Need help with $5000 Flex Account mistake!

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So based on the recommendation from my hubby's human resource lady we took out $500 last year in Dependant flex spending, then the whole $5000 this year.  When we submitted dependant medical bills for last year we got denied only to find out that Dependant flex is for child care. I don't need child care and I have been specifically advised by my doctors to keep my son out of childcare.  I am a stay at home mom.  So it looks like the $5000 we took out this year we have no eligable expenses for.  I am in tears.  I don't know what to do.  We can't afford to loose the $5000, I have a $6400 deductible.  We called his HR lady and she just said call the flex company.  My hubby looked it up and it says we would have to have birth, death divorce.... ect.  Non of those options is available.  I feel like such a dumb a-- and I don't know what to do.  Please give advice.  The HR lady is not willing to really help just told my hubby to basically deal with it on his own. 

Comments

  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited March 2012

    Can you call the insurance company first?

    Do you have a company insurance ombudsman (I had a bill that provider wanted paid and insurance said it should pay but after a year, it was unpaid...called ombudsman and it was resolved in less than a month).

     Last resort...do you have a child that is dependent care age??  If yes, can you contact a care agency and sign up and ask if you can pay in advance, then get a receipt. Submit that receipt ASAP. As soon as the check clears, cancel the dep. care to get a refund.  I have never used dep. care so do not know the nuances but have used flex care for medical stuff when I had a job.

    You will continue to have the money deducted but will have been given it upfront in essence.

    Maybe someone smarter can help.

    Good luck.

    I would have thought dep. flex meant ANY care for a dependant---so if you are claiming them on your taxes, any care given them should be qualified.

    Can you check the company website to see what is allowed before getting upset??

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited March 2012

    :(  I would have to have a job to even have the flex child care be covered :(  From our understanding both parties have to work.  Even if we did enroll him it wouldn't be covered do to my lack of employement. 

     We called the company who handles my hubby's companies flex and they said its up to the employer to let him out or change the flex.  But the HR lady who handles all the insurance stuff is a freaking idiot.  This is not the only time she has givin us wrong insurance or benefit info.  Mostly now I handle everything on my own and we don't ask her question sanymore like we are supposed to.  I am just a wreak.  It looks like we are going to have to call the head of the division and explain to him.  He is a great guy though, sent me a monogramed blanket when I got DXed.  God this S++T is a pain. 

  • susan_02143
    susan_02143 Member Posts: 7,209
    edited March 2012

    Every state has a Commissioner of Insurance. Call that office. They know the business, know the rules and if there is anyway to fix this error, they will know how to do it.

    Plus, wouldn't you love that HR person to get a call from a state agency?

    *susan* 

  • Chickadee
    Chickadee Member Posts: 4,467
    edited March 2012

    I have to ask this. Even though this HR person recommended that you take these loans didn't you read the terms of the loan?



    Perhaps there is some way to negotiate a payment plan. I hope you can find some helpful solution.

  • Wendyspet
    Wendyspet Member Posts: 246
    edited March 2012

    I would ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY go to the HR Lady's supervisor, head of department, whatever.  If she doesn't know what she is talking about, then they need to fix this.  AND if the insurance company says the employer CAN fix it, I would run with that.  5 grand is alot!!  Good luck.

  • marial
    marial Member Posts: 255
    edited March 2012

    Typically there is a flex medical and a flex dependent care offered at a company.,if both are offered and she signed u up for the wrong one, have the hr person call their carrier and switch them.. If there is no way to get out of it, you would most likely need to find someone to to "provide daycare" to. The child and submit claims for that..but that would be considered income to that person..but if hr made an error, make them fix it and get you unenrolled and have them say it was their error!
    class='post_sig'>Diagnosis 12/15/2010 IDC 3cm 0/6 nodes stage IIa,grade 3' Triple Negative</div

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited March 2012

    We werent given terms. Just a slide show on the isnurance benefits and answer to questions. The problem with childcare is that they wouldnt approve the spending anyway since both parties must be employed. :( yuck. Hubby called the higher hr lady and they didnt call us back yet. Its just crazy this stupid stress :(

  • Chickadee
    Chickadee Member Posts: 4,467
    edited March 2012

    Was this HR person pushing a program? Falsifying documents? That might be an opening to who is responsible for this mess. I don't understand how you could borrow funds from a child care flex program if as you say there needed to be information that both parents are employed! It should have been denied.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2012

    Chickadee, you are misunderstanding.  They did not take a loan or borrow funds.  The money is withdrawn from DH pay pre-tax.  Then throughout the year or at the end of the year you submit bills up to the amount and get the money back.  If you don't use the money you lose it. 

    MiniMacsMon, have DH keep pushing the higher-ups to get it fixed.  It was not your fault they gave you wrong information and they need to fix it.  I'm certain it will only take one call from them to the insurance to have it stopped.  Amazing how heartless some people can be.

  • chrisct
    chrisct Member Posts: 2,662
    edited March 2012

    I found a couple things online that indicate that there are IRS guidelines somewhere that "mistaken elections" can be corrected if there is "clear and convincing evidence" of the error.  Sounds like you have a case for this since you were not and are not working and therefore were not eligible to enroll in the DCFSA in the first place.  So it would be be reasonable to say that you enrolled in the DCFSA by mistake and that you had meant to enroll in the HCFSA. 

    None of these links actually tell where the IRS guidelines are, but they all refer to their existence.  I'll keep looking to see if I can find more info.  Thought I'd share these links so you could look further also... 

    http://www.opm.gov/retire/pubs/bals/2006/06-801.pdf

    http://www.lawknowledge.org/employment-labor-law/30044/

    http://forum.freeadvice.com/fringe-benefits-95/fsa-election-mistake-correction-350349.html

  • chrisct
    chrisct Member Posts: 2,662
    edited March 2012

    Here is one more that refers to the informal comments IRS officials have made regarding how an employee's election can be "undone."  Enrollment mistakes are discussed at the bottom of the page.

    http://www.hr-system.com/Allowable_Flex_Plan_Status_Changes.htm

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited March 2012

    You guys are amazing, Chris thats awsome!  Definately great info to re-approach HR and the big boss with!  Thank you so much, i am goign to have a much easier time getting to sleep tonight now ;)

  • Chickadee
    Chickadee Member Posts: 4,467
    edited March 2012

    No misunderstanding. I used the med flex account when I worked. I can see tha how I stated it created the confusion, sorry.

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited March 2012

    I understood what you meant Chickadee, but we weren't given any information.  WHen filling out the erpllment choices its basically an opt in opt out form, no guidelines were included.  Believe me, I would have read them, I am very analytical.  Anyway, the lady who made these mistakes also lost our son's Birth Certificate for enrollment, which we had to give her in 2010 when D was born, she threatened to drop him at the last minute, but she had to have had it for his birth and the re-enrollemnt later that fall for 2011, but no tin 2012.  She also lost our marriage cert at one point, and said she would drop us at that point.  Its super aggrivating.  Sorry, this woman doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling ;) 

  • Chickadee
    Chickadee Member Posts: 4,467
    edited March 2012

    Warm fuzzy doesnt describe it. Perchance are there other employees willing to come forward about this woman's incompetence? The moe you reveal about her the scarier she is considering how she can screw up people's lives. Yuck!

  • She_Is_Virgo
    She_Is_Virgo Member Posts: 28
    edited March 2012

    I'm so sorry for this confusion for you.  As an HR professional, let me try to help here.

    Section 125 of the IRS code allows pre-tax contributions to be made to either a Flexible Spending Account, or a Dependent Care account.

     In your case, you wanted the Flexible Spending Account.  The DCA is either for children (daycare) or any other 'dependent' (elderly parents) where you are the 'legal guardian'.

    You can contact that HR person or higher up and explain that an honest error was made during Open Enrollment and you were signed up for the wrong account.  It doesn't matter whose error it is at this point, you need it fixed.  There is no reason why your company cannot do this for you, especially if you have not submitted any claims yet.  Explain what the initial intent was that you needed the funds for.

    I help the employees out all the time, with no problem.  You may need to get approval from the person who makes the benefit decisions for your company.  It isn't that HR person.  Maybe a CFO?

    Anyhow, it's a typical error made over and over and easy to fix.

     I hope this helps.

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited March 2012

    Despite all my excitement that the HR department said they would take care of it, they don't really want to.  They are willing to cancel the flex we have at this point, but the $1200 we already have in flex and the $500 from last year we will have to use for a babysitter.  Apparently I can becaue I have cancer and "can't work"... the HR lady said.  So she was saying I could "pay" my mom for when she comes to help during chemo weeks, but I don't feel thats honest.  They also said they couldn't re-enroll us in the correct account.  I forwarded the links and info from you guys to my Hubby and he is going to email HR.  THey don't want me to get involved (I am our families second line of defense)  My hubby is the nice calm one ;)  But I am getting to the point that I am DONE with these ladies.  GRRR.

  • chrisct
    chrisct Member Posts: 2,662
    edited April 2012

    Just saw this - I wonder if you can threaten to report them for not administering the plan correctly - not making sure that the rules of the plans are clear in the enrollment process.  If it were investigated, maybe they would get in trouble.  This makes my blood boil.

    Also - you have to be careful - if you pay your mother, I believe she will have to claim it as income (self employment income) and pay tax on it - including both portions of social security(employer and employee portions)...  Not sure what kind of documentation she/you would have to have to prove she provided child care services...

    Not sure about the "you have cancer and can't work" part.  Unless you are on disability, I'm not sure the government would say you "can't" work and can therefore use those funds for child care.  Sounds like HR is giving you wrong information about the benefit plan AGAIN. 

    I want them to get in trouble for being misleading in their benefits administration and for their LAZINESS in not wanting to correct the honest error that you have "clear and convincing evidence" for that is going to result in financial hardship for you - either loss of funds, inability to use the funds for the purpose intended (child care instead of health care) OR inability to use the amount of funds needed to cover medical expenses(by their stopping the deductions instead of just moving them to the correct account.) 

    I would especially show them the link to the government pdf document where a government agency documented instructions on how they can make the correction.  If the government is going to make the correction for its employees, your husband's company most certainly should.

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited April 2012

    We showed all the links ans apparently our company lawyers and the Flex account lawyers say the money cannot be transfered but that we can use it for child care due to me having cancer... They have been calling the hubby so I don't have a super clear understanding as to the whys of all of this.  Its still driving me nuts and I am about to go ape-s**t on the lady soon.  The hubby says she really is trying to help, I am not convinced. :) Thanks for all the support so far.

  • chrisct
    chrisct Member Posts: 2,662
    edited April 2012

    Well, if worse comes to worse, if they are willing to stop the deductions so you don't lose more than you've already contributed, at least you can minimize how much you lose. It still sucks that you won't get the tax savings on the money you need to spend on your healthcare - which is what the plan is for.  They really need to do a better job explaining the benefit plans to the employees.  People should not have to lose their hard-earned money because their employer is incompetent.  I want to go ape-s**t on that lady and it's not even my money...  (((((HUGS)))))

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited April 2012

    MiniMacsMom, I don't think the IRS provides guidance on these mistakes.  I cannot find it.   Your company is obligated to run a plan that follows the IRS rules, therefore you are at their mercy   and they won't reverse anything if you don't have good evidence of your mistake.  I think your best bet is to put this in writing right away and tell the whole story - flexible spending brochure was not provided or husband did not know how to obtain, HR lady advised medical expenses would be under the dependant care benefit, you did not qualify for dependant care because you do not work, and how and when you discovered it was in the wrong account.  I believe your company could reverse this, but they will want documentation on file that they can show the IRS.  The fact that you did not work and that your son has high medical bills may be your best argument. 

    I also don't think you qualify for dependant care because you have cancer.  It sounds like they are making you bend the rules rather than them bending the rules.  

    It's not in your favor that you are discovering this error now, so be sure to explain that you took outmoney last year also, but didn't submit bills until ___, at which time you discovered dependant care was for child care and not medical care.  Good luck!

  • MiniMacsMom
    MiniMacsMom Member Posts: 595
    edited April 2012

    The company says the can but wont transfer the money because it would open them up for liablity in the future ... :(  THey said we can use the $1200 for childcare because I have cancer... but from what I have read that is wrong.  She won't type any of this in writing though, she only calls the hubby on the phone so we can't prove it.  Its driving me nuts. Some of the things she is telling us to do sound like fraud.  " oh just claim the money since you don't work the company who handles the FSA won't verify that you aren't eligable for it.  You have cancer so it should be fine"  Not exact quotes, but thats the idea.  GRRR.  Right now, ethicallly, it looks like  we are out the money. but at least we aren't out more.  What is worse.... we are in our out of pocket already so it wouldn't help to re-enroll in the fSA.  They said that if we enroll in april, it will only begood for expenses from april on, not from earlier this year.  Bummer.

    Still trying to fight it all, but fast loosing patients with the HR lady. 

  • SeasideMemories
    SeasideMemories Member Posts: 3,194
    edited April 2012

    Just one thing to add...



    Years ago when my kids were small and in day care we both worked and used the child care flex account. You will be required to fill out IRS form 2441 which lists the name, address and SSN or tax ID number of the person or daycare that provided the child care and submit it with your tax return. Presumably they could cross check to make sure the person who you list has counted it as income but, I have no idea if they actually do.



    We forgot this the first year and got a letter from the IRS that we needed to submit it.

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