Seattle P&R allows BMx woman to swim topless

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Seattle P&R allows BMx woman to swim topless
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  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited June 2012

    From dressager's link above here's an interesting paragraph for anyone feeling that those who choose not to reconstruct are a small group (just not true):

    “Approximately 4,500 women in Washington State will be diagnosed with breast cancer this year, according to the National Cancer Institute, and roughly half of those women – or 2,250 – will have mastectomies. Of those women, only 37 percent will decide to have reconstructive surgery, according to a 2008 study from the American Association of Plastic Surgeons. Which means thousands of women each year are adjusting to living without breasts and learning to love their new altered bodies.” 

  • crystalphm
    crystalphm Member Posts: 1,138
    edited June 2012

    I am fascinated by this because I had relentless pain after my first mastectomy. 2 years later, the pain is calm enough where I can wear a Still You cami...so I felt validated that another woman felt this same terrible pain. It is not "just me".

    Anyway, I love that there are such brave people pushing the limits, but it isn't for me. I would react glad that another person can express their freedom, to each their own. But then again, I covered up more than I needed to even when I had boobs....

  • Sassa
    Sassa Member Posts: 1,588
    edited June 2012

    I love the line that the decision was made to only allow her to swim in adult time to "protect the children."

    What exactly are the children being protected from?  Do they require men that have had cardiac surgery that left a huge scar on their chest (or any other type of scars from other surgeries or trauma) to wear a tee shirt to "protect the children."

    A BMX patient is not exposing breasts (or the nipples which usually is the definition of indecent exposure).  Why do they have to ask any permission to swim topless?

  • debbie6122
    debbie6122 Member Posts: 5,161
    edited June 2012

    I applaud her for doing this, although i would not feel comfortable w/o a top on in public i still don't like my DH looking at me so know i would not let others see me as well. I don't find my scars ugly at all its just not who I am. But i say, good for her.

  • riley702
    riley702 Member Posts: 1,600
    edited June 2012

    The reason I wouldn't do it is the belly I "picked up" during chemo and then Tamoxifen. Then again, pot-bellied guys have no shame, so maybe I shouldn't, either.

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    I'm going to comment on this just because everyone in my household happened to be watching the news when we saw this report and the comments started flying.  Albeit an unpopular opinion by the sounds of things, I can't believe they gave this woman the right to swim topless in a public pool. First of all, I can't really relate, I only had a lumpectomy, a large one, which left me rather deformed, but only a lumpectomy just the same, so I guess you can argue I don't know what I'm talking about. We live in a civilized society...clothes are not an option (unless you happen to live in nudist colony), I think this is a selfish request on her part. I don't get the point of making everyone else uncomfortable so she doesn't have to be. My best friend since high school had to have a cancerous testicle removed....he happened to be a daily swimmer. I know he didn't feel the need to go without trunks just to get in the pool. He just didn't go until he completely healed. How ridiculous it would have been if this thought had even crossed his mind. I get she's in pain and can't wear any sort of bathing top that touches her scars but what's stopping her from throwing a t-shirt over herself? Everyone in a family knows how deforming breast cancer is...that doesn't mean we have to stick it in someone's face, make them completely uncomfortable, just to make a point. The same way I wouldn't have whipped it out without covering myself when I was breastfeeding in public. It's a matter of morals and respect for others. If you want to make your point, there's other ways of doing it....show it on the news, post your pictures on the internet if you're so inclined, but I find it very selfish and disrespectful that she chose a public pool to make her point. Even my youngest son, who's no where near fully cooked yet, told me he discussed this news story with his friends downstairs after they saw the news story. You know how teen boys can talk. I was so proud of him when I overheard him say having a girlfriend without breasts wouldn't bother him because a man isn't much of a man if he lets that get in the way. This from the son of a woman who's never gone "topless", just so the rest of the world can "see" what it's like. Completely the wrong decision on the part of P&R. By foolishly making your point in a public pool, I feels she has just hurt our cause, and herself in the process. But in the end, to each his own. I suppose it's everyone's right to do what they want to do. I had trouble explaining her actions to my kids, but I certainly didn't have to explain the horrors of being disfigured by breast cancer and handling it with some dignity. 

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    gracie, if someone is missing a limb other than a breast, should we keep that person from discomfiting others out in public as well?

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    No, and I don't understand how the two can be compared. But like I said above, whatever floats your boat. I guess if you look at it that way, my friend should have been allowed naked in a public pool too. I'm glad it never occurred to him to ask.

    Edited for clarity.

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited June 2012

    Yep, to each his own.  I wouldn't be brave enough to do it but then again I have little "booblets" left.  The woman in the story appeared to be nicely flat and didn't look more upsetting to me than a man in swim trunks.  In fact she looked "nicer" than many men in swim trunks.

    I like the part in one of the articles where they asked somebody in charge of the recreation program in Austin, Texas if they would allow a woman to swim topless after bilateral mastectomy and they said well yes because it's legal for anybody to swim topless in Austin.  That kind of cracked me up.  I didn't know it was legal anywhere in the US. 

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    I didn't know it was legal either. Huh...I just learned something new.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    IT has nothing to do with a missing testicle. Your friend still had another testicle down there, a penis and a rear end.



    This woman has a scar. Period. Why is her scar different from the scar after heart surgery, for example?

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    It isn't. Breasts or not, I choose to cover my upper half. If she doesn't want to, her choice. Not my thing to expose my private parts (whether still there or not) in public.

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    Momine, I guess I'm just an old-fashioned girl. I still expect the men in my life to open car doors for me, allow me to be the first through a door, etc., so it's just something I wouldn't ever consider. It's only MY opinion on the issue.

  • Mardibra
    Mardibra Member Posts: 1,111
    edited June 2012

    I'm with you Gracie. Stuff happens to people all the time. But, most people don't ask the world to adjust for them. It isn't all about you (them)! I have a nice big scar across my chest and wouldn't dream of asking others to accommodate me. Rather, I will do my best to accommodate them. It's called selflessness.

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    Mardibra, thanks for saying what I couldn't seem to get across with all my blabbering. Foot in mouth 

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    gracie, nobody is askibg you to go topless. But surely you can see that the idea of covering private parts that are no longer there makes little sense.

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited June 2012

    Momine, I don't get it either but I think this is just one of those things that people will have to agree to disagree on.  I'm pretty laid back about this stuff, and while I wouldn't be comfortable going topless I also don't worry too much about somebody catching sight of my scars.  If I bend over and somebody sees something, just what are they seeing really?!  But people have all different levels of comfort with their bodies and with the human body in general.  I also don't see my scars as "deforming" so there's another difference because many people do feel deformed after mastectomies.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    I completely agree with you river rat. I doubt I would want to go topless myself, but there is a big difference between not wanting it yourself and then telling others they shouldn't do it either.

  • Mardibra
    Mardibra Member Posts: 1,111
    edited June 2012

    Maybe it shouldn't, but it will make other people uncomfortable. So, for that reason I wouldn't choose to do it.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    Yes, I understand, but what about other amputees? Should they also hide or disguise their amputations?

    For the record, I wear foobs and I doubt I would go topless, but having followed the discussion about this woman on a couple of different boards, I am beginning to think that it really should not be her problem if other people are uncomfortable with her scars.

    People seem to get much more emotional about this than they would be about a missing leg or whatever. 

  • Mardibra
    Mardibra Member Posts: 1,111
    edited June 2012

    I hear ya on the other amputees thing...they can swim without their arm or whatever, to their hearts content. I think most people would agree. However there is something about a woman without breasts that is different. I'm not saying it should be, it just is.

  • dreaming
    dreaming Member Posts: 473
    edited June 2012

    I do not believe that everyday she leaves home naked from the waist up, this is opening a door to men and women that have surgery in their genitals and have pain and discomfort , they have also the right to go naked. Working with cancer patients, I know for some how difficult is to find the right underwear.

    I see her statement more a gender issue, she is wearing men trunks.

    Personally I chose who to can see my scars, they are mine not the whole world I do not need to rub people faces with them,I am a very private person and even at work many do not know I had breast cancer and mastectomy.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    Yes, judging from people's reactions to this, there is something different. But I am thinking that maybe we need to rethink those reactions.

    I can't think of any rational reason why it should be different. 

  • Mardibra
    Mardibra Member Posts: 1,111
    edited June 2012

    I don't think it is rational. But, It does produce shock and makes people uncomfortable. So, for that reason I would not do it. Why would I want to make people uncomfortable so I'm not inconvienced? I just think that is selfish....and maybe irrational!

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    I think it is a fine line.

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited June 2012

    I don't find it selfish nor irrational.  I find it empowering.  Men in Speedos make me uncomfortable, but my comfort shouldn't dictate their rights.

    And if a man had uncomfortable genitals from surgery I'd have no problem with him wearing a skirt.  I also don't have heart failure on the rare occassion that I notice a man is going commando in pants that might reveal more than I'd like to see.  I just look away.

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited June 2012

    Maybe I'm missing her point. Perhaps she's aiming for androgeny and is heavy into women's rights activism and all that other stuff..men don't have to cover their chests, why should I kind of thing. If so, all the power to her. I like being a girl and all that entails. Can't honestly say I've ever seen a women with breasts or without running around in public, except for my crazy neighbour who decided she had to trampoline in the nude. Yeah, I was offended, but thought hey, your yard...do whatever the hell you want. Her other neighbour, on the other hand did call the police because her children were watching her through the window.  I'm going to cover up my chest in public, unless of course I get to go to one of those lovely islands where everyone is running around topless, 'cos honestly, who needs the attention? It certainly wouldn't bother me then to show off my scars. It's not about the scars or the missing limbs (still unsure how that's the same as a breast)... it's about modesty and respect for one's self and others. Just my take on it.

    Ed spelling

  • coraleliz
    coraleliz Member Posts: 1,523
    edited June 2012

    I live in a California beach community. Sometimes we get tourists from Europe who go topless(with breasts). It's not legal but everyone seems to look the other way including the lifegaurds. I think the problem here is that she asked for permission. She should have just showed up at the pool & swam her laps. I doubt an 18-19yr old lifeguard would confront her. I'll have to ask a former lifegaurd friend of mine what she would have done.

    I swim laps & I had a BMX. Swimsuits are annoying in how they hit my chest but I don't have pain issues & feels sorry for this woman. I'm not bold enough or uncomfortable enough to pull this off. The P&R people seemed to have made the right decision in my opinion.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    My question would be why a missing breast is different than any other missing body part.

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