Combining alternatives with conventional treatments

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  • Circles
    Circles Member Posts: 133
    edited January 2012

    Hi Chico1,

    I know, the information we get is always so confusing and so conflicting.  My Integrative Doctor suggested Milk Thistle and in large amounts I might add.  I did check over at Life Extensions and they too recommend it in their cancer protocol.  Maybe it is a good estrogen to help balance the bad?  I will look further into it.  Thanks for the tip!

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  • allurbaddayswillend
    allurbaddayswillend Member Posts: 355
    edited May 2012

    Circles,

    Thank you for writing and sharing your open letter to your cancer.

    I appreciate the info you're sharing also. I was going to take Milk Thistle but hesitated because of a couple links I'd found that mentioned the estrogenic activity:

    http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/milk-thistle

    http://foodforbreastcancer.com/foods/artichokes  (makes it look good for HER2+ bc however...)

    What are your favorite sources for info? Are you taking CLA supplementation? (edit: oops, I reread your list on the first page, nevermind... :) ) Heard anything on it? Any of the skullcaps? Thanks!

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  • Circles
    Circles Member Posts: 133
    edited May 2012

    What are skullcaps?

    Interesting on the studies...  One says it helps cancer die and one says it helps cancer grow.  When I see my Doc again I will ask.  I get a lot of information from Life Extensions.  As a member I get free consultations from Doctors, Nurses, and many specialist.  Perhaps I will ask them as well. 

     I had also read that milk thistle can stimulate cancer growth and I have backed off the recommended dosage.  The Integrative Doc had me on 5 daily so I cut back to 2. 

    Damn cancer crap is all so confusing!  What DOESN'T cause cancer?

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  • allurbaddayswillend
    allurbaddayswillend Member Posts: 355
    edited May 2012

    "What DOESN'T cause cancer?"

    My sentiments EXACTLY!

    Skullcaps are herbs: Scutellaria baicalensis and Scutellaria barbata. A company is in Phase II trials of some derivative or extract of barbata used against breast cancer, they call theirs BZL 101. I've looked around and read about it but have no idea really how one would use the straight up herb.

    http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/scutellaria-barbata

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  • OleOne
    OleOne Member Posts: 5
    edited May 2012

    I'd like to add something too. Chemo and radiation therapy are very powerful, but they also have unwanted side effects and can even cause metastasis because they suppress the natural immune function. I read that actually more people are dying from secundary infections caused by the treatment than from cancer itself. So the best thing would be of course an all natural approach, but this is uncharted territory. Second best, IMO, is to combine chemo/radiation with medicinal mushroom extracts such as Turkey Tail and Chaga. These extracts (and several others too) normalize the impaired immune function, increase the quality of life almost to normal and even have a moderate direct anti-cancer effect. Used a lot in Asia!

    Read e.g. this clinical trial, using an extract of the Turkey Tail mushroom:

    http://www.oriveda.com/zips/PSP_TRIALS.pdf

    Very impressive and promising. More background and many research papers can be found in this repository:

    http://www.oriveda.com/resources.php 

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited May 2012

    OleOne, I think that statistic is wrong.  If more people were dying from cancer treatment, I would have met some of them.  As of now, the only people I know who died of cancer died of actual cancer.  I'm not saying that it doesn't happen - I believe that it does.  But I don't think it's the majority, not by a long shot.  I would say that CAM treatments can allieviate side effects and long-term effects and help us maintain our health through treatment.  I believe that this can definitely improve prognosis, etc, by allowing us to complete treatment, stay on schedule, etc.

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  • allurbaddayswillend
    allurbaddayswillend Member Posts: 355
    edited May 2012

    Hey Circles,

    I picked up a CLA supplement too but then I did some more reading and had some hesitation. The supplement I got is half c9,t11 and half t10,c12 CLA. t10,c12 actually stimulates erbB2 breast cancer.

     http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/6/1269.full

    I think that is her2 positive BC but my uncertainty in this area made me stop taking the CLA. I am buying only grass-fed beef now to get my good CLA from there (grass-fed mostly has c9,t11). Do you have any comments? Have you run across a c9,t11 only supplement?

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  • himalaya
    himalaya Member Posts: 149
    edited May 2012

    im busy with studying tapping solution, that gives me amazing peace in my mind and im not in panic about my cancer anymore...doctor today said that he IS VERY WORRIED about me, i said---worries are not good for your heath, doc...

    Can you imagine how much negative  has  doctor who is worried about every patient and plus about his job, salary, his health...

    About diet--i also have green diet now...

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited May 2012

    Himalaya, everyone's worried about you.  Skipping surgery is a mistake.

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  • Circles
    Circles Member Posts: 133
    edited June 2012

    Allyourbaddayswillend, tell you what.  You have got me really thinking about all of this.  I am going to call Life Extensions again today for another cosult on supplements.  One thing I do know is that I showed my surgeon my list of supplements and they only one she said not to take was soy isoflavins.  I will report back here what they tell me.  To be honest, I am looking for a supplement made just for bc all in one.  Taking all these pills each day is such a pain.  However, if I must, I will!  Thanks for the heads up, btw!  My CLA is 1000mg of sunflower seed oil, conjugated linoleic acid 780mg, cis-9 trans 11 isomer 390mg, trans 10, cis 12 isomer 390mg.

    Himalaya, I am not one to tell other people what to do with their own bodies.  But I will share my experience.  I began with lumpectomy because I had the existing lump 25 years and it had become large and dimpled.  Never expected cancer...  I was NOT going to have a lump removed for no reason.  Surgery is frightning, for sure.  But, learning this big lump (size of lemon) WAS now cancer, I knew I had to listen to my Doc and pay careful attention.  MRI clearly showed there was still cancer left on the back chest wall.  I was terrified it may have invaded my lungs or tissues.  My Doc said a masectomy was the only way to stop it.  I really didn't want the masectomy but I wanted to live so I agreed.  Only after the surgery were they able to determine if the margins were clear.  Lucky for me, they were clear.  Now here is the really good part...  The reconstruction is fabulous!  I still have a final surgery to go on that but I will have the best boobs in the neighborhood AND I am cancer free.  Of course I will always have to fight to stay cancer free and there are no guarentees.  But I eat organic as much as possible and I buy grass fed, unvaccinated beef.  I have also changed from Atkins diet to more fruits and veggies and less meat overall.  But it would all be for nothing without the surgery because that saved my life.  Can you share your experience with us?

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  • allurbaddayswillend
    allurbaddayswillend Member Posts: 355
    edited June 2012

    Circles, if it helps, I think we are in the clear with the CLA because we are Her2 negative.

    Thank you for sharing your story!

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  • Ang7
    Ang7 Member Posts: 1,261
    edited June 2012

    Can I run something by you all?

    I have been having some pain under my armpits.

    Had mastectomy and chemo almost 3 years ago.

    Went for a sonogram and they saw nothing.

    Met with the oncologist who wanted to do blood work for possible infection in lymph nodes.

    She then asked me if I use Lavender Oil?

    I told her I use a lotion after showering that has Lavender Oil in it.

    She told me to stop using that as Lavender can cause hormonal changes in the body?

    That could be the source of my pain?

    Anyone know about this?

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  • himalaya
    himalaya Member Posts: 149
    edited June 2012

    Circles, thank you.

    My story is---i was not ready for surgery in february....then i got  more  'second" opinions and decided--ok, i go for that.

    Then we made the date for surgery 30th may.

    And then happened something what i didnt expected---i felt total energetical non fit with my surgeon and i didnt wanted him to cut me.

    Second one surgeon  what was in that clinic also was about the same.

    So i canceled surgery and as more days gooes as more i dont like think about surgery.

    My inner voice can not say----no, dodnt go for that.

    Why? I dodnt know yet.

    There is some certain way how we live life ---everyody individualy.

    If masses go for  one gideline, there will be alaways somebody who  goes another way.

    We can say---all ways are good, they lead us to one point--death.

    And we can say---all ways are good, because we all enjoy life in our own way till  we die (from cancer or some other way)

    Some enjoy life  with surgery , hronical post surgery pains , painkillers and chemo, some enjoy it withoutgoing all those activities.

    My sister and MIL did everything what masses do and what you recomend me, and all worried doctors recomend me, and all worried people recomend me...and they died short after surgery.

    I see my uncle from my childhood who is a beautifull old man, sunshine for all of us, then he was diagnosticed with  cancer somewhere in his belly...they gave him 3 months to live if he doenst do the surgery.

    What he did? He went to one old lady for advice, then picked up tonns of herbs from forest and feelds, drinking those hearbs tea daily...now he must  be maybe 80...he is sill alive .

    That is my experience.

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  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited June 2012

    Ang, I can't see why lavender oil should cause inflamed lymph nodes. It causes breast changes in young boys who are very sensitive to all sex hormones.  The oil is made up mostly of phytoestrogens.  I've looked at a lot of websites, but here is the Medline Plus page.

    Medline Plus - Lavender

    And here's a study which shows no estrogenic effects.

    A study of lavender and tea tree oils on postmenopausal FSH levels and hot flash severity.

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    I have done all the conventional treatment, and I am now on femara.

    In addition, I have cut sugar and white carbs from my diet in an effort to keep my blood sugar low and steady. As far as I can gather this may very well be helpful in holding the cancer at bay. At DX my fasting sugar hovered in the upper 90s and now it is down below 90, so I am pleased about that.

    I have cut way back on alcohol, limiting myself to max 3 glasses of wine per week.

    I have cut way back on meat as well, sticking to veggies, some fish, a little chicken and only ever so occasionally some red meat. Bacon, lunch meat, prosciuotto etc are history.

    I have cut out most cheeses and other high-fat dairy, but do have some kefir and also some low-fat milk in my coffee.

    I make sure to walk a minimum of 45 minutes daily, and I usually walk more. Next week I will start going to the gym as well.

    I try to breathe deeply every so often. Apparently it is really important, as Apple also notes, to breathe and get enough oxygen in your system. This is also why exercise is important, and it may even be why alcohol and cigarettes are bad, since both interfere with oxygen uptake and distribution.

    As far as supplements, I take a baby aspirin every other day and calcium with D3 (doc's orders). I also take acidophilus daily to prevent yeast and UTIs (it keeps mucuous membranes healthy). I just bought some seaweed and munch a bit of that every day or throw it in food. I am considering adding melatonin to the mix.

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    Sweetbean, the ole "chemo kills more than cancer" is bandied about because strictly speaking it is true, I think, or at least you can interpret the stats that way. However, the people killed by chemo SEs would usually have died sooner, from the cancer itself, if they had not gotten the chemo.

    What the statement means in practical terms is that if you have stage IV, metastatic cancer, there is a good chance that you will die from some sort of infection or other complication brought on by the treatment. However, without the treatment, you would most likely have died anywhere from sooner to much sooner.

    A friend of mine died from stage IV lung cancer recently, but his immediate cause of death was pneumonia. After 4-5 years of chemo on and off and with his lungs full of mets, he eventually could not fight off an infection in the lungs which was probably brought on by a low white cell count related to the treatment. So, yes, in one sense the chemo killed him, but without the chemo he would not have had those 4 years with his young son. 

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  • Circles
    Circles Member Posts: 133
    edited June 2012

    Himalaya, thanks for sharing your story.  I wish only the best for you, no matter what choices you make. 

    Ang, I do not use any scented soaps when possible though finding unscented shampoo is impossible it seems.  I do not wear purfumed anything, I wash clothes with free and clear laundry soaps.  That is interesting about the lavender and scarey.  Can you get an MRI to see if it has caused andything to happen?

    Momine, it sounds as if you have a good plan and are doing everything right!  Good for you!  Do you notice feeling better with these changes?

     Ladies, have you heard of wheat belly?  I recently made some diet changes trying to add more fiber and eat less meats.  I added some whole grain, no sugar cereals and occasional whole grain bread.  Now I seem to be getting some heartburn, which I have not suffered from in 8 years on Atkins Diet.  I am researching the wheat belly research and it seems it is genetically modified and they say causes problems, particulary with weight collecting in the belly, dubbs the term wheat belly.  Any comments?

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited June 2012

    Circles, yes, I do feel better, although getting rid of the cancer must also have contributed to my feeling better. I had all kinds of vague, annoying symptoms for years. 

    As far as wheat belly, I am a bit dubious. I do not like the idea of genetically modified crops, but I also find the claims that they act markedly differently in the body to be quite difficult to believe.

    I am also a bit dubious about wheat being problematic generally. It seems to me that the biggest problem with grains is that we tend to eat the highly processed versions far too much, and with wheat we probably tend to eat it in combination with weird additives, sugars and other things that are not very good for us.

    So, I do eat wheat bread, but I eat wholegrain wheat bread and I get it either from the bio-store or from an artisanal baker in my neighborhood who grinds his own wheat and adds nothing funny to his bread. I would avoid supermarket bread, even the stuff claiming to be wholegrain.

    For pancakes, I use kefir for the dairy and buckwheat flour.

    If I make my own bread, I get wholegrain rye flour. I make flat bread from that and also quiche pastry. Rye is very tasty.

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  • purple32
    purple32 Member Posts: 3,188
    edited June 2012

    RE:  D.I.M

    I know a lot of ppl. have tried it.  I see so many conflicting reports.  Here is a medical clinical trial. I just thought someone might be interested:

    http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?cdrid=703752&version=HealthProfessional

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