help!! concerned for a loved one

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fufu
fufu Member Posts: 43
edited June 2014 in Alternative Medicine

Perhaps you ladies can shed some light. I am truly concerned about my cousin's choices. She has IDC, stage 3, grade 3, ER-/PR-, HER2 positive.She was diagnosed seven months ago and has received no medical treatment, and no surgery by choice. She decided to start living a holistic lifestyle instead and believes it will cure her cancer. I saw her tonight and she didn't look so good. I am truly worried. Have you ladies seen results with this type of cancer with no medical treatment?

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited April 2012

    Hi Fufu,

    Sadly, in my experience, everyone who has turned down even surgery has had a bad outcome.  I've heard some anecdotes of people who beat it without surgery, but I can't verify it and I haven't seen it.  I'm really sorry that she is making these choices, especially with a ER/PR -, Her2+ diagnosis - that's really aggressive. :(   

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited April 2012

    Fufu, Not many bother coming to these forums and admit to not having any treatment.  When they do, they usually get so much negativity that they leave so we don't know their outcome.  I know that at an Australian holistic cancer retreat they have had some successes, but the majority succumb.  Most participants there are people who have had conventional treatment but they know their treatment options will run out so they are attacking the cancer on as many fronts as they can.  No one knows just what aspects of the natural therapies work, but I'm sure something does as a few successful cases are being documented.

    I so wish more research was done on people who can be verified to have beaten the odds so they could work out what the essential factors are and start proper studies.  Meanwhile those who delay treatment are gambling with their lives.  I wonder if there's some sort of online support forum for the holistic centre?  If there is she may see for herself the failures as the other members deteriorate. I'm afraid that's a really aggressive cancer as I'm sure she's been told, so I hope she has a change of mind soon.  Hugs to you, take care of yourself too.

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2012

    Sweetbean, that is what i am afraid of, a bad outcome. Unfortunately she has started complaining of various new symptoms but is still choosing not to go to the doc. Sooooooooo worried. JoyLiesWithin i posted on the alternative board because i thought i would get some feedback from women who did choose to just go holistic. I guess i am just looking for some positive results. I am one who respects people's choices though when i see a loved one refuse medecine all together it concerns me. I do understand theat she has a very agressive cancer and i do believe that she is playing with her life, and it saddens me because she has a young son. I have tried soooooo hard to make her rethink her choices but have been unsuccesful. She did go to a holistic center called the Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida, where she was tought that becoming a raw vegan will cure her disease. Thank you for your responses, they are truly appreciated. Wish i can convince her to get on these boards.

  • candygurl
    candygurl Member Posts: 130
    edited April 2012

    Fufu, you sound like you are worried sick about your niece. I'd be too. HER2+ is very aggressive. She shouldn't play around with that. At the same time, I could understand her fear. Surgery has been linked to accelerating cancer by stimulating the formation of metastases in other parts of the body via many mechanisms including, suppressing immune function, increasing cancer cell adhesion, promoting angiogenesis, and stimulating inflammation. There are, however, ways to prevent surgery induced immune suppression that can be found online. But IMHO it would be best if she worked with a naturopathic oncologist instead. 

    Also, electrotherapies such Bio-Electrotherapy and Galvanotherapy(sp)  are alternatives to surgery that are now growing in popularity. She should research them. The tumor should not remain in her body.

    There are natural alternatives to chemotherapy as well such as Insulin Potentiation Therapy .  http://www.naturalnews.com/033421_insulin_potentiation_therapy_cancer.html#ixzz1r7wrXf21

    She would have to find an alternative/integrative cancer clinic that offers the services she needs.

    In case you have not noticed, BCO is a conventional medicine site.  Alternative minded BC patients would not invest too much time here, so you'll have to try your luck elsewhere.   

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited April 2012

    My friend's mother chose that holistic route, some sort of body wraps and supplement therapy.  She had a small, stage I cancer.  She died two years later with it ulcerating through her skin, having spread to her lungs.  It was quite awful.  She was not in the medical system so couldn't get hospice care and her children had to do everything up to the end.

    Her2+ cancer is very aggressive.  I had a Stage II HER2+ cancer and did all the treatment: mastectomy, 6 rounds chemo, a year of herceptin, and only four months later it was back in my liver.  I cut out half my liver and guess what?  It still grew back.  I'm back on chemo again and will be forever.  

    Yet, hercpetin works for many women and they get long lives out of it.  Not trying is beyond my understanding.  I know the alties will tell you that nobody knows and there are lots of successes that are not documented, but you won't find me believing it.   I am pretty sure that your neice is going to succumb to cancer without treatment.

    But, you can't make her do it.  So good luck to you. 

  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited April 2012

    Fufu, I'm so sorry.  Even the most ardent alt supporters advocate surgery.  There are very few who tell you that you can get away with skipping surgery.  

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited April 2012

    Fufu, when you say she is not looking well, what are her symptoms - is she in pain?

    So sorry to hear about your concern -it must be painful and worrisome.

    I fear that they may be nothing you can do - you can't make an adult get treatment if he/she doesn't want to. Sometimes it comes down to that basic principle. Somewhere, deep down, she may already have made a decision.

    IDC grade 3 PLUS locoregional metastasis PLUS no surgery PLUS not looking good a few months later is quite ominous, to say the least.

    My only advice is to try not to trouble yourself too much with research of what can or cannot happen. I would turn my attention to supporting her immediate family at this point.

    There is so much we don't know here...

    Anyway, sorry that we can be of so little help. Wishing you the best.

    Edited.

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2012

    Zuvart, i am worried sick. I honestly wanna go to her house and grab her and take her to the hospital but, i can't. I must respect her choice but, i don't have to agree with it. CoolBreeze, God bless you! stay strong and keep healthy, do what you gotta do to cure yourself of this dreadful disease.Sweetbean, i know i have been pushing her to at least have the surgery from day one, why would anyone choose to leave the tumor lurk inside their body? Makes no sense to me. Athena, when i say not looking well, i mean not herself, she looks frail and weak, and has back pain, severe headaches, pain on underarm, and discomfort in chest, has lost a lot of weight but i will take that as normal for someone who has no fat in their diet. I wish i can get through to her, how does one watch a loved one waste away without a fighting chance??

  • ibcmets
    ibcmets Member Posts: 4,286
    edited April 2012

    Fufu,

    I'm sorry she won't get the help she needs.  She does have the option of complimentery medicine and traditional.  She could alter her diet and get treatment as well.  I'm stage IV from the start in 6/09 and doing well but I realize many stage IV pass on even with treatment.  Treatment can prolong our lives for many years.

    Terri

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited April 2012

    Zuvart, I like your take on this.  By proposing ways to overcome some of the shortcomings of surgery, maybe she'll come around.  We all need to feel listened to.  Sweetbean is right too, I've rarely met any alties who would skip the surgery.  But if the back pains are from mets then it's too late for surgery, though she may be having headaches, pain and weakness from her fear too.

    Fufu, it sounds like you're doing the best thing, just loving her and lending an ear.  What if it was already too late to stop the progress seven months ago?  You'd be doing your best to support her, just as you are now.  What a treasure you are!

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited April 2012

    As sweetbean and many others have said...not having surgery to remove the tumor is a very risky venture.  The most adamant alternative gurus still strongly suggest that if a tumor can be removed by surgery, do it, beause the body's immune system must work too hard to try and kill off a cancerous tumor that has grown out of control, and it will then not have the ability to keep the body in a healthy state.  If nothing else, your relative must consider surgery.  That said, HER2+ is very aggressive, and whatever tx is considered, it should also be aggressive.  

    Sending prayers and healing energy! 

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2012

    Thank you ladies for all your input and your very kind words. I can understand the fear factor though isn't the fear of the actual disease much greater than the fear of the drugs??? Chemo is not easy on anybody and yes it is a risk but chances of seeing results with chemo are much greater than without. The side effects do take a toll on the body but one does eventually get back to normal and is able to live a normal life again. As for the surgery, i think it should have been done a long time ago. You ladies are awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited April 2012

    Sometimes it's of the fear of losing (or having lost) control. Your cousin can't control the fact that she has cancer, but she feels she can control it HER way. She probably fears giving up control of her body to chemo, and opts for the "known" of diet, supplements, and her own value system.

    Before long, unfortunately, she'll fear dying in pain. Which is what we all fear. Not dying, itself, but dying in pain.

    Asking her where her fears lie may be quite an eye-opener. It may be none of the things I have mentioned.

    At a minimum, she should have pain management, regardless of what she thinks the pain source is.

    I am so sorry you are having to watch her go through this. She has made a less than popular choice. But as an adult, it IS her choice. My hope is that she has no regrets about her choice later. If she's living life the way she wants, so be it. (I know that's not a popular attitude/opinion on my part, but that's okay.)

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited April 2012

    fufu, Sorry to hear about your cousin. I understand her fear of cancer treatment. There is a great alternative place called Osasis in Arizona. I've know someone with late stage, whose tumors are disappearing.

    It seems from what you shared her cancer is progressing and if she doesn't get treatment she maynot be long for this life. She needs to know that these are symptoms that her cancer is spreading and without surgery or herceptin she maynot be long for this life. If she then chooses not to do anything more then there is nothing to do but pray for a miracle.

  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited April 2012

    Fufu, She is lucky to have you.  i know that you will be a blessing to her during this, whatever happens.  Sadly, I agree with Athena - things are looking ominous.  AnneW makes really good points about fear being the motivator.  "Love, Medicine, and Miracles" is a wonderful book by Bernie Siegel that talks about the power of the mind in these situations.  He was a surgical oncologist who believed that the mind had a lot of healing capabilities - however, he always advocated conventional treatment when it was recommended.  He just also saw visualization and guided imagery/meditation as powerful tools in the fight against cancer.  it's a wonderful book.

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2012

    AnneW, I know why my cousin is so fearful of chemo and i completely understand her, but i also feel that if she doesn't at least try then she has no chance. Her mom and my mom passed almost five years ago (they were sisters) to chemo related complications. They were being treated for hodgkins lymphoma and one of the drugs called bleomycin affected their lungs so badly that the results were fatal, we lost my mom and three days later lost her mom (my aunt). So as you can see she does have good reason, but not good enough for me. It does not mean that it will happen to her, and as you said she will most likely die without any treatment anyway so why not try to live? I understand that it is her choice and i must respect it, but i definately don't like it. You are right when you say if she's living life the way she wants, so be it. She is an adult i cannot change her mind believe me i have tried.

  • Jodycat
    Jodycat Member Posts: 123
    edited April 2012

    Furu, have you tried any sort oF intervention, with a group gently giving her the many reasons they want her to have the surgery? Perhaps have a minister from her church address the issues?

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2012

    Jodycat, Yes! I have tried, and she just told me that she is considering the surgery, soooooo happy. I kept pushing for at least the surgery, and she has a scheduled mri and then she will see the surgeon. I can't wait for her to get that tumor out of her body.

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited April 2012
    Woo hoo!  Cool  You must be so darn relieved!
  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2012

    JoyLiesWithin, Woo hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is right!!! Relieved to say the least, i am elated. Thank you for all the positive energy.

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited May 2012

    So just an update on my cousin's condition. After my last post she decided not to do the surgery, she did have an MRI done and just received the results today. The tumor has grown and there are two new tumors on the same breast. Needless to say that i am devastated. I respect people's choices but this is a sure case of alternative medecine does not work. Thought i would keep you ladies informed since you all took the time to answer my post. As of today she is considering surgery and chemo, i am hoping and praying that she uses whatever she has to to survive.

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited May 2012

    Maybe seeing the tumours have grown will help her decide to have the surgery at least. The surgery isn't likely to cause problems. 

    I'm glad you"re still supporting her.

  • fufu
    fufu Member Posts: 43
    edited May 2012

    JoyLiesWithin, That is exactly what i am hoping for. At this point she has been told by the doctor that she must reconsider having chemo treatments. I am praying that she makes the right decsion for herself and for her young child who needs his mommy. I will always support the people i love even when i don't agree with their decisions.

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