New Lymphatic Self-Massage video

Options
Nitocris
Nitocris Member Posts: 187
edited June 2014 in Lymphedema

Hello ladies,

Just found this new video from Australia (16mn). Live demonstration of self-massage, recap diagrams and tips at the end.  So far, the most complete video I have found on the subject.  I liked the use of a "duster" to assist the self-massage.  I tried dry brushing before, but it was not very practical and finding a brush that was soft enough was difficult.

Of course, this massage is adapted to Jillian's case and everyone has to adapt it to her own situation.  Sequence of massage, explanations, tips... seem alright. 

Binney, Kira, what do you think? 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SnayHG-AaQ&feature=related 

· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    Nitocris, I think it's another good reference to have in our arsenal, but here are my concerns:

    1) She's standing--we usually recommend doing it laying down, or at least sitting

    2) Much of the techniques were not captured on the video: like how to pump the groin

    3) The neck clearing was done with just one/two fingers, and you ideally should use the whole hand

    4) The arm, below the elbow was never addressed: this seemed to be a "preventive" massage

    5) The only stroke was the sweep--that's okay--it's the easiest

    Good things: the recap, the fact they showed how to move fluid down, although she didn't really highlight that you move it down near the groin (not seen), then open up the "watershed" and then establish the "axillo-inguinal" anastomosis. I liked the towel, not so sure about the duster--was it really moving skin?

    Abdominal work wasn't included.

    So, I think if you use this along with the Northwest LE self care videos which address abdominal work, a better job on neck clearance, a whole lot more on lymphatic anatomy, we're starting to get there

    http://www.nwlymphedemacenter.org/

    So, I personally like the Northwest LE center self care videos better, but they're long and this is just 16 minutes.

    Where and how do you come up with these amazing references???

    Kira

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    Here are some illustrations of the clearance pathways:

    1) the pathways for arm LE on one side--it's not really clear what the sequence is, but it's bilateral neck, then the axillas, then across the chest, then down to the same side inguinals, then the back, and of course, no illustration of the arm, which occurs when you lay on your back again

    2) The abdominal work

    3) Neck clearance

    Photobucket" mce_src=""alt="" border="" hspace="" vspace="" width="" height=""

    align="" />

    Photobucket" mce_src="" alt="" border="" hspace="" vspace="" width="" height="" align="" />

    " mce_src="" alt="" border="" hspace="" vspace="" width="" height="" align="" />

    Photobucket" mce_src="" alt="" border="" hspace="" vspace="" width="" height="" align="" />

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Nitocris
    Nitocris Member Posts: 187
    edited July 2012

    Hi Kira,

    Thanks for your comments.  Great that you reviewed it and found the weak spots.  As you said, this video could be added to our arsenal as a complement to the existing ones.

    Obvioulsy, they had the camera on a tripod and this did not allow a good view of the inguinal area.... too bad.  Even though, it is incomplete, it is a good attempt and can be helpful for women looking for audio/visual material regarding self-massage. I went shopping a while ago and bought a duster to try.  As you said, I don't know if it moves the skin, but the good thing is that you can't press or push too hard with it. As Binney says  "be gentle"...   As far as the "finger-like" material is concerned, it seems to be more fun than real efficiency.  I'll let you know if it works.

    As far as finding the references, I just keep on looking for new things.  I pick up a topic and I google-search regularly to check if anything new on this particular topic has been posted.  This morning, I checked Lymphatic self-massage videos and found two videos.  The one which I posted and another one by a therapist called Heather.  Before posting the link, I wanted to check her web site and also compare her and Joe Zuther's exercises.  Her video is based on the Decongestive and Breathing exercises which he posted on his blog.  She follows exactly the exercises and the sequence in Joe's article (except that she did not include the "climb the ladder" exercise).  Another video for our arsenal?

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhHqTsz4vJI&feature=endscreen  - Heather - Decongestive exercises for LE

     http://www.lymphedemablog.com/2011/01/06/decongestive-and-breathing-exercises-for-lymphedema/  - Joe Zuther's article

      Oh... just saw your second post.  Thanks for the illustrations.  One more tool. Smile

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GmaFoley
    GmaFoley Member Posts: 7,091
    edited July 2012

    Kira - Thank you so much for the visuals! That is what I need to remember what comes first.. I also found this video yesterday it seems to be ok - could you review it and say if this is a good one or not?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSD7j8mSVkM

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Nitocris
    Nitocris Member Posts: 187
    edited July 2012

    GmaFoley,

    Kira and our experts will certainly add on to this, but I have found a few things:

    1.  The therapist is not mentioning deep breathing at all during the whole sequence

    2.  She is only using stationary circles and does not use sweeps

     3.  Even though, she is clearing the inguinal nodes, she is not draining toward that area. 

    4.  She drains the fluid toward one area only - opposite axillary - and does not clear that area at the end, by pumping the nodes again. (overfilling?)

    The SLD (simple lymphatic drainage) sequence seems alright:  i.e. clearing the neck, then the healthy side, then the LE side - moving proximal to distal on LE arm but part of the fluid could be also drained toward the lower abdomen (with prior clearance).

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited July 2012

    And if you've had bilateral surgeries (even prophylactic) both sides are at risk, so you don't move fluid toward the opposite axilla at all, but toward the groin or the neck nodes.

    Thanks, Nitocris!
    Binney

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Lee7
    Lee7 Member Posts: 657
    edited July 2012

    I'm going to the LE therapist right now and she had to take a day off so another LE therapist covered for her.  She did say everyone does the MLD a little differently, which I could see BUT she really did do it quite differently. No half circle strokes, just sweeping motions. She also taped me quite a bit differently than the other one does when she has taped my arm.  

    I get so confused. I would think there would be a preferred way to do this??? does it depend on where they train or something?

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited July 2012

    Lee, I recently took the Klose Training course to become a CLT, and we were taught to do 3 strokes: 1) stationary circles, 2) rotary slides and 3) pumps--I found the later two strokes very challenging, but the massage therapists in the class were great at them. Stationary circles, I "get" without much problem.

    Usually, the sweeps are something we do to ourselves with home MLD as it's a simple stroke. Some people teach a variation of it, called "pull-release"--where you place a flat hand, say on your arm, gently pull the skin to see a stretch, and then release it. You always should repeat a stroke 5-7 times.

    Confusing, right?

    Those second two strokes move fluid well across the back, down the side and on the lower parts of the limbs, and before I took the course, I wasn't all that comfortable with how I did stationary circles on myself, I wasn't releasing and letting the skin pull back.

    Something an experienced LE PT told me at the course, was that she was taught to do the strokes to the song from Fiddller on the Roof: "Sunrise/Sunset"--so to slow herself down, she'll sing the song. Works for me.

    My LE therapist is an LMT who is Klose and Vodder trained and whenever she takes a refresher course, a whole new array of techniques come into play--thumb circles, deep techniques. 

    Kira

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Lee7
    Lee7 Member Posts: 657
    edited July 2012

    Thanks Kira,

    I think I missed the part about pulling the skin and then releasing it but it makes sense. I'll try to remember to do that.  I also think , no , I know I do the MLD way too fast at home.  Its probably why my swelling got worse when it did.  So I'm going to try to slow it down. That song is a good idea! Smile

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Nitocris
    Nitocris Member Posts: 187
    edited July 2012

    I tried the duster as shown on the video and can't really say it works to move the skin. It is long with a short handle, thus making it difficult to apply equal pressure everywhere. The good thing is that you can bend it and it's easier to "sweep" the side of the body.  Material is soft and nice and can be used on both sides.

    Also tried two paint rollers (as suggested by Bonnie I think). That works pretty well.  The smaller one with the thicker foam works good on the back of the hand and the other one is good for triceps area and sweeping the whole arm very gently.

    Instead of the towel suggested in the video for moving lymph in  the back, I used a shower back scrubber with handles. (only the sponge side). Also tried a soft shower brush to dry brushing.  Don't like the brush too much; it is not soft enough and might cause skin irritation. 

    I took some pictures, but could not insert them in my post, so I have them in my dropbox with links.  Some areas are difficult to reach, so some of these "utensils" can help.  

      http://db.tt/KyuMdE6X

     http://db.tt/THViE7yW

    http://db.tt/LJMgVXcp

     http://db.tt/reUBaFA2

    http://db.tt/wm6YuJjs

    Ladies, if you have more ideas, just add on.   By the way, how do you get pictures inserted in a post?  I tried different ways, it just did not work.

    /Users/martinesarret-talvela/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2012/07/20/20120720-151818/P1020672.JPG

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ohio4me
    ohio4me Member Posts: 491
    edited July 2012

    You know....<pause,pause>more and more I wonder if I am even doing MLD correctly. My instructions have nothing about the abdomen. I first saw that on the Northwest videos. I'm going back to the Northwest videos next week while I recovery from surgery.

    My big quandry is whether the routine changes now that I will be bilateral MX. No axillary nodes being removed on left (not intentionally) but I'm sure I am at higher LE risk on left after surgery.

    ARgh...

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Categories