Anyone with DCIS had the Oncotype test?

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  • mnkid
    mnkid Member Posts: 33
    edited May 2012

    I'm waiting for the results of my Oncotype-DCIS test.  They should be in next week.  My surgeon ordered it.  In her opinion is is another piece of information to complement the Van Nuys prognostic index.  Any more information I can get before making a decision for future treatment is valuable to me. 

    I'm in quite a bit of suspense right now.  I'm preparing for a high score but hoping for something better. 

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited May 2012

    Infobabe...I was aware of the reply that your doctor's office gave you. That's why I said to you that you need to speak to your doctorS.  I mentioned that I thought this was more of an issue concerning your doctors' staffs, rather than the doctors.  And again, like I said earlier, it can't hurt to have several opinions from other physicians.

    The feeling I'm getting from reading your posts here and on other threads is that you are NOT being given enough information from your physicians FOR YOUR COMFORT ZONE.  Instead, you are coming here to these threads to find out information that you believe your physicians should be telling you in the first place.

    Furthermore, because you are new to this "world" and have never studied statistics (like most patients), and do NOT understand well the levels of proposed treatment  (again, like most patients), you are upset.  And THAT'S what needs to be addressed.

    I was very fortunate to be referred to, IMHO, excellent physicians.  My breast surgeon immediately ordered the Oncotype DX test for my invasive breast cancer and I had the results by the time I met with my MO.  Deciding on whether or not to have a lumpectomy or mastectomy, I thought was very easy because my surgeon said he could get excellent margins and a good cosmetic result.  He also mentioned that if I agreed to the lumpectomy, that I could choose between brachytherapy or whole breast radiation.  He did point out that it was the left side and that the RO would be mindful.  When I met with the RO, I was told brachytherapy was still considered "investigational" and was NOT the Standard of Care, but I was a good candidate for the procedure.  When I finally met with my MO, he already had my Oncotype DX report in front of him, thanks to the breast surgeon and he was then able to discuss with me my next level of care.  He CLEARLY went over with me what the Standard of Care was.  He discussed with me the NCCN breast cancer guidelines.  He asked if I wanted to participate in one of two clinical trials, The SOFT trial and/or TAILORX.  He then discussed with me all Standard of Care treatments as well as alternatives. 

    I was also given a sheet of paper with things to do to live a healthy lifestyle which I was told also contributes to lowering my future risk.  After reviewing the sheet with the MO, it was agreed that I could tear up the sheet because I was already doing EVERYTHING on the list BEFORE my diagnosis.  Pretty frustrating that there wasn't anything that I could do more....

    So you see Infobabe, I think your issue is one of communication.  You are enlightening yourself with information here that should have been spelled out to you by your physicians.  They should have told you that you could have the Oncotype DX test for DCIS.  They should have added that it is STILL investigational for DCIS and hasn't been recommended yet in the NCCN guidelines.  They should have told you that many women over the age of 70 with very favorable prognostics MIGHT defer radiation altogether. And if they believe you are a candidate for radiation, they need to spell out why and give you the level of evidence.  This is information that THEY should have been informing you of.

    Sooo...my recommendation to you is to consult other physicians.  You don't need curt answers to your questions.  And IMHO, you shouldn't NEED to ask many questions if you are under the care of physicians and staffs who are doing their jobs well.  I distinctly recall that when my physicians asked me if I had any questions, I really had only one or two questions for them because they had done an EXCELLENT job of explaining most things to me.  Furthermore, when I now visit with my MO, I usually have only a post-it with a word or two on it for discussion.  And, most importantly, when there are published reports about BC that I think are relevant to me, I call my doctor's office and the Physician Assistant returns my call.  Likewise, I've been informed by my MO when I need to DIRECTLY contact him and in those few situations, he has returned my calls as well.

    That's the kind of care that I am accustomed to and receive.  Seems like you have your work cut out for you!

    Good luck.

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited May 2012

    voraciousreader

    You are probably right about trying to get informed on this site.  Before, my diognosis I knew absolutly nothing.

    I laugh when I see reference to "my team."  My team plays different games by different rules and I doubt ever speak to each other.  I asked my surgeon some questions and she says that is the job of the onclogist.  When I was set up for Mannosite my RO was very forth coming and we did talk a lot.  But in those early days I didn't know what questions to ask.  Now I do. I turned out to be not a candidate for Mammosite and the fake balloon was removed.  He did mention 5 or 3 weeks of rads but that was the last convesation.

    I have always been on the fence about a mastectomy.  At least I could forego rads.

    I am going to try to get an appt.with my MO on Tuesday.  I might find it easier getting the Oncotype there.  No one has ever mentioned the Van Nyes either.  I would not base my opinion solely on either of those but I would like to know.  It would calm my mind not worrying about later events if I do the standard of care and also have a low Oncotype.  If I have a high one, I would be more willing to get going.

    I think our Breast Cancer Center here needs a patient advocate that is assigned to us for the duration.  Help with the scheduling of appointments.  Emergency numbers for last minute events (such as I had with a sudden date with the oral surgeon 10 hours before the lumpectomy.)  And also discuss and explain treatment going forward.  If they did not know, ferret out the answer.

    I get the general impression that treatment for breast cancer here is adequate, but not steller.  Steller would be The Univesity of Michigan.  That is a daunting place to go like a big factory with lots of papers just to get an appointment.  It is also an hour and a half away. 

    So thats where I am today.  I will be glad when it is all over sometime in late July.  But are we ever really over it? 

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited May 2012

    Infobabe...The decision making process, following diagnosis, is the most stressful time.  I promise, once you decide what treatment plan to follow, and after completion of active treatment, you will feel better.

    Furthermore, I don't think you need to travel an hour and a half away to The University of Michigan to get good care.  There are terrific physicians EVERYWHERE!  My 87 year old, retired nurse, mother tells me that I get great care for my family and me because I have my doctors "trained."  That's NOT true.  I just seek out physicians who give me the level of care that I expect to receive.  That also goes for their staffs as well. If I'm not happy, then I move on.  I will NEVER accept the level of care that some people accept as being "normal." 

    Again, good luck to you.  Thoughts and prayers to you.

  • JamieB86
    JamieB86 Member Posts: 397
    edited May 2012

    Infobabe - I'm sorry your "team" isn't functioning as such.  The more I read about others' experiences, the luckier I feel.  My BS is actually a BCO adviser.  He has and continues to develop his team around him, something that both my PS and OB/GYN mentioned at different times. He has a "breast health coordinator" to help patients through the treatment maze.  She even held my hand when I had the dye injected for SNB mapping. She is a treasure.

    If you have he option to go elsewhere, maybe you should.  I know how daunting a prospect that must be.  Wish you were in PA and you could see my doctors.

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited May 2012

    JamieB86

    I want to go to there.  (Tina Fey)

    Seriously. that is what we need here.  Where do you live? 

  • JamieB86
    JamieB86 Member Posts: 397
    edited May 2012

    I'm in Pennsylvania. My doctors work out of Phoenixville Hospital.  About an hour outside of Philadelphia.

  • Neeners815
    Neeners815 Member Posts: 358
    edited May 2012

    I had the test.  Unfortunately, I had a high score.  It did make the decision-making much easier for me, though, as I was hesitant about having rads.  I was the first one from my breast center to have the samples sent out.

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited May 2012

    Neeners815 

    That is what I am hoping to hear, that you had the test and it played a role, not the only roll, in your decision.  I would feel the same with a high score and it would bring more certainty as I go forward.  Thanks.

  • mnkid
    mnkid Member Posts: 33
    edited May 2012

    I just got my results.  I'm smack dab in the "intermediate" score range.  My surgeon is recommending re-excision to get larger margins and then, I imagine, radiation.  I'm taking it all in and digesting all this means.  She's going to have her office send me a copy of the report.

    I wished for a more definitive answer but this is the one I got so I'll work with it.

  • LAstar
    LAstar Member Posts: 1,574
    edited May 2012

    I asked my BS about it but he doubted that I would not be recommeded to have radiation since my DCIS is grade 3.  I wasn't able to get clear margins, so it's no longer an issue for me.  I would think that you are a good candidate with grade 1 DCIS.

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited May 2012

    LAstar 

    So did your doctor think you would get radiation or not?  Not clear to me.

    Thanks 

  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited May 2012

    My onco score was 10.I did not need chemo.My S/N was positive so i had to do the rads.

    I hear people complaining about the rads.Not true.Its not a walk in the park that some people think but it sure is doable.

    Good luck.

  • LAstar
    LAstar Member Posts: 1,574
    edited May 2012

    Infobabe, becasue of the involved margins, I will have to have MX so we currently do not plan for any radiation.  

  • mnkid
    mnkid Member Posts: 33
    edited May 2012

    My Oncotype-DCIS score was 48.  I'm scheduled for re-excision next week.  Hope I get those nice wide margins.  I won't really relax until that final pathology report is a-ok.  I'm not too worried about the radiation.  It's a long haul but most folks I know who've had it have had few to no problems with it.  It's just time consuming. 

    It was very helpful to have that extra information to plan my course of care. 

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited May 2012

    mnkid

    I hope you get those wide margins too.  It is such a long haul.  This is the information I want though, as I see my MO this afternoon and I feel better prepared to ask the questions.  Thanks. 

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited May 2012

    I saw my MO today.  She won't do an Oncotype.  She said a couple of things thatI don't believe are true.  She said the Oncotype was done on persons taking Tomoxifen.  I think the test is done with the first path long before Tomoxifen. And she said my insurance will probably will not pay for it.  I don't know if they will or not but I will be checking tomorrow.  I know the women on my Oncotype board are saying their insurance did pay for DCIS.  I chose not to argue with the doctor.

    However, she recommends the 5 weeks of rads and Tomoxifen after.  She is not ademate on the Tomoxifen because it will reduce my chances of more cancer from 5% to 2.5%, negligible.  But it will protect my other breast since I have already demostrated I can produce this type of cancer and that breast will have been untreated.  She urges an honest try and I will.  I have a freind who was on it and no side effects.  Overall, I think the doctors see my case as not a big deal.  My regular Dr. said it is just a bump in the road and in a year, I will forget about it.  So it's all good.

    I undestand that the Oncotype is not critical.  I would like to have it but it is an expensive test with not much diognostic value for me.  


  • lisagwa
    lisagwa Member Posts: 232
    edited June 2012

    I am trying to do my research and find that it is getting confusing as to which doctor to speak with. I was also told that I wouldn't need Oncotype test. I am thinking of making 2nd opinion onclogy appointment to confirm this. any thoughts?

  • BLinthedesert
    BLinthedesert Member Posts: 678
    edited June 2012

    Hi Lisa, I don't know how old you are, but with grade 3 ER-/PR- I think they are going to recommend you have radiation in any case ... and tamoxifin will not be recommended.  

    The Oncotype is a good start, but an unvalidated test (right now) for DCIS.  It is available, and some patients are asking for it, but in your case (high grade, estrogen-receptor negative) it is probably not as useful.  

  • Neeners815
    Neeners815 Member Posts: 358
    edited June 2012

    Infobabe - my surgeon told me the opposite regarding the test and tamoxifen. I'm still waiting to get my copy of the results; when I do I'll see if it mentions it.  Good luck to you!

  • Mopsy
    Mopsy Member Posts: 49
    edited June 2012

    I also had to push hard for Oncotype test.  BS never ordered it from sample, even though I talked about it before the surgery, and when I asked him a week later he then said it is insurance requirement that MO has to order it.  I had to call MO and ask it to be done, luckily "block" of tissue was saved by hospital.  It was push, push, the whole way.  I think MO has no incentive to order the test because if score is low, they lose revenue from chemo, which is substantial, leaving them only HT related visits.

    If node-negative, getting test is very reasonable request.  More difficult if node-positive, as that is usually their reason to go with chemo, until this test came along. 

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited June 2012

    Neeners815

    I did check and Oncotype IS given to those on or off Tomoxifen.   I hate in when the doctor is either lying to me or is ignorant of the facts.  I will love to hear the results of your test.  Thanks.

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited June 2012

     Mopsy

    I don't like to think it but is hard not to think that there is a monitary motive in not giving the Oncotype.  After all, they have this big investment in all this equipment,  Got to pay for it.  By every measure it is iffy if I should have rads at all.  If I ended up with a high score I would be eager to get started with the rads.

    I am fearful.  Damage to heart and lung is still happening.  I have had a chance to sleep on my visit to the MO and the misinformation.  I am getting steamed up again. 

  • julz4
    julz4 Member Posts: 2,490
    edited June 2012

    Infobabe....I so wish you had the Dr's we have here in Pennsylvania.  Although my BS didn't do the Onco DX testing but it sounds like my MO will be doing a just out up & coming new type for DCIS to do new subtypes for DCIS.  I haven't seen my MO yet.  But my BS & him along with other Dr's will be doing my case on a Tumor Board.  Many Dr's from Onc's, Surgeons, & Radiologist's get together once a week to discuss BC tumors that are complicated & what's the best most up to date way to treat them.  My BS has already consulted them on several occasions about my DCISmi that's ER-, PR-.  grade 2-3,  2.8cm.  We are waiting for the Her2 testing to come back.  I'm also pre menopause.  I'm in a gray area....they are not sure what to do with me.  I wish you the best with those Dr's.  My BS welcomes my ?'s & doesn't see it as the threat.  Maybe you could do a Conference Consultation with BC Dr's at John Hopkins.  They have a wonderful team there.  Several of my friends have gone to them for BC.  I am at a much smaller place in York, PA.  But they are very comprehensive in there approach to treatment.

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited June 2012

    infobabe - the Oncotype dx test for invasive BC assumes the patient will take (is not currently taking) hormonal therapy when the assessment is done for future risk, I think your doc is assuming this is also true for the Oncotype dx test for DCIS.  Not a lie, but rather an assumption based on the most widely used test to date.  Because this technology for DCIS is new you are unfortunately caught in that time period before (or if) this test is routinely ordered, bad timing and not enough information on the part of the doc seems to be the culprit.  You also have to consider the distinct possibility that if you received the test results and you were in the "gray area" you would have no additional information than you have now.  There are many women who experience this who have invasive cancers, and I know it is frustrating.  Also the ordering of this test should have been done at the time of your lumpectomy, do you know if you still have sample that could be sent?

    mopsy - the OP has DCIS, not an invasive BC - I personally have never heard of anyone having chemo for pure DCIS.  If they are receiving chemo it is because they have an invasive component to their BC.  The theory that Oncotype is not being ordered for DCIS because oncologists have a financial motive does not hold water.  The question, I think, lies more with what type of surgical procedure or radiation is appropriate, rather than chemo.  Sorry - just don't want anyone to be confused about who the test should be ordered for.

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited June 2012

    SpecialK 

    Just bear in mind that I am DCIS, Stage 0, grade 1 and 76 years old.  Total hysterectomy 33 years ago.  The cancer math board says there is about no difference for the 15 year prognosis between treatment and no treatment. 

    I am going to die anyway, I just don't want it to be of cancer.  I will probably go ahead with the rads given the obsticles.  I don't like there being a tool out there that I cannot have.  I feel that my docs are behind the curve.

  • marilyn113
    marilyn113 Member Posts: 118
    edited June 2012

    Infobabe - The Lansing area does not have breast specialists.  A general surgeon did my first surgery which found the DCIS.  He refered me to an RO at Sparrow who was rude, defensive and didn't want to answer all my questions.  I had to argue with him about getting an MRI to check both of my very dense breasts so I had more information before deciding on treatment.  So I went to U of M for a 2nd opinion.  They really work as a team there.  The doctor's have a "tumor board" which meets every week to discuss cases and decide recommended treatment.  You can meet with a surgeon and radiologist on the same day.  I had my 2nd lumpectomy and SNB there.  It's too far away for radiation so I had that done at Ingham.  But I went back to U of M when I decided I couldn't live with time bombs on my chest for the next 30 years or so.  They will be doing my BMX on 8/1.  I would recommend going to U of M for a 2nd opinion.  It will give you peace of mind to work with experts who do work as a team and will discuss your concerns respectfully.

  • julz4
    julz4 Member Posts: 2,490
    edited June 2012

    Thanks Marilyn I was hoping someone in her state/area would come along & have some helpful Dr's, Breast centers that might be able to help her out.  It's frustrating when your not sure who or where is the best or better place to turn to for answers!

  • Infobabe
    Infobabe Member Posts: 1,083
    edited June 2012

    marilyn113 

    I have a phone number for a person at U of M who can get me started.  I am calling on Monday.  I have wasted a lot of time waiting to see the MO thinking I might find a sympathetic oncologist.  No luck.  She was pretty aloof.  When I said "Oncotype" she responded.  "You're not getting it."

    I think I have to fish or cut bait.  Quit griping about it and take action or shut up. 

  • Lee7
    Lee7 Member Posts: 657
    edited June 2012

    Infobabe,

    Why wouldn't your MO give you an AI, like Arimidex or Femara rather than Tamoxifen? I thought AI is standard of care for post menopausal women. 

    edited to add,  I also had to fight for the Oncotype to be done in my situation and I also ended up switching to a new MO.  I'm in a much better place now.

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