An Alternative approach to Stage IV Health and choices
Comments
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These are excellent links Zuvart and Heidi.
Heidi, I've been reading about this subject of cancer metabolism and diet since we discussed it in the early part of this thread. When you have the time, it's worth reading and then following up links and ideas in Wikipedia for the Reverse Warburg Effect, Warburg Effect, Warbug hypothesis, and best of all, Autophagic tumor stroma model of cancer. There's so much information in these articles to follow up, such as:
The autophagic tumor stroma model of cancer proposes that epithelial cancer cells use oxidative stress as a "weapon" to extract recycled nutrients from adjacent stromal fibroblasts (i.e., connective tissue cells).
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Thus, "The Reverse Warburg Effect" is a characteristic of a "lethal" tumor micro-environment. Importantly, researchers have shown, using a co-culture system, that a loss of stromal Cav-1 can be effectively prevented by treatment with anti-oxidants (such as N-acetyl cysteine (NAC); quercetin; and metformin), or with autophagy inhibitors (chloroquine). This is very promising as these drugs/supplements are now currently available off the shelf from health food stores, or are already FDA-approved drugs. All of these drugs have previously shown anti-tumor activity in pre-clinical models, however their mechanism of action was not attributed to "The Reverse Warburg Effect".
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Furthermore, ketones are the ideal fuel to be used during hypoxia, as they burn more efficiently and require less oxygen, to drive the production of ATP via oxidative mitochondrial metabolism.The prevailing view is that cancer cells have defective mitochondria, and undergo aerobic glycolysis (the Warburg effect). The new theory is based on observations that stromal fibroblasts are undergoing the Warburg effect, due to mitophagy (the autophagic destruction of mitochondria). Thus, the Warburg effect occurs in fibroblasts, and not in cancer cells---just the opposite of what most cancer researchers have argued over the last 85 years. This new model has been called the "Reverse Warburg Effect", to distinguish it from the conventional "Warburg Effect", which was thought to take place in cancer cells.
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In recent years, Warburg's hypothesis has re-gained attention due to several discoveries linking impaired mitochondrial function as well as impaired respiration to the growth, division and expansion of tumor cells. In a study by Michael Ristow and co-workers, colon cancer lines were modified to overexpress frataxin. The results of their work suggest that an increase in oxidative metabolism induced by mitochondrial frataxin may inhibit cancer growth in mammals.[8]
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Subsequent work has shown that the Warburg effect, indeed, might lead to a promising approach in the treatment of solid tumors. The chemical dichloroacetic acid (DCA), which promotes respiration and the activity of mitochondria, has been shown to kill cancer cells in vitro and in some animal models.
My bold to emphasise some relevant points. Sorry there's so much. A quick scan should show if you will find this relevant so you can decide whether to read further.
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Another thing that keeps jumping out at me lately is about Linoleic Acid.
Breast cancers get revved up by a kind of dietary fat called linoleic acid. Melatonin interacts with linoleic acid, so he gave melatonin to mice implanted with human breast cancers.
"This breast cancer rev-up mechanism gets revved down by melatonin,"... Blask and colleagues found that melatonin puts cancer cells to sleep, too.
Blask's team exposed lab mice with human breast cancers to constant light. Tumor growth skyrocketed."With constant light, tumors grow seven times faster and soak up incredible amounts of linoleic acid," he says. "During the day, the cancer cells are awake and linoleic acid stimulates their growth.
Thanks to MAUD for that great Melatonin link. I can't find the other link now that pointed out Linoleic Acid feeds cancer.
Linoleic Acid is an Omega 6 essential fatty acid so we need it to live, but maybe we can raise our Omega 3 intake and choose fats lower on this list.
Appendix: Dietary sources
Name % LASafflower oil 78%
Grape seed oil 73%
Poppyseed oil 70%
Sunflower oil 68%
Hemp oil 60%
Corn oil 59%
Wheat germ oil 55%
Cottonseed oil 54%
Soybean oil 51%
Walnut oil 51%
Sesame oil 45%
Rice bran oil 39%
Pistachio oil 32.7%
Peanut oil 32%
Almonds 24%
Canola oil 21%
Chicken fat 18-23%
Egg yolk 16%
Linseed oil 15%
Lard 10%
Olive oil 10%
Palm oil 10%
Cocoa butter 3%
Macadamia oil 2%
Butter 2% -
what about flaxseed oil jlw ? re budwig diet.
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That's Life, it has the good oil, Omega 3.
Flaxseed (or linseed) (Linum usitatissimum) and its oil are perhaps the most widely available botanical source of the n-3 fatty acid ALA. Flaxseed oil consists of approximately 55% ALA, which makes it six times richer than most fish oils in n-3 fatty acids.[77] A portion of this is converted by the body to EPA and DHA, though this may differ between men and women.[78]
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I should clarify. There is a little Linolec Acid (Omega 6) in Flaxseed oil, but it's far outweighed by the other good fatty acids.
Per 1 tbsp (14 g)
Calories: 124
Total fat: 14 g
Omega-3: 8 g
Omega-6: 2 g
Omega-9: 3 g -
THanks for a great post JoyLiesWith,
I know for a fact that my OMega 6 is much higher than Omega 3 and I really need to get that in balance! It is so hard to watch everything and try be alkaline or balanced all the time!
I have been using safflower oil and grapeseed oi to pop our organic popcorn in. Even though I have tried to be vegan, maybe I should just start using butter!!!
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We went to a local restaurant to eat this evening, and it was wonderful to see all the items that were marked gluten free on the menu. Really made it easy to make healthy choices. I had shrimp and grits only instead of grits it was polenta which to me tasted better.
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Thanks Smiley, I knew too much Omega 6 wasn't good for the heart and general health, but was shocked to find it feeds cancer.
Olive oil is good for salads. Coconut oil is good for cooking though it contains a different fat, no Omega 3 and only 4% Omega 6.
This is the best and easiest to understand explanation I've found so far of the effects of these fats.
How too much omega-6 and not enough omega-3 is making us sick In plain english, what this means is that the more omega-3 fat you eat, the less omega-6 will be available to the tissues to produce inflammation. Omega-6 is pro-inflammatory, while omega-3 is neutral. A diet with a lot of omega-6 and not much omega-3 will increase inflammation. A diet of a lot of omega-3 and not much omega-6 will reduce inflammation.
Death by vegetable oil
So what are the consequences to human health of an n-6:n-3 ratio that is up to 25 times higher than it should be?
The short answer is that elevated n-6 intakes are associated with an increase in all inflammatory diseases - which is to say virtually all diseases. The list includes (but isn't limited to):
cardiovascular disease
type 2 diabetes
obesity
metabolic syndrome
irritable bowel syndrome & inflammatory bowel disease
macular degeneration
rheumatoid arthritis
asthma
cancer
psychiatric disorders
autoimmune diseasesI'd like to add Alzheimer's disease to his list as the plaque in the brain is similar to that in atherosclerosis. Also Psoriasis, as this is not just a skin disease but causes inflammation in the aorta (heart), blood vessels, liver, tendons and joints, even when no symptoms are felt.
For those who prefer advice from a GP, here's an easy to understand explanation.
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How strange. The bottom of my message disappeared but is there when I click on EDIT.
This is the last part of my post.
I'd like to add Alzheimer's disease to his list as the plaque in the brain is similar to that in atherosclerosis. Also Psoriasis, as this is not just a skin disease but causes inflammation in the aorta (heart), blood vessels, liver, tendons and joints, even when no symptoms are felt.
For those who prefer advice from a doctor, here's an easy to understand explanation.
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Flaxseed oil was chossen by Dr. Budwig for this reason.
Here we use mostly flaxseed oil always refridgerated, organic first-pressed olive oil, the best coconut oil and raw uncultured butter.
I do have at times other oils for some recipes but they are seldom used, very very little.
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I have to say this about the sugar doses before chemo - perhaps taht is why there are doughnuts in the clinics? Someone I know going through chemo now goes home and eats half a pie after, perhaps she could do so before instead.
TEST RESULTS - just realized I have not come to this thread w the results.
Today i am freaking out.
Brain mri - good
cbc - seems fine
US - nothing in either axilla or breast even though the GP and onc said there was a mass 5x larger than the first mass in the affected side.
BUT, regardless of US in axilla....
PET/CT scan revealed two spots that seem active cancer. One is in right axilla where the first cancer lymph node and 10 others were removed during bc surgery, the ten clear. Now two seem cancer, one moreso, was a 9x out of 30. The other spot is a node on right side, neck by ear. Small and a questionable level at 4.5 out of 30. Biopsies were needed by onc to know what he would be treating.
I succumbed to core needle biopsies yesterday. Was sedated and drug for pain, so consciously dozing. The neck biopsy was easy enough for dr, used needle. The right, he tried needle. Then without asking me, telling me, nothing, he used a punch to biopsy. I was so out of it that I didn't even register what was happening or that I would not want it to be done and soon he used punch six times to get this one biopsy, enough substance from this little engorged node in my severe lymphedema arm that was marked LIMB ALERT and that is already two sizes larger than the other arm and always numb like a hunk of foot fallen asleep. It was not until I was on the way home that thelevity hit me, for both my arm and for exploding the node instead of not poking the bear. I would have preferred a surgery to remove node instead if a needle could ot be used.
Now I am supposed to wait until July 10 to even know if it is cancer. Really. Don't they just know yes or no within the hour, my DSIL's onc knew, not all details, but he knew it was a yes. Hubby called onc's office already this morn to get me in to see him, I have not been so freaked out once since this started, as to have the node punched open several times and now possibly cancer cells circulating all through me. I am blown away by the lack of thinking that goes on by the medical pros all along the way.
Last night DSIL said that these nodes could have been removed and checked since I would not have chemo anyway, they would be better off just removed, in her opinion and now I think about it, in mine too. But my onc had told me if the one on left is cancer then the cancer is moved to other side of body and it is now Stage IV, so there is no point of surgery or radiation anywhere at all, chemo only to save my life. Like I said, I want another onc. Don't know what to do, no matter where I go I get screwed with. Victim stamp on forehead it seems.
I chose to have biopsies to see if I am stage IV bcz I was told that if so I would stand the better chance of getting disability income through SS, but on ride home the attorney finally called me back and said I will not be able to collect at all with me owning my business which only brings in $75 ave / mo on autopilot. I have to sign it away or close it. Worked 20 yrs on this. Want to make it work, need the income to build for our retirement. But was told that even if I closed it, I would have to prove financial need to collect since I have not pd into SS - I was self-employed and needed 3 more credits before I lost my memory.
So, I went through the biopsies for nada, imo.
I am going to be treating myself for stage iv anyway, w or wo biopsies. Have been all along, taking this serious. But the disability was so I could afford to purchase the treatments I need to buy for myself. I have nowhere left to turn, nowhere.
Somebody talk me down, please. But be gentle, I am more fragile than I have been in my life.
example --- Yesterday the milkers or land owner of the organic dairy herd we partly own stuck a note on our jars saying the get confused when jars are not marked and to mark lids, jars, both ends of totes.... ours ARE all marked and very well. I cried then left a note saying they are marked. I felt devastated.
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Hi Diane, I don't usually post on stage IV threads nor read them, but felt compelled to respond to your post above. I don't know if there is a big difference between needle and core biopsies as far as possibility of spreading cancer if there is cancer which you don't know yet. Fear is the worst, not knowing comes second worst and waiting, well, hardly bearable. We all go through it, you are not alone. Nor are you alone with monetary concerns, I have HUGE ones. When my mind goes to all those places I stop everything, take deep breaths and repeat to myself 1000 times a day 'one day at a time, que sera sera, whatever will be, will be, the future is not ours to see, que sera sera' remember that song ? You were blessed with a new place that sounds like paradise, you have a precious husband by your side (not my case), you have children by your side and I am sure there are many many more blessings coming your way. Chin up girl and press on, bear hugs
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I really don't think eating sugar is going to have the same effect as IPT. Sugar has been shown to increase cancer cells' resistance to chemotherapy, increase inflammation, etc. I don't know - I realize that there is a lot that I don't understand, but I don't think eating doughnuts before chemo is a good idea.
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Hi Diane,
I understand the shock of thinking you may be stage IV. Take a deep breath and try (not easy) to concentrate on taking care of yourself while you wait on the path report. I am not familiar with your story but if you want another onc, is there a reason you can't find one? I switched oncs after my stage IV dx and am much happier. I am following a much more conventional path for tx but have tweaked my diet and take some supplements. I realize this is more difficult for you want use tx that are expensive. But don't lose hope and don't consider yourself a victim. I am doing very well, NED on my last two PET scans. I work out as often as possible, love my job (I teach first grade), my new granddaughter is the best medicine and even though I have gone a more conventional route, feel like I am a partner in my tx. Take deep breaths, take your time and try not to panic before you know for sure. Wishing you the best. Caryn
PS: no sweets or donuts where I am treated. They are very anti-sugar! -
sweetbean: Ditto that!
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hi diane, only on for a minute, but want to say, i know that feeling, fragile, crying if someone toots their horn at me...you will feel stronger soon, i promise, waiting is hell. but really good to have a clear brain scan. hang in there, you will know more soon x
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Diane: Praying that you will receive the best possible news on your dx. Whatever it is, I know that you have the tools at hand to deal with it in a sensible manner. Sending you lots of positive energy!
We're headed to WI for a week to visit family, so will be off the site...no access. I'll check in when I return.
Stay safe and happy everyone!
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Sstill waiting, but do havee appt w chiro who deals w cancer too. Thursday. He has wonderful tests taht show how cells aare accepting of tx, long before allopathic tests show improvement or decline, and he understands to treat the whole person. Coupled w the integrative md / pathologist where I get IVs my team is building.
Maud - fortunately, this thread is for all sstages, asking for input on alternatives for stage IV, so shaare please, you know so much tht helps us.
Thank you all, for sharingg. I am off leddge. LEs so bad today and don't fffeeel like fixng typss this time, usually i fix ea and every one, not tonight, hand and armm toooo swollen.
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Hi Diana, I don't blame you, I too would be very very angry if LE developed following a biopsy. Hopefully, this is all temporary and the swelling will resolve. If you can find Boswelia, it's a miracle worker. I got the tip from a stage IV lady with brain mets who takes it for pain. Diane, I have bursitis and torn tissue in my right shoulder because I'm overusing my right hand and arm. After MRI came back, the onc wanted to refer me to a rheumatologist for steroid injections - I said no thanks the Boswelia is working fine
as long as I take it, no pain ! Really worth getting high quality stuff. Also, you might be having neuropathy, holy basil is a miracle worker, I also take it for 'the feeling down moments' and better sleepSoooo glad you're seeing a chiro, hoping he's the guy/gal you're looking for - let us know how it goes
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Sharing
Found info on two more important anti-cancer friends, the list is endless Piceatannol has been found in various plants, including grapes, passion fruit, white tea, and Japanese knotweed. Besides antioxidative effects, piceatannol exhibits potential anticancer properties as suggested by its ability to suppress proliferation of a wide variety of tumor cells, including leukemia, lymphoma; cancers of the breast, prostate, colon and melanoma
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22108298
Piceatannol is an anti-inflammatory, immunomodulatory, and anti-proliferative stilbene that has been shown to interfere with the cytokine signaling pathway
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/169/11/6490.abstract
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Salvestrols are the plant's defence against fungal pathogens. Plants that do not go into stress from pathogens do not produce salvestrols. The implication being that our monoculture approach to growing limits the salvestrol levels of the food in our diet.
Salvestrols are a new class of natural compounds that have a pharmacological definition rather than a chemical definition. They are defined by the action of the metabolites produced when they are metabolised by the CYP1B1 enzyme in cancer cells. Simply put, salvestrols are food-based compounds that are metabolised by CYP1B1 to produce metabolites that are anticancer agents. These anticancer agents suppress tumour growth by killing the cancer cells. Salvestrols provide an explanation of the link between diet and cancer and between fruit and vegetable consumption and lower cancer incidence
http://www.pdazzler.com/wp-content/pdf/salvestrol-rr.pdf
GREEN & RED DIET - SALVESTROLS
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thanks maud
do you know i was eating 3 to 5 passionfruits a day a few months ago, was craving them..i think the body knows.Wanted to add this recent link, though i think you can find it in trials forum too.
Breast Cancer Survival Rises With Cruciferous Vegetable Intake
Published Online: Monday, July 2, 2012
Breast cancer survival improved significantly in patients who increased consumption of cruciferous vegetables following diagnosis, a study of Chinese women showed.
During a median follow-up of 5.3 years, cruciferous vegetable consumption had a dose-dependent impact on the hazard rate for overall mortality, breast cancer-specific mortality, and non-breast cancer mortality. The magnitude of the risk reduction ranged as high as 58%."Women who consumed large quantities of cruciferous vegetables tended to be younger and healthier, but after controlling for those differences and a variety of other factors, the vegetable consumption remained significantly associated with survival," said Sarah Nechuta, PhD, MPH, an epidemiologist at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, Tennessee, who presented the data at the 2012 AACR Annual Meeting.
Metabolites of cruciferous vegetables (eg, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, greens) include several bioactive substances shown to have anticancer properties. Examples include indoles and isothiocyanates. While studies have shown that increased consumption of the vegetables is associated with a reduced risk of developing breast cancer, limited information exists regarding the influence on cancer recurrence, progression, and survival.
Nechuta and colleagues in Shanghai examined the association between cruciferous vegetable consumption and outcomes in breast cancer survivors. Data for the analysis came from the Shanghai Breast Cancer Survival Study, a cohort study involving almost 5000 women with stages I-IV breast cancer.
The final analysis comprised 4886 women aged 20-75 years. All study participants enrolled within 6 months of breast cancer diagnosis.
Investigators assessed consumption of cruciferous vegetables (g/day) at baseline and after 18 and 36 months. Information was collected by means of in-person interviews and medical records. The primary outcomes were breast cancer recurrence, cancer-specific mortality, and total mortality.
The analysis occurred after 707 study participants had died, including 562 breast cancer- related deaths. The average daily consumption of cruciferous vegetables increased from 62.5 g at baseline to 102.1 g at 18 months and 133.8 g at 36 months.
Investigators stratified the study population into quintiles of cruciferous vegetable intake and compared outcomes, using the lowest quintile of consumption as the reference. At 36 months after diagnosis, the mortality hazard ratio ranged from 0.74 for women in the second quintile to 0.42 in the fifth quintile. Each difference was statistically significant from the reference group, as was the trend analysis (P <.01).
The analysis showed a similar pattern for breast cancer-specific mortality, ranging from 0.92 to 0.58. Only the two highest quintiles were significantly different from the reference group. The overall trend remained significant (P <.01).
Analysis of non-breast cancer mortality yielded a 55% reduction in the hazard ratio among women in the fifth versus first quintile of cruciferous vegetable consumption.
With respect to breast cancer recurrence, only the third quintile differed significantly from the reference, but the hazard ratio was lower in all four of the higher quintiles. The trend also favored increased consumption of cruciferous vegetables (P = .04).
Nechuta and colleagues offered several caveats about extrapolating the data to North American women. Consumption of cruciferous vegetables is much higher among Chinese women. Moreover, the types of cruciferous vegetables commonly consumed in China differ from those favored in the United States. Levels of bioactive compounds are influenced by the amount and type of cruciferous vegetables consumed.
Finally, host/genetic factors might also influence the metabolism of cruciferous vegetables and the effects of the bioactive compounds.
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Yes, the choices there are bok choy, greens, turnips, even brussel sprouts. A good cruciferous veggie soup that is not cooked to death and eaten the same day is best. Here we choose broccoli, cabbage most. My new soups are the bok choy, greens, turnips, onions, tomatoes. I love this staple in the fridge.
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crossposting own post for those wondering if I have tested for cancer or not. The answer is yes, still there or there again in right axilla, two nodes. The left neck node is negative, an infection.
Good news..... today went to new doctor, the chiropractor. I can work with him, he is informative, talkative, tells all he knows. Passion is holistic, we are on same page. He is the opposite from my integrative md who is quiet, well-informed to a date, then he seemed to stop reading so I have to bring him along but he researches and adds to his protocols but passionate just the same as chiro. They offer different tx, and the chiro offers noninvasive testing critical to knowledge of what is working.
After initial exam and the BIA analysis, I took home the new liver detox medical food I will be using for the next month or so, 2 weeks as a fast. Metagenics. UltraClear plus pH. I am to start slow, then go to the fast. We will then be looking for allergies as I readd foods. I'm game. If my body is too toxic the immune system will just spin even with the new drugs or supplements for the immune system to work at its best. So I detox.
SECOND DOCTOR OF DAY - went to the oncologist. Not so good. I basically cannot stand this man, his colleaguues, the 'clinic' which is like a grand spa with their money well spent on decor and spaciousness, all that insurance money and Medicare monies with no where to go?
Onc said I have cancer in right axilla. This is where 1 positive node and 10 neg were removed Nov 2011. I think it is residual cancer cells from then, and I ask why could not the same preps have been made for that surgery as now, so they would have known.
He says he can CURE this for me if I follow his protocol. Yes, he used that word.
1) surgery. 2) radiation. 3) tests would reveal if I am to respond to chemo. 4) chemo, if applies. 5) Arimadix for 5 yrs.
We all know, those who know me.... I have the answers I was seeking from the onc depart. I knew something was wrong. I also know that in the last three weeks I have been better than I was so I have done something that improved me yet again.
Now to ponder surgery or not and where to find a bs spec w a laser or similar, the less on this LE arm the better. But the rest, no thanks. I will probably go w the UVB blood therapy then 714X the most, plus the chiro's recommendations. But surgery, I don't know.
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You're welcome ThatsLife
hum....never had passion fruit, don't even know what they look like Lol, will google. I know exactly what you mean - I have the same body 'yearnings' for mangos - one mango a day ! yummie yum, love them and the vit A How wise you are: THE BODY KNOWS
Sorry Essa about the cancer still there, you'll beat this beast !! Your new chiro sounds awasome !!
I just read your post, can't remember which one..., about the AMAS test, wow !! you're full of wonderful info !
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hum.....I'd let him fix my passion fruit any day....
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haha maud, thanks for the chuckle.. the purple passionfruit are very common here, havent seen the yellow one before. I just cut them in half, and scoop out the seed with a teaspoon using the passionfruit itself as a bowl. have done this since a kid. You can stir it through yoghurt, or put it over fruit. It is one of the best tasting fruits i know. So are lychees. they taste like the smell of expensive perfume. I learned to eat them in Tropical North Queensland, nothing better on a hot day, but they are expensive here in the south.
Dianeessa: 'curable' is a word to seriously contemplate. You may want to read up on oligometastatic BC, to get more info on minimal mets and treatment success rates. Good that they would test for chemo sensitivity. Wish i had that offered here. What is your oposition to hormonals? hope you are feeling ok
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that's life - I did some reading. I see that the point is to get it while you can, while in one place. I am trying to decide if RFA or cryoablatiion or simple surgery is first step. Have appt Wed w a dr in Ft Wayne that does RFA radiofrequency ablation, I know it CAN be done to lymph nodes but not all so often done. Ins seems to cover this so is better bet for me. Always thinking out of the box. Esp w LE after last surgery and now the new biopsy. The test is an ONCO test, I don't know much on that but I may not even be a candidate for chemo, though I do not choose chemo at all at this point. I will go w the injections and nebulizer for the lymph system - immune.
Am feeling all right right now. Was upset terribly, not about the cancer so much, but how I have been treated and the system I found myself in. I am opting out.
I feel like when they ripped apart this c ancer node they blew up the gernade inside me and did not care. That upsets me. If the bear had not been poked, I would be on a calm but am not now.
The hormonals, I read the threads on bco and other sites and decided not to do drugs, I don't do much rx anyway, the metformin for cancer and the thyroid rx which I am deemed to be off soon.
Thanks for asking. Nite.
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Wow Australia sounds really exotic and I can see the ocean in the background on your pic, you lucky Gal !
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My ND just found out that if we drink coffee before any of our scans it helps protect our healthy cells from the radiation. Yippee!
Any excuse to drink coffee is good for me!
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Good point. The trouble is for the PET scan, they ask me only drink plain water 6 hours before scan. May I drink coffee? I should remember to ask at next scan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISBKscT3-90
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