorite physical therapist. Her years of training and experience have helped her get directly to the root of the problem and know exactly what to do to help get the body back working the way it should be. Over the years, Bretta has eased the swelling in my arms, taught me manual lymph drainage techniques, stretched the cords of scar tissue running up and down my arms until they gently release (important both for lymph drainage and mobility), manipulated scar tissue on my chest (to relieve pain and unbind the muscles), put my back back in joint, and realigned my pelvis after childbirth (ooh, that was embarrasing to type. But if you've ever had that pain, you need to know there's help out there, and it may only take one visit). Bretta is affiliated with the George Washington University Medical Center and works closely with their surgeons. The only drawback is that her practice does not take insurance or medicare, so you're on your own. Bretta is at the Center for Wellness Solutions, 202-862-0770.

    Vicki and Janice at The Adventist Rehabilitation Hospital of Maryland. Adventist Rehab has five lymphedema specialists. I have been very happy with and can highly recommend Vicki, who trained under the founder of the Norton School of Lymphatic Therapy. Vicki helped me understand how the lymph system works, both verbally and by referencing the instructive posters that surround the treatment area. Vicki is a master at lymphedema wrapping, has instructed both my husband and me in manual lymph drainage techniques, and has a cheerful, supportive demeanor in all that she does. Vicki is creative and helped me find lymphedema wrapping materials when I was allergic to everything she'd worked with before. She also returns phone calls from current patients and aids in ordering lymphedema sleeves, gloves, and nightwear garments. Adventist Rehab also has a half-dozen or more physical therapists at each site who are highly skilled in a number of different hands-on and rehabilitative therapy techniques. Janice in particular is a real treasure for hands-on work including scar tissue manipulation, muscle-energy techniques, and rehab to restore everyday function. (Both Vicki and Janice are referred to here by first name only, as they don't have a web presence of their own.) Adventist accepts many forms of insurance with a physician's referral. 240-864-6200.

    Katina Marinos, MPT, is the chief physical therapist at a small practice in Rockville called Manual and Sports Therapy. Her specialties, as you may be able to tell from the name, are manual work and sports medicine, although she worked for years with an orthopedic medicine group and has an exhaustive knowledge of the interplay between the bones and muscles, making treatment comprehensive and effective. Katina is a physical therapist who can take you from couch to marathon, as both she and her almost 70-year old father have run marathons in the past few years; she trains people of all ages and abilities to run well and without injury. This family-run, woman-owned business is a comforting, encouraging place to heal, and Katina has been able to work wonders realigning my bones, neck to legs in the past few years. If your bones or muscles hurt, she's absolutely wonderful. Katina accepts some insurance with a referral. 301-770-1613.

    I've seen at least five other physical therapists around the area in the past three years, in a quest to find one to relieve the pain AND take my insurance, but these are my absolute favorites and it's not fair to keep them to myself any longer. If you live outside the D.C. area, to find a lymphedema therapist, check out the National Lymphedema Network. If you need help affording lymphedema sleeves, gloves, and/or gauntlets, try the Marilyn Westbrook Garment Fund. If you think that insurance should cover these garments that cost $100-$1000 each that are necessary for breast cancer survivors and other edema suffers, please let your Congresspersons know that you support H.R. 4662, the Lymphedema Diagnosis and Treatment Cost Saving Act of 2010, introduced February 23 by Congressman Larry Kissell (NC-8) and now cosponsored by Congressman Ron Paul (TX-14).
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  • KS1
    KS1 Member Posts: 632
    edited July 2012

    ericamary ... with my health insurance, the rx is written as eval/treat without specifying by OT or PT.  the rehab center where i get treated has both pt and ot le therapists.  whoever I see for the initial eval then writes the letter to insurance requesting authorization for a certain number of sessions.  if the therapist who does the request is an ot, then the insurance authorizes that number of sessions with an ot.  if the therapist who does the request is a pt, then the insurance authorizes that number of sessions with a pt.  the upshot is that i can't switch between ot's and pt's.

    in some ways, for me, the most frustrating part of le is the search for gloves that are acceptable (i.e. keeps swelling down, without impeding function or hurting).  i'm with kira ... i hate jobst gloves ... both custom and off the shelf.  

    the first fitter i saw gave me class 2 jobst garments.  i was miserable, and i didn't know enough to know there were other brands, and more than one level of compression.  there are a number of companies other than jobst, and most make more than one type of glove. Bring the page from the step up/speakout page that lists different brands to your meeting with the fitter, and ask you fitter why she is choosing jobst over the other options.  

     http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Lymphedema_garments.htm 

    if she won't tell you or says jobst are all she deals with, you need to find another fitter.   brightlifedirect.com has a lot of brands and is based in washington dc.  i wonder if they have a store front or are just online. some (?all) of their staff are fitters.

    ill-fitting garments are worse than no garments for le. ks1

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    KS1, you are brilliant! I totally forgot that brightlifedirect is based in DC and is staffed with fitters--a great resource!

    http://www.brightlifedirect.com/


    Scott Christine Juan Nancy

    Meet our
    certified fitters
    877-545-8585
    Mon - Fri
    9 am to 6 pm, ET

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012
    Hi, thanks so much for this information. I think i still have to give the fitter a chance cause i signed something saying i owed her money for the jobst and she has my information for insurance?  I will never use her again!! I have to bring the Jobst back to her since i do have and wore for 6-8 hrs. Do i wash before returning? 
    I hope she can fit me?  then i will definately go to BrightLight for more garments and my next fitting in 6 months. Thanks so much.
  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    KSI, yes, what you explained is the reason i can't switch.  Also the information also posted about the therapist in my area isn't current. YES, i am being seen at the Adventist Hospital listed above. Vicki has left.    I also contacted Natsfan, and she used Vicki and she now doesn't have a therapist.

    I was authorized 50 visits from my insurance from the script. Does this mean if i stop therapy this week after 3 weeks, and in a few months feel i am getting worse, I get an other script and start all over again? I would think yes?

     Maybe i am being naive, but hoping after i get the glove and sleeve, and do the mld, 2x a day, that i will beable to manage myself?

    THanks for all the blogs, and information above. I will check it out.  

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    I think it's terrible my therapist isn't even aware of the the other venders locally!! Again, like i said, my fitter is so intimating!!

  • Denise-G
    Denise-G Member Posts: 1,777
    edited July 2012

    Look for another Lymphedema Specialist even if you have to travel to another city.  It is essential that you have a connection with them and that they HELP YOU!

    Mine is absolutely amazing and fantastic.  I have learned so much from her.  She makes me laugh, listens to my complaints, helps me find solutions, and says if I want to climb Mount Everest she will make sure my arm makes it (body may not but arm will).   Her massage techniques are wonderful and so helpful.  My Radiation Department also offers Lymphatic Massage by another wonderful therapist.   

    Learning I had Lymphedema was upsetting.  But I have learned to read the signs, learned how to do self massage, exercises, etc. and go see therapist when I need her.  It has become a part of me and I don't stress over it since I've had all this help.

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    YOU are so lucky, not all of us have stories like yours. At this point, i can't pick up and just go anywhere for therapy. I have kids to take care of, drive and an elderly mom!!

    One other question i have for you experts. I was very active before and never had a problem, do everything i was told not to and never had LE.  Is this the drs. fault that took my blood pressure that this  happened?  I had my first bout with LE within 24 hours of her taking my blood pressure.

  • KS1
    KS1 Member Posts: 632
    edited July 2012

    Hi Ericamary,

    Yes, you should wash the garment before return it.  Just hand wash it and line dry it.

    every insurance company is different, but if you switch therapists or need therapy in a few months, you may well  need to get a new rx from one of your docs, and your new therapist will have to re-request sessions.  That your insurance authorized 50 sessions is excellent ... never heard of anyone getting that many sessions approved.  If you have only gone to a few of the 50 sessions, I doubt your insurance company will give you grief when your therapist makes the request.

    Another thing, once you get garments that work for you and are stable, if you are going to wear them every day, you probably want to get 2 sets.   If you only have 1 set, you are sunk if the garments don't dry overnight or get dirty mid-day.  You do NOT have to get the second set from the same person that you got the first set from.  Shop around for the best price. KS1 

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    finally got fitted today with a mediven glove and arm sleeve. Is is actually comfortable, so hope it fits correctly!!

    Just feels tight in the middle of the bend of the inside of the elbow is tight. Otherthen that almost forget its on?? glove feels not very tight? its a II CCL 1 and the armsleeve is an III CCL1 if you know what that means? I guess compression is the lowest and i measured myself when i got home and seems to be correct?

    Should it be pretty comfortable? Like i said, just what i mentioned above feels a little uncomforable tight? But the fitter and therapist told me there isn't any other stuff to try?

    Also i woke up in the middle of the night and my underarm around part that sticks out from your bra, was swollen. It feels like what i remember after having surgery. So i guess this is the lymphedema too. My therapist told me she would get me swell spots for my sports bra at night or a garment for night? But other then the mld again, nothing else to do for it? 

    Thanks again for all your help and advice.  I was so going to the the fitter on wed, and she had a pt. to see this morning, and surprised me by coming into my therapy appt. I think she was afraid to see me alone again and wanted my therapist to be there! 

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    Ericamary, compression garments aren't really comfortable at first--most people wear them for an hour or so, then take them off and see how their hand and arm are doing. They work up to wearing them more.

    Compression class 1 is the lowest therapeutic compression, it's usually 20-30mm, and a standard place to start for arm swelling.

    And, if things are in control, they may be able to wear them less.

    I find compression garments tight, but not painful.

    I do like the medi 95 material. The mediven glove is kind of bulky to me. Also the medi 95 has full compression in the fingers, while the mediven has half finger compression.

    There are loads more things you could try--they never tried a juzo off the shelf on you. And there are other brands.

    I like the medi 95 gloves, and measure kind of between a II or a III, and found the larger size felt more comfortable for me.

    It's not uncommon for the elbow to be an area of discomfort or chafing in a sleeve--some custom sleeves come with an elbow bend sewn into them. Some people dust the area with cornstarch if it chafes.

    I'd advise working up to wearing it more, and checking to see what the compression does to your arm and hand.

    So, it sounds like you're getting some axillary swelling--not at all unusual. A swell spot is a good approach to it.

    Here's some information on truncal swelling:

    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/breast_chest_trunckal_lymphedema.htm

    Boy, think how much you've learned--and not an education you ever wanted to have, but you're getting the tools to get this under control, so it takes the right place in your life.

    Are you going to see the therapist back for the swell spots/night garment?

    Kira

  • KS1
    KS1 Member Posts: 632
    edited July 2012

    Ericamary ... so glad that the mediven's are better, but your therapists are wrong.   there are many other options out there.  A lot of people like the medi 95 glove better than the mediven.  I had a custom mediven and an off the shelf medi 95.  The medi 95 was much sleaker, and easier to move in.  Unfortunately, I am between sizes in the medi 95, so it didn't work for me.  Of the off-the-shelf gloves, my favorite is the Farrow.  For custom, my favorite is the Juzo expert (silver).  My least favorite is the Jobst.  KS1

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited July 2012

    Erica and I have been PM'ing, but I wanted to post a suggestion I made to her as she tries to get some quality care and LE management, and that's to try the Lebed exercises.  For those who are LE newbies, the Lebeds are a series of slow tai chi-like movements, but done in a specific sequence to open lymphatic channels and encourage the movement of lymphatic movement.  The videos on the DVD will never win any prizes for production values, but the are clear and easy to follow.  I try to do the basic 15 minute opening sequence daily, and it really helps, especially with the truncal LE.  If I get lazy or distracted and don't do them for a week or so, I can really tell the difference.

    (Erica - Vicki at Shady Grove had a bunch of the DVDs, so if you go back there, ask about them - they should be able to either give you one or sell it to you at a cheaper cost.)

    This is the website for the Lebeds:  http://www.gohealthysteps.com/ There are a lot of DVDs and stuff - the one my LE therapist gave me is the one called "The Lebed Method Focus on Healing Through Therapeutic Exercise and Movement DVD".  I think someone posted some links to You Tube uploads showing the Lebeds as well - sneaking this in at work so I can't take the time to google it now.  

  • Nitocris
    Nitocris Member Posts: 187
    edited July 2012

    Ericamary,

    Last year , I posted the following links for the Lebed videos which were available on Youtube.  If you want to have a look at them before you order the DVD, it will give you an idea of the program:Lebed Method Lymphatic Opening - Part I to XII.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2luK4...  (part I)

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6f7N8... (part II)

     

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zPTmj... (part III)www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv0-ve... (part IV)www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ-GJe... (part V)www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAtSPE... (part VI)www.youtube.com/watch?v=90h6NM... (part VII)www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjrNp7...  (part VIII)www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhfAIO... (part IX)www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAyS65... (part X)www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dp-hf... (part XI)www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IOwZe... (part XII)
  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    Again, thanks to all of you. I am just ready to give up, i fell my hands are bascially tied at the moment to get a better therapist. Tomorrow is my last day with her. Is this what a therapist does? She watches and helps me to the mld, 10min, and then massages for 15 min. and then basically wastes time measuring answering my questions etc.  I feel like it's been a waste.  SHE CLAIMS no one would have done anything different in my stage, no wrapping, no pumps. She assures me of this?? She has handed me a flyer with the MLD, and with the LEDbed exercises on it. Plus give me a flyer with upper body weight exercises. She claims i am making too big of deal of my little problem.  Also, it is a Medivan 95 sleeve and glove, didn't realize there was a differnce. I actually can't stand the fitter, but i am trying my hardest to be nice. She already charged me and put the credit card thur. She told me that if this glove didn't work there wasn't anything else she had to do for me!! It seems ok, my only concern, is my therapist is so wishy washy, i don't know if the sleeve is long enough. I measured my arm and the it seems ok, but i am still confused how far the sleeve should go up?  The pictures i have seen are deceiving. I now each sleeve is different. They gave me the standard. My therapist says it doesn't MATTER?  She says so people don't like it all the way up under the arm pit?  Mine barely goes there but have to pull it and she told me not to? I don't think your arm flab should hang over???  

    The fitter i am currently seeing will not be there in 6 months when/if i go back to be fitted. I don't get any straight answers from anyone. But next to me today was a man, seeing a different fitter. She seemed so nice, i was listening to her talk to the person next to me though the curtain.  WHAT A HUGE DIFFERENCE.   First they tell me there is a fitter only 1 day a week, now there is one there everyday?? I am ready to give up. 

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    Mary also told me she had pumping and wrapping at stage 1. SHE is so lucky to have had such a wonderful therapist.  Is this typical? My therapist says they will not let her do that at stage 1 at the place i am going. It makes no sense to me that they wait until you get worse?

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    I JUST looked at the pictures you previously gave me link for that shows what a glove and sleeve look like.  Mine looks like the sleeve that is too short on the link. It doesn't go up as high. The glove also has a wrinkle in it?  The Therapist says it can't be helped?  I am ready to pull my hair out!!!!  Anyway, i just emailed the fitter, and told her all seems to be working out, but i really think i need the longer glove and i would like to have her bring it to our appt. on thurs. She is also bring me swell spots.  What do i do if she will not do this?  She purposely came to a therpy session so my therapist could see them on me and they both agreed it was fine. My therapist says it doesn't matter that the glove isn't longer, some people like them that way. THat was her answer to me. I am so depressed. I just don't know what to do? I am afraid the fitter will not show up, she has already stood me up once before and  think i am going to have a fight on my ends to get reimbursed. I know the fitter is going to tell me that the therapist says it fits and might not help me. It is so obvious she just wants to be done with me. Meanwhile, a month later, i am worse and no glove and sleeve. This really sucks. DOES she have to return the glove for me?  I am bringing her a picture from the website how a glove should and should not fit to prove it to the fitter. 

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited July 2012

    Just to clarify one point in Erica's post - my LE therapist didn't use a machine during my sessions, but she was wondeful in working with Flexitouch and the ins co to get me approved for a Flexitouch machine to use at home.  Yes, I am lucky - I was going to the same place that Erica is going to now, and my experience was 180 degrees different.  Shows that it's really the therapist and not the facility, doesn't it? Yes, my LE therapist was very aggressive in teaching me LE management techniques despite the fact that I have only Stage I LE - my therapist recognized that if she could teach me to manage it now, I had a much better chance of staying at Stage I and not progressing to later stage LE. 

  • Ericamary
    Ericamary Member Posts: 44
    edited July 2012

    Just one more question for you experts:
    I just read that the European compression classes are different then the US. SO i guess that means the Medven gloves?  I was given a class I: 18-21 mm

                                                          US class 0: 15-20mm - used for those at risk

                                                          Us class 1: 20-30 - early or mild lympha. 

    so i guess that means that I probably wasn't given enough compression since i am stage 1?

    What do you think about that? I think i was given this cause i complained about being in pain from the compression, which i truly was with the first glove i was given to try.  

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