How can we make this truly safe, supportive, judgement-free?

First, I used the word goop because I couldn't remember the actual name. Salve...I stand corrected.



I think the alt forum stirs so much passion because it is just a bit too far left of center for most. Religion is accepted by many, conventional treatment is accepted by many because they are considered "normal". Black salve and other alt treatments (not all) are just a bit too far out there for many to jump on board. However, many want to check out the threads to see if there is something they may consider close to center. Unless and until they find something realistic to them...something not considered unproven...they will have a skeptical mind. If something strikes them as crazy, they will try and warn others because they come from a place of good. Does the good always come across as caring? No. But do they mean harm? I don't think so. Most gals who are alt proponents probably feel very defensive about their position because they are forced to defend it constantly. That defensiveness can come across as nasty retaliation. Like someone stated earlier, the "she called me stupid first" defense isn't a good one. A little civility on both sides can go a long way.



Just my two cents worth.

Seriously:

"I tried to read a Hulda Clark book once but it was really technical and way over my head.  If her methods work, then the parasite theory is a moot point.  After all, pain killing tablets still work regardless of whether we understand what exactly caused the pain"

I'm off to seek my fortune in being a commodities trader. Never mind that I don't have a head for math and education is for the elitist.  I have read the Secret and if I wish it hard enough it will become so.

I know it's been 3 weeks since I have posted but I have suffered depression because I failed at trading commodities.

My son took a class in critical thinking so I think that I will become an expert critical thinker on the boards and call everyone out on their logical fallicies.  Never mind good critical thinking skills take years to refine, I just wish it so and that makes it so.

I would fail a high school chem and bio quiz but I am going to act like an expert in diseases and cancer. I will state no diseases  are curable except for infections and I will make a bizarre list of diseases that are in fact curable such as diabetes and I will add catorgories like dermititis like it's one disease.

I will pretend that I flunked out of naturopathic and nursing school because they are elitist and I am a commoner.

Can you say tooth fairy science? Seriously, Hulda Clark was way over your head?

As long as you point out and compare the real and proven dangers of conventional treatment you so adamantly advocate for. My own onco would question your motives.

Himalaya is gone and probably ordering salve therapy as you speak. NOTHING you say to discourage anyone from the path they have chosen matters. You give yourselves way too much credit. 

Most readers on BCO come to the Alt forum AFTER reading the horror stories on the conventional boards.

ETA - plus you are overextending your welcome (see how polite I can be) and in direct contravention of the moderators' directives: 

We'd like to perhaps suggest that those members who really disagree with the use of alternative forms of treatment not participate in the discussions in this forum.  

Joy, in case you and eve haven't noticed, and you may not have, there can be just as much antagonism on other forums, yet mods don't have to delete posts and lock down threads. Check out "Denied Treatment for DCIS" to see what I mean. Passions, including my own, run very, very high there. I have been involved in a few heated discussions because my low Oncotype score dictated I not get chemo, despite two positive nodes. My point is that while other forums seem to deal with conflict and opposing opinions, it does not appear to be tolerated here. Again, just sayin'.

OK, but Joy, there are people, like me, who do use some alt things and is genuinely interested, but who ALSO questions, everything.

But questioning something in a genuine and civil way is quite different that throwing around inflammatory words ( mentally ill, high, quacks etc) or making demeaning sarcastic comments. It is the tone and level of civility which seems to steer things in a negative direction. I am a little frustrated at this point but badly want this thread and all other to truly be safe an supportive. Caryn

Exbrnxgrl, if you read the thread I referred to you will see the words "crazy" "playing russian roulette with your life" and accusations of the OP being a deadly influence on newbies. Of course I agree with all those sentiments, but my point is that the same kind of vitriol exists in other forums as noted here.

I think that Momine is dead on. Questioning everything: proposed treatments, conventional and alternative is the only autonomous, safe thing to do. Each of is responsible for making rational decisions about our own health care, as mothers, parents, care providers many of us are called upon to be substitute decision makers for members of our families who, because of age or mental incapacity, cannot make or express these decisions for themselves. It therefore behooves us to open our minds (even if we have to pry them open) to the world of possibilities out there. But, and this is a big but, we have to apply the same sort of rigourous questioning and inquiry to all possibilities. For alt therapies and conventional therapies we need to know the correct name, appropriate dosing, the possible means of action, expected side effects and less frequent ones... It is easy to find out about conventional therapies because they are what surround us. The alternative therapies need more seeking out. That is why I come to this discussion. To learn from those of you who have significant experience. If I ask questions am I being disrespectful or just doing my job as a well informed consumer?

Momine, again, it's all in the tone and manner

"Go with the flow. Don't sweat the small stuff. Everything is small stuff."

Written to remind myself as well as others! 

Momine, please stop trying to make your point that exploring or using alternative treatments has its basis only in belief, as prayer does. I only noted that prayer is considered complemenary treatment in cancer leaflets and information booklets. I understand what you are trying to imply, but i think we all believe our cancer therapies are going to work for us, or we wouldnt go through with them conventional or otherwise.  I think most of us look for evidence of efficacy with a treatment, and dont base our choices on belief only.

Re those who feel they cant 'ask questions' or 'warn' people: I would suggest that most people on the alt forum encourage and enjoy discussing the pros and cons of supps/therapies/diets etc. I trully believe it is the tone only, the sarcasm, the ridicule, and sometimes coldhearted comments that have caused this issue. Not the questions, not the need for evidence, not even the warnings, just the approach. 

Blackcat: you spoke of impositive's demise? has she passed away? i am always thinking of her, and wondering how she is, it is very sad if that is the case...