Alternative Treatment

JoyLiesWithin ... I agree with you ... surgery was an easy choice vs chemicals and continued follow-up.  I probably did overkill with the Hysty/ooph but the thought of more scans ... (yes, I know cancer can happen in the areas that used to have parts but then I would just consider myself mega unlucky)  I think ... if you can cut it out - cut it out.  The big decisions are what additional treatments/supplements you want. 

These threads have taught me that there is no one protocol.  Even with mainstream medicine re: statins ... no holistic doc including my dog's holistic vet would ever think you should take statins ... yet mainstream docs including my daughter think if you have high LDL you should be on a statin.

Soooooo breast cancer docs are even more "all over the map".  My oncologist wanted me to do chemo and not do OncotypeDX.  Others on here from all over the world have oncologists who think they should not do chemo with much higher OncotypeDX scores than I had.

Unfortunately, there is no one right answer.  But, I personally have chosen surgeries and supplements and total change in food, liquids, exposures, etc. over chemicals.

in my favoriet weeky newspaper, the ava, there was an obit last week about a youn (40ies) woman who had sergery, radiation, chemo, was "okay" for 5 years then "it" returned & she was dead that year.  must be very uncomfortable to have it return after a mastectomy, for instance.  I'd like to see if I can best that wdoman't record without torture therapy, but in 5 years I'll be 80.  & with sergery I couldn't work.  I'm a painter, do to a long story I was unable to work for 10 recent years & just got back to it in 2010.  have 11 new oils!!

Abigail, 

It sounds like your mind is made up, but if you don't have reconstruction, you'll be back to painting in a week.  (Reconstruction is the really painful part, most ladies say the mastectomy was not that bad.)

I don't know what your stage is, but I knew a Stage 1 woman who tried to get rid of her cancer without surgery and just using alternative methods.  Within 6 months, she was Stage IV.  She died in March 2011 at the age of 51. 

Hi Abigail, 11 new oils, that's very impressive ! My prayers and thoughts are with you also.  

Does anyone know whether this is a myth or not ? I've always heard that when they open you up, contact between the cancer and the air makes it spread like wildfire.  Am gonna start googling to see if I can find anything.

we're all. everyone, is fighting, posponing death all our lives.  it's not as if we can evoid it.  we can do what we think sensible for our own situation, & live well as long as possible

Well, I'm almost sorry I googled....Abigail, looks like you're being very wise 

Anesthesia directly related to recurrence 

Daniel Sessler, M.D., an anesthesiologist and chair of the outcomes research department at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, who has studied the topic but was not involved in the latest research, suggests that general anesthesia could weaken the body's immune system and its ability to kill tumor cells released into the bloodstream during surgery, therefore making the cancer more likely to return.

A similar study of patients undergoing surgery for breast cancer found that utilizing regional anesthesia in the form of propofol and a paravertebral block reduced the risk of recurrence or metastasis during the initial years of follow-up.

http://www.anesthesiazone.com/featured-news-article.aspx?id=10362#_ftn1 

"It might be surprising to learn that the presence of the primary tumor serves to inhibit the growth of metastatic cancer elsewhere in the body. The primary tumor produces anti-angiogenic factors which restrict the growth of metastases. These anti-angiogenic factors inhibit the formation of new blood vessels to potential sites of metastasis. Regrettably, the surgical removal of the primary cancer also results in the removal of these anti-angiogenic factors, and the growth of metastasis is no longer inhibited. With these restrictions lifted, it is now easier for small sites of metastatic cancer to attract new blood vessels that promote their growth. Indeed, these concerns were voiced by researchers who declared that "... removal of the primary tumor might eliminate a safeguard against angiogenesis and thus awaken dormant micrometastasis [small sites of metastatic cancer].

As if the loss of angiogenic inhibition by the primary tumor were not enough of a problem, it turns out the surgery causes another angiogenic predicament. After surgery, levels of factors that increase angiogenesis-also known as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)-are significantly elevated. This can result in an increased formation of new blood vessels supplying areas of metastatic cancer. A group of scientists summarized this research quite well when they asserted that "after surgery, the angiogenic balance of pro- and antiangiogenic factors is shifted in favor of angiogenesis to facilitate wound healing. Especially levels of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) are persistently elevated. This may not only benefit tumor recurrence and the formation of metastatic disease, but also result in activation of dormant micrometastases"

http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/cancer_surgery_02.htm 

The flower that follows the sun does so even on cloudy days. ~Robert Leighton / The power that made the body heals the body. It happens no other way.

Maud, you have heard a rumour that has no basis in fact. Otherwise my ancestors who had BC removed in their 40's and 50's would not have died of old age in their 80's. Surgeons try hard not to cut through tumours in case any cells get into the blood although the chance of it spreading that way is not high. When a primary cancer is removed, if there are already mets that may be too small to find, they may start to grow faster due to factors you have highlighted.  But there are many other factors in play that may influence the outcome.  When a tumour reaches a critical mass, it will be seeding itself around the body and increase metastasis.  When a woman presents with stage IV BC they tended to leave the primary tumour and not operate, but new studies are showing that removing the primary cancer extends life so the old assumption may be wrong.

There are so many variables due to the type of cancer, how aggressive it is, different properties of the cancer etc. There are no hard and fast rules, except that a primary cancer left to grow will produce metastasis eventually and that will surely cause pain, disability, fear, inability to work, death and everything else that we fear from the surgery multiplied many times.

I'll look for the studies and put them up here when I find them but meanwhile, cancer surgery saves lives every day and is indisputable.  But of course I respect your right to that view and think a respectful debate about it is needed to help people make up their mind.

Peace and love to all, the greatest healer of all.

Surgical resection of the primary tumor is associated with increased long-term survival in patients with stage IV breast cancer after controlling for site of metastasis.

 In this study of 409 women, those who had the primary tumour removed lived more than twice as long as those who didn't have the surgery.  So other factors come into play.  It's important to look at the bottom line rather than some theory or biochemistry research.

JoyLiesWithin:  "If you have a primary cancer large enough to feel you are fighting a losing battle without surgery"  Everything I have read confirms this.  Mine wasn't large enough to feel, but I wanted it out anyway.  The thermography I am now going to have every six months will keep on top of any suspicious areas that might be developing within the breasts.  As far as mets go, I've already had a circulating tumor cell test done and it was negative...no circulating cancer cells that were large enough to be found.  Doesn't exclude micromets, but ND said diet and supplementation could help eliminate those by boosting the immune system to do its job.

Maud:  As far as my anesthetic for my surgery, I did have propofol because I asked, and my BS and I joked about it because it was what Michael Jackson overdosed on...my BS said "don't try this at home":)  It was great because I came out of it quickly with no SE's.  That VEGF factor that was mentioned in your post has me wondering if maybe that didn't cause my macular degeneration in my left eye to progress to the point that it is now, because that is exactly how it progresses, with the formation of new blood vessels that distort the macula.  Interesting...I will ask the eye doctor. 

Sometimes I could just scream from all the conflicting evidence out there.  I just read a report that the metal cadimum is responsible for an increased risk for bc in women.  I tested high for this metal in my body.  The highest sources of this metal come from...guess where...vegetables and whole grains, from the fertilizer used to grow them. That makes it all the more important to eat only organic fruits and veggies when consumed in amounts like I am doing, and then you can only hope and pray.

Joy, I'm afraid I may have been misunderstood...I am not encouraging anyone to not have surgery.  I was merely pointing out what I found out from googling re : cancer spreading from its contact with air during surgery.  There is an alternative to trad. anesthesia and according to Kaara, it worked out well for her.

Abigail chooses not to have surgery and I was telling her that in light of what I had found, given her age and status, she may be wise to proceed the way she chooses to proceed.  I am sorry if my words were misinterpreted.

I am no planning anything but merely going along with what the experts are telling me or not telling me....

Joylieswithin, I am trying also to spend less time here at bco. I am limiting my time here and try not to get involved in a war zone or threads (with the exception of the her2 thread) that don't at present involve me. When I saw your name here of course I had to jump in Sorry your business adventure didn't work out as you planned. I'm working on a few things as well (outside my regular work), which is going slower than I like. The present cancer treatment is a deterrent as I'm wrestling with the side effects.  I'm not sure if I should continue with herceptin.

I agree with Joy in regard to surgery. Unless you are allergic to anestheia, I would take out the tumor cells. No matter what my health issues were, I would cut out the beast.  I've always said take out the bad spot on the apple. There are those here to whom feel once the tumor cells have migrated elsewhere there is no need to take out the tumor in that chemo will take care of it. If that were the case none of us would need surgery. I don't understand the logic of leaving a tumor in the body.

From what I understand, as Joy said and I learned from her some time ago is that cancer cells trick the immune system from attacking it. The cancer cells mutate with our DNA so our immune system actually protects it. This is why alternative doesn't always work and we need something more. The best thing to do is surgery. I'm not sure for stage 1a if I should do more and if what I am now doing maybe more harm than good. Especially since Joy said our immune system for early stage micromets destroys micromets. I wonder if it destroys the mircromets that has already mutated grade 3 HER2 +++ cancer cells? Or if those micromets are no longer regular cancer cells that everyone deals with everyday?

The reason again to consider Herceptin is that it locks onto the HER2+ receptors flagging the immune system to destroy any aggressive type of micromets. I also chose to do further treatment than surgery due to the 3 months between biopsy (cutting through the tumor) and the mx. Herceptin is toxic to the body. In the beginning I thought Herceptin only targeted cancer her2+ cancer cells but learned like chemo it locks onto all her2 cells. So, my questions at this point is .... in protecting myself from further cancer is it necessary to do the whole herceptin therapy? My gut says that half the treatments (3 to 6 months) should take care of any possible micromets...I see no need for a year long therapy putting the heart at risk and or lungs. It seems that those with advance cancer Herceptin is a life saver.

Like Joy said if the cancer was to have already migrated elsewhere then it's a major problem...my cancer was a palible lump. I'm hoping surgery took care of it, but there is always that lingering question to if it has gone elsewhere.

I've read many a testimony from other alternative sites and from people I know who've chosen alternative  (along with surgery) has been effective in NED. There of course are those who have done the whole chemo regrime who also claim to be NED. And both camps have those who don't make it.

Joy:  This is why I am having the thermography...it catches suspicious areas long before they can be seen on mammogram...some five to seven years.  If they are caught and treated early with iodine supplements and other treatments, they will go away on their own, but many times an MRI will become necessary because a mammo or US would not show anything.  I will find out this week the result of my recent thermography.  This will become part of my screening, alternating with mammos.

very very interesting, all.  esp about mushrooms, I eat them regularly & know wild ones, studied them for many years.

someone said her surgery was nearly painless.  I wonder at the aftermath.  I'm alergic to opiates

I also have a small celtic body, one size, say anathetics, doesn't fit all, but in my experience that;s what;s given.

recently I've been thinking ice.  I use it sometimes for the discomfort, works well, but I've been wondering if it;s ever used by medical people to zap the cancers

wouldn't matter much if surounding tissue was harmed by freezing, if the alternative was scalpuls.  I'm 5/5 lost an inch somewhere along the way, but I have small bones, thin shape.  I've pretty much never had a good experience with conventional medical people, 7 several horror stories, I expect they perceive that I despise them.

I think shitake is one of the best curative mushrooms, It's widly available now & also in it;s dried form

since the flood in august we've had no supermarket & the owners keep leading us on.  since then my diet has gone downhill.