questions about diet change and DIM suppliments
Comments
-
Hi,
I am taking Tamoxifen but I also take both DIM and Calcium D Glucarate. I take the Bio-Response DIM. They are using this particular brand in the University of Arizona study. 150 in the morning and 150 in the evening.
Best,
Stacey
-
B123, because MDs prescribe expansive meds and I believe it's actually illegal for them to recommend natural remedies
Stacey, I don't know if you are concerned about soy, but the BioResponse formula does contain soy
-
When I shared what DIM was with my MO before she quit and brought up a website and she read it, her response was: "maybe I should be taking this".
Since I have been taking it I get my period less often ( it was like 22 days) and now its a good 30 days with less pms side effects.
Calcium d glutarate has been recommended- I would like to know more.
thanks!
-
I looked up the websight you mentioned and its wonderful but I also saw some reviews from people stating they had bad reactions? I am excited to learn about this and scared at the same time, what if it doesnt work? How sure are we that it does? I think I need to go to a naturopath, Im so confused on what to take and do.
-
Does anyone know whether ER- should use DIM, please? I feel I have a hormonal imbalance but I was ER- PR+ (only 5%). I am so scared to use anything, so very scared. I used to use progesterone cream as I was convinced when I read Dr. Lee's book " what doctors don't tell you about menopause", I trusted him, and used progesterone cream. I think that's what caused my cancer. But I really need to balance my hormones, I have so many problems. I think I am on the borderline of getting a diagnosis such as fibromalaygia. I know it is coming from lack of balance of hormones as all this started when I started my menopause at around age 47. Is anyone out there ER- taking DIM, please?
-
It is not illegal for doctors to recommend non prescription remedies.
-
Hmm too bad the bioresponses contains soy as it seems absorb-able. However, my Chinese guy has it compounded (at a compounding pharmacy) in an odorless cream (with Chrysin so I am taking them together). He believes it is best absorbed through the skin.
I too would like to know more about Calcium d glutarate. How is it different than plain old calcium?
Thanks.
-
Truebff, did you say you are taking both DIM and Tamox? How has it made you feel? Is it hard to take both? I am having a very hard time to start taking Tamox over again, it killed me the first 2 times. Not sure where to go from here.. Did you have a hysterectomy, if you dont mind me asking? That is next on my list, but not necessary unless I take tamox and stick with it, due to the endomet cancer risk. I currently take zoladex and am doing well on it, just some bone aches and hot flashes. Thanks!!
-
I was on BioResponse DIM Breast Balance that had the thyroid supportive ingredients. Found out it had soy, so switched immediately, don't need a push.
Now I take ActivaMune which is patented by the U of CA. Am happy with it, bioavailable so much moreso than 13C. No SEs for me. Cost effective. They also offer a program for referring friends and after so many, getting the product for life. Have not done that yet, but good luck.
I chose not to do Tamox, had just got my memory back and felt health improving, did not want to bacck track in any way.
-
B123,
I have no problem sharing. (Just can't spell on computers-hence the edits!) This is one of the best parts of this board: women sharing information with each other!!
Not taking tamoxifen or AIs. Not planning on it. Ever. Never. I didn't do chemotherapy - had oncotype score in low enough end that all my docs agreed it would probably do more harm than good, if any- and now I am even more glad I didn't do that. I am having a hard enough time in that I did the radiation. Hardly made it through and am paying for it in skin damage,life force loss, fatigue,loss of flexibility, causing some -also- depression, as well as lowered thyroid function, fuzzy brain, eye damage, and a lot of the side effects they don't tell you about. Grrrrr.
I had a lumpectomy w/clean margins and clean nodes. All my other female equipment is in tact. I am exercising 5 days a week, eating mostly within reason right. (Um, I like a glass or two of wine still.) Always learning and growing. Having trouble with stress at times, but moving through it.
I am still deliberating on whether to go with the fat grafting. I have small breasts and am very balanced, but would love the inside tissue to be softer and heal better. Outside is okay. And wouldn't pass up exchanging a small amount of fat to have my breast perfect in shape completely again.
I was warned by other docs against tamoxifen and AIs. My MO kept "forgetting" so I am shopping for a new one who will work with my alternative medicine practitioner (Chinese medicine). My Chinese guy has me on a list of supplements - some to rebuild me after radiation and others to direct estrogens to metabolize the RIGHT way. (DIM-Chrysin cream being central to that.)
Hope that is helpful.
Sounds like you are soul-searching (as we all do). Let me know if I can help in any way. There are so many on these boards who help each other!
-
truebff - I am wondering about fat grafting? I would love to know more. Is there any link you have for this type of procedure please? My left, the one with the BC is smaller than the right, also there is a deep dimple due to an infection from lumpectomy. Also, I am wondering whether it would be safe to even touch that area after BC. The several cosmetic surgeons I saw, never mentioned anything like fat grafting. I am wondering from where could one transfer fat from? Any info. on this subject would be very appreciated. Thanks.
-
Lovelyface, there is a thread on the reconstruction sight by whippitmom that answers all the fatgrafting questions, she is very good with that info and the sisters on there are so helpful. Maybe that could help you, I forgot what the thread was called exactly?? Maybe someone here knows?
Truebff, thank you so much for sharing! How did you find your chinese guy? What is his specialty? He prefers DIM in cream form? Do you put it all over your body each day? It looks like anyone can order the pills online, but Im not sure how much to take? I did radiation as well, my skin on that side is very tight and the implant looks smaller then the unaffected side now. Did he tell you that he recommended any kind of ovary removal/suppression? Thanks! And, YES Im struggling for the one right path to follow,Im hopeing I find it soon and can come to some peace in my life.. thanks.. your a gem!
-
I went on dim and my tsh levels went up drastically for the first time in many years. I have had low thyroid and have taken levothyriod for almost 40 years and basically have very little change until I started taking dim-plus. This scared me so I stopped taking it. Started taking iodione and hope this helps. I would like to take dim but not sure if I should do to the thyriod problem. I was told to take arimidex and I did not take it.
-
yes, w/ my extreme thyroid issue, i need another estrogen 'control' source than DIM, but I like my DIM. argh.
-
Maybe its the brand of DIM? I wonder if others have the same problem with DIM? Its all natural, why would it cause thyroid problems? Are any of you under a naturopath for this med or are you on your own taking it? If so, how do you know how much to take? Do you need to have ovaries removed or can you just stick with zoladex shots?
-
Hi again. I use only a measured amount (about a dab) that comes (the measuring device) with the cream from the compounding pharmacy I go to. I rub it into a hairless part of the body mostly I deposit it on one forearm and rub it in with the other forearm.
I have never had thyroid problems that I've known about for sure, but since rads went flat so it is being looked into.
I have never heard that DIM would cause problems or SEs at all (except that Vivre seems to have had some kind of dry eye??)- so this thyroid change may or may not be related to DIM. I would be interested in learning what you find out if you follow that up.
With so many things that could be causing certain odd body signs, some (like AIs and tamoxifen) are obviously toxic, but others ??? Especially from natural remedies that work with nature???
But this is also one of the reasons why I think it is important, even if you choose to go non-Western, to work with practitioners and doctors who will monitor and help guide the natural way. For me, anyway, I feel very cared for by my Chinese guy. He calls me and checks in on my "life" too and has made friends with my husband and cares about us. Nice.
-
truebff,whats the Chinese med cream for? I had asked on another thread about taking Remifimen which is a German formulation with black cohosh to help with the hot flashes cause the Arimidex had left me floating in my own sweat at night. SpecialK seemed horrified. I gave up on the Arimidex after I was short of breath several times trying to make it from the curbside bldg to inside my office to work and also having my tongue and mouth swell up and be covered in kanker sores and ulcers for a week making it hard to talk,breathe,eat,sleep,and brush my teeth,also had all the other side effects listed on patient insert pkg. I was given a real bottle with patient insert from the MO's office to get me started and a prescrip. Dunno what to do? Fiance is worried but I just cant handle the Arimi. Went off everything for a week and took my Armour Thyroid this morn. Had wine last night about 5 ounces with dinner and I itched until 3 am this morn. Guess I am now allergic to wine...oh well,probably bad for me anyways. Anyone taking Remifimen? Do you take it with the hormone erasers like Arimi? Does your doc know? How is working out?
-
truebff, how did you find this chinese guy? What do I look for?
-
Layla,
The cream is a non-oily unscented base and DIM and chrysin are finely ground by a compounding pharmacy with the right tools to do this (can't be done fine enough at home) until they are cream in this base and I get it in my system by rubbing a measured amount in my skin. It is DIM and crysin (like others are taking here) but instead of taking it in a pill, my Chinese medicine practitioner believes it is better absorbed through the skin.
B123,
In Ann Arbor, there are a lot of alternative and natural practitioners and mine lectures frequently in the area. But you really need to interview them and meet with them and see how the fit is and tell them what you need.
I interviewed mine and said I don't want to take AIs. I need another way to address estrogens that might be processing wrongly in my body. He understood and offered me alternatives. I also brought my husband to meet him so that we were both asking questions and getting information. My husband has been my great partner in this whole thing and has been able to retell me information when my brain just can't process it all at times.
You could look for Chinese medicine practitioners or ask acupuncturists to refer you to a Chinese medicine doctor. It is also helpful to find out where they studied. Mine studied at a very reputable Chinese medicine college in NYC.
Hope this is helpful.
-
Viola - eureka and all.... there is my answer. I am seeing the Chinese medicine person now and doing acupuncture and never thought to request the cream from her. Like you, truebff, my brain does not always pull the ideas together even when they are apparent to me later. Thanks for the connection. Next appt Thursday.
-
we are SISTERS working this healing together.
-
DianeEssa,
May I ask why you are doing acupuncture? Is if for breast cancer or to lower the estrogen in the body or for some other reason?
Judy
-
Answers to above -
Judy - the acupuncture is the last thing I would have chosen for myself, but it ends up I am actually doing this for cancer. I went for help w thyroid bcz for yrs I have had pain in thumb/hand area so bad hubby could not even hold my hand the pressure hurt so. One night on cable Veria Livingbe, an acupuncture segment, I realized that the pain was in my thyroid pressure point. So I went for thyroid bcz it is severe for me. Ended up taht they can work through the blockage my body has that is causing it to not work properly and develop to many symptoms.
An acupuncturist and / or Chinese medicine person cannot tell you that they can help with cancer. But think about the track record. For centuries in China, the medicine people there have been curing cancer. They recognize one vital importance - that cancer is multidimensional and each person, also so, therefore the 'recipe' and bodywork must be centered for that person at that moment. Each time I go back, it is different, they are reading me even moreso than a homeopath (something i am quite familiaar with, so understand that this is not a thing that is in us, it is a part of us and can be healed, in my opinion and experience..... except I could not find my way alone, as none of us can.) This breast cancer is systemic, it is all through, no matter what the tests read, we are never done being sure our thyroid is working well, as naturally as possible, our estrogen and other hormones besides thyroid are gentle and balanced for us, immune system strong again.
For me, the blockage was kidney, namely left almost completely shut down, did not know, but I felt the pain there, had complained to drs, to alternative mds too, was told it was my adrenal and given adrenal but that did not do it. Yup, it was the adrenal but the kidney is ruling the adrenal, and since it had no energy to give, it was cutting out the thyroid, the adrenals and lymph first, major organs later. Long story - the acupuncture works at a level to open the blockages and supports the sytem to regain strength and balance.
Answer to DIM - yes, I was told by my GP that Tamox was available for me, bs too. But I found my integrative MD in time for me, was told about 13C. After researching the 13C and reallizing it was not bioavailable enough for me (or anyone, I think) I chose the DIM which is moreso. I told him about it, he checked the brand I first chose, he does not see the problem w soy in it which I did not realize was in there on first one. Friend Maud told me, so I chose the next brank w/o soy, which I ran by him too, and eh says good but you need more iodine now and selenium on the side since it is not in this one. So added those. BUT - the more I read about the thyroid issue and eating the cruciferous veggies causing the thyroid to work harder, the more I wonder what else I could chose.
I don't fault my integrative MD, he is actually a pathologist whose passion is complementary and going ever so lightly against cancer for the rest of one's life. I love that man. But I also know he does not know everything about everything. That is why I am still developing my lifeforce team, acupuncture being one, Chinese medicine. And know I am at the center and the strong one bcz it is my lifeforce at stake here, no one on my health team cares more than I do. : ) So I make most of the decisions.
The DIM I am taking now is from U of CA and called ActivaMune. Patented. I am doing well on it, taking 3 caps 2x day not, I tweak it each week using kinesiology testing w Hubby. I tested to be able to take it with my Adrenal Force and Thyrotain and Borage Blend. Which is interesting bcz these are supporting thyroid while my concern is the DIM could be drawing strength from thyroid. So these all together must be complimenting.
But if anyone knows of a choice besides the DIM or 13C that they have used and liked, let us know, okay.
AND on my list for today, when I go to acupuncturist, also goes the cream of DIM and chrysin, which may be my answer and I forgor all about asking her until just this second!
-
I recently saw Dr Mary Hardy at UCLA in an effort to get off some of the supplements I am on. It's alot to swallow 15 pills, 3 times a day. She recommended an Integrative Therapeutics product - Breast Protective Formula that is a good blend and will allow me to combine into one some of the things I am taking. She also recommended a Europharma formulation with Boswellia - I am traveling so I don't have the name. Will post later.
-
I am curious - for those of you that are using DIM are you also using progesterone cream? My Wellness person I went to last week is recommending DIM, Progestrone cream and iodine. I am skeptical about the progesterone. Any thoughts? Thanks
-
both my "BHRT" doc and my onc said NO to estrogen or progesterone due to being ER/PR positive. I am taking testosterone and DHEA and supposed to start DIM as well as some other supplements....
-
I was on progesterone cream in the two-ish years before DX because of raging estrogen dominance. I stopped it shortly before diagnosis on my own, and once diagnosed, my integrative doc who had prescribed it told me to stay away from it. Met with him back in February and he said that if I still had estrogen issues one year post DX, he MIGHT consider using progesterone again. But, I was strongly ER/PR+ (88/81), so not sure what I think about that. Latest estrogen test showed I am still merrily manufacturing estrogen (I'm 49...). Test showed a normal ratio of good to bad estrogen, but also showed I poorly methylate (process) the bad out of my body. Hmmm.
I'm on DIM with I3C through the same doc. Also, iodine, selenium, C, D, E, fish oil, metformin, adrenal support, green tea extract, curcumin.
-
Hello Madpea - What kind of test did you take to measure the strogen in your body and also was it the same test that showed you process the bad out of your body poorly? Any problems with taking the the iodine? My stomach gets upset. Also you ae taking tamoifen along with the DIM and other things? thanks
-
Truebff - I am curious as to why type of doctors warned you about tamoxifen and the A's. Did they warn you due to the big side effects or because they did not think that you needed to take because your Oncotype was low? The MO's always go to the extreme ( I think ) when recommending treatment. One size does not fit all.
-
I have the most wonderful gyn/ob and fertility expert and former head doctor and medical school professor who is now retired, but still lecturing around the country and working in his U of M Hospital office. He saved my life at least twice over many years and has been an angel on this earth to me and to my family. I trust him deeply.
When I got diagnosed, I called him and he came out of retirement to walk with me through treatments. When I first heard "tamoxifen" he said: NO WAY! He had strong objections - had been doing really ahead of the curve research and writing papers on it for years ahead of the oncologists.
He said it causes tumors in other parts of the female organs. His wife had breast cancer and she was put on tamoxifen some years ago and after 1 week (I think), she developed severe pains and then had to have two surgeries to remove subsequent tumors from other places. He took her off it and has argued with the oncologists about it ever since. He told me he had VERY STRONG objections to using it (and even sent me one of his scientific articles about it - that, of course, was way over my head).
He said I could try the AIs and stop taking them if I had problems. But I looked deeper than the oncologist at the side effects, studied them. I am the queen of side effects and have always had trouble if I took anything (not natural) that messed with my hormones. My husband and I did a lot of research reading and decided against these too.
I then found a well trained Chinese medicine practitioner and asked what I could do to naturally guard against any subsequent bad estrogen pathways. He gave me a natural wrap-around, but also insisted on the 24 hour urine test (I believe about once a year) and to coordinate with western med doctors who would work in concert with him so I was covered east-west.
He put me on the DIM-chrysin cream and the test came back showing my estrogens were just fine without ever taking the AIs, but then he also slightly changed the formula for my DIM-chrysin cream. It will be long term.
Other aspects of the 24 hour urine test have revealed some information about my thyroid and adrenal glands and he is also beefing me up from radiation. So, at this point, he referred me back to my western doc (who coordinates cooperatively with him) for insurance covered additional blood test and sent her a copy of my 24 hour urine test. They will conference over the tests cross reference their findings and then consult with me over that.
He is very heartfelt about my not spending money on every thing under the sun and going for the most appropriate and minimalist supplements, etc.
I have also upped my physical exercise, taken off the extra weight of a year ago, and (mostly) eat right.
I am trying to manage my (previously high) stress levels better and "Let Go and Let God."
I have to look at sensible, doable, and quality of life issues. I also need to be the one -with my husband as my loving and smart and involved partner- making my own choices.
My oncotype dx score indicated Not doing chemo was a good choice. But three separate doctors Including the one mentioned above recommended radiation. It made sense to me and I submitted to it and forced myself through it. I chose to endure it, but was (and still am) also shocked at how poisoned I have felt by radiation. It has jarred my life considerably. And the recovery for me is very slow.
The MOs -so far- seem bossy and give too little info (like on the SEs of the AIs or tamoxifen). And, like you said, one size does not fit all.
These are personal choices for all of us. Knowledge is a very helpful tool.
I hope this is helpful information for you. I know how scary it can be. It is important to make your own choices and also to be respected for the ones you make.
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team