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March 29 will be my one year anniversery for UMX. I am active, run every other day, carry groceries, change bed sheets etc. Every so often I do something, play chuck-it with the dog or lift and carry something heavier than usual....AND OUCH! I am in pain for days. Why is that? My muscle seems pretty strong, don't have LE. My underarm stings every so often from node removal, but tolerable. I think of my right side as a "guy's" might be. What is missing other than fatty breast tissue? I did not take pain killers at all. The day after surgery my BS had me doing exersizes to avoid frozed shoulder.

I should take a biology class to understand this better. 

Thanks for your input!

Rianne

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Comments

  • LuvLulu07
    LuvLulu07 Member Posts: 778
    edited March 2012

    rianne   I had surgery more recently than you - November of last year - but I know what you mean about over doing it and being surprised.  I'm not sure what type of surgery you had, whether you had reconstruction.  

    My experience is that things have shifted and work differently now.  My pecs do circus acts when least expected.  There is muscle recruitment that is new, that hasn't really been used before.  I see you had a UMX - so the affected side will work differently than the opposite side, and to work both symmetrically would put strain on the new arrangement.  

    I wish you well, and less pain.   

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited March 2012

    rianne, I'm over five years out and I've never been able to resume weight lifting with anything other than the very lightest of weights.  I can do the day to day stuff, house cleaning, picking up grandkids and be fine, but something about repetitive lifting makes my chest ache.  It also seems as if I feel any ache more intensely than before.  Maybe all of that breast tissue cushioned the muscle?

  • Racy
    Racy Member Posts: 2,651
    edited March 2012

    Where is your pain? Are you taking hormone therapy?

  • rianne2580
    rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
    edited March 2012

    I did not have recon, and am taking tamoxifen. The pain is typically along the band where the incision is and sometimes the muscle leading to my underarm. When I look at it in the mirror, I expect to see a huge bruise or something....but all looks normal. Then I stretch and message the area. I even put ice packs on it one time. Not sure if that was a good idea.

    Thanks for your input, the best way to learn is to share!

  • lisa-e
    lisa-e Member Posts: 819
    edited March 2012

    Rianne, have you considered scar tissue as the source of the pain?  It has been over three years since my BMX, wihout reconstruction, and my chest still gets tight and painful.  Stretching and message help me.   Also, I have mild LE and find wearing compression shirts helpful whe my chest is bothering me.

  • coraleliz
    coraleliz Member Posts: 1,523
    edited March 2012

    I had a BMX(bilat BC) no recon 11months ago. I have achieved my presurgery stregth & level of activity. I have an achy left arm. My left arm healed much slower than my right. I swim laps but I no longer do the masters workouts,(afraid to push). I do minimal weights, as before BMX, to try to help with my wimpy upper body. I run, bike & attend various classes(bootcamp & core....) at the gym.

    My BS told me that if I didn't keep things stretched out, I would get tight. She made it sound like it would be required forever. My MO asked me if I ever felt like I had a tight band around my chest. I said no & he told me that most women complain about it.

    I'm having the left arm ache checked out. I'm going to start with a LE therapist just to hopefully rule that out. Since she's also a PT, maybe she has an idea about what's causing it.....something very minor & short lived I hope.

    It seems weird to me also that so much discomfort is associated with our surgeries. No muscle or bone was involved, so I expected to be able to move my arms more freely.....sooner......

  • rianne2580
    rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
    edited March 2012

    Wow Coraleliz, you are athletic! I do feel the band and I am in agony after playing chuck it with the dog. This process is like baseball, but you're chucking a tennis ball maybe 20 feet out. Oddly, I did this game almost daily last summer after my surgery and I had no problem. I would chuck the ball maybe 30-40 times. But when I do it intermittently, wow does that hurt. Like I only do it every other week during the winter. I guess I thought the muscle builds up and gets stronger. My chest is really flat and I don't think there's scar tissue. My bones show through my skin. I will get those compression shirts. I think they will help.

    I'd love to hear more about activity levels. I thought this surgery would be cinch since it's just fat and a few nerve ending...hahaha. Thank you for the input.

  • LuvLulu07
    LuvLulu07 Member Posts: 778
    edited March 2012

    rianne   Were your pecs impacted in any way?   Have you had any symptoms of lymphedema?   I hurt after a lot of activity, but it's more of a swelling feeling, rather than a muscle pull.  Truncal lymphedema is common, and may cause some pain.  

  • rianne2580
    rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
    edited March 2012

    joyh1109, I am half Hungarian! My grandparents came over from Budapest. I don't really have swelling. When this happens I'm always looking in the mirror trying to see if there's obvious damage. I broke a rib several years ago and sometimes it feels like that, but then within a few days it subsides. There's a pink splotch on my chest and the PT saw that and so did my BS and oncologist. They did not think it was anything. I have no swelling in my arm or hand. I guess us MX ladies have to deal with pain and soreness from now on.

  • MT1
    MT1 Member Posts: 371
    edited March 2012

    I love this thread. Thanks to all for posting.

     I am battling a frozen shoulder. I stretch often throughout the day. I think I wore myself out, I was doing PT with a woman at my hospital. She just kept upping the exercise list, 3xs a day. I got tired! I changed PT's and like this new one alot. I am also relaxing on stretching as often and aiming for a quality stretch with each.

    I am limited but I can carry groceries, make the bed-with some struggle, go about my day. 

    My scars (double mastectomy) burn each day. I am almost 9 months out of surgery, 6 months from my last radiation.  

    I look forward to having ease in my body. 

  • cinnamonsmiles
    cinnamonsmiles Member Posts: 779
    edited March 2012

    There is a post pinned to the top of the Surgery, before, during and after section that deals with a post mastecomy pain syndrome.  We range from the slight discomfort to the severe in pain wise.  It could be scar tissue. I had severe scar tissue adhesions just six months out from my surgery. I did the stretches every day that my surgeon told me to do, etc etc and I still ended up with bad adhesions. Fifteen months out from my bmx, I am like some others, still get scar tissue probs. Or it could be the nerve damage. Nerves, I have learned, are weird things. Some days, are better , some are worse.  We can speculate onwhat is wrong, but best thing to do would be call  your dr. and explain what is going on. Maybe something simple could help you or prevent it from getting worse.

  • LuvLulu07
    LuvLulu07 Member Posts: 778
    edited March 2012

    rianne  You are the first to tell me that you are Hungarian!  We're here for a few years with my husband's job, then will return to the States again - sigh.  Have you visited Budapest?

    cinnamon's response in your situation makes sense.  MX is more than removing tissue and fat, there's a network of nerves and fascia that connects in mysterious ways.  I wish that it was easier to move on and get back to the routine, for many it doesn't really work that way.  

    MT1  Good luck with the frozen shoulder - ouch!  Sorry that it happened under a PT's care and hope that you have success with the new one!  

    I've tried hard to get back into an exercise routine.  I am a pilates teacher and have practiced pilates for 12 years, so worked hard going into surgery to be strong.  After surgery, I did PT exercises and learned lymphedema therapy.  At 4 months out from BMX, I'm comfortable with most everything but extreme upper body exercises.  And when I do too much, my lymphedema crops up and lets me know to slow down.   

  • FLwarrior
    FLwarrior Member Posts: 977
    edited March 2012

    I had UMX in August.  I can carry groceries and perform daily living tasks without any trouble or pain.  I find a time or two during the day the prothesis/bra causes pain the way it touches my chest wall.  The minute I get home I take it off and always go braless at home.  I need to start a workout program, but I am scared to do to much...I don't have LE and I DON'T want it!  I do want to go kayaking, but I keep putting it off because I am scared that it will cause LE. sigh... My BS told me that it was ok for me to resume kayaking now.  I was not able to kayak last summer...BS told me not to with the port in.  Are any of you kayaking, rowing, canoeing or doing anything with repetitive arm motion? Has it caused any pain or LE flare?

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited March 2012

    I have mild lymphedema on the cancer side and occasional armpit swelling on the other side. As far as I can understand this means that I can do very little with my arms. I wear a sleeve on the affected arm, do massage and exercises. My PT says that I should avoid lifting more than 4-5 pounds, so that pretty much kills most daily activities. 

    I do still walk my dogs, but one at a time, and from a belt, rather than from my hand. I do also allow myself to knit, but keep to small projects and stop if the arm feels funky.

    It is really quite annoying, because I otherwise feel like I have healed well and could do a lot. 

  • LuvLulu07
    LuvLulu07 Member Posts: 778
    edited March 2012

    FL Warrior   As far as kayaking, I know several women that do this that have had BC surgery.  It's really important to start very slowly, though.  So you would want to do just a few motions the first time, and see how it goes.  Even before you get into a kayak, you would want to have good arm mobility and strength already.  With any arm exercises, start slowly and build up, to avoid LE.   So don't think that you can never kayak, it might be possible.    Did you have PT?  

    Where are you in FL?  Looks like a beautiful beach on your avatar.     

    Momine   I have mild lymphedema, and able to exercise.  The upper body and arm exercises are tough to figure out though.  Some days are better than others.   

  • FLwarrior
    FLwarrior Member Posts: 977
    edited March 2012

    Joy    I had OT not PT.  It was a good thing because I had an adhesion and they were able to break it loose.  I recovered complete range of motion.  Still need to work on strengthen the arm back to where it was.  

    What type of arm exercises are you doing?  Resistance? Weights? (how many pounds?)  I am going to go to the Y here by my house and see if I can get in the "Live Strong" free 12 week program for cancer patients/survivors.  Have any of you tried the Live Strong program?  If so, what did you think of it?

  • sheri56
    sheri56 Member Posts: 39
    edited March 2012

    I am participating in a Livestrong program right now. I love it. There are 8 of us in the class and 2 wonderful instructors. Several different types of cancers in our group - prostrate, thyroid, ovarian, lung and a couple of us with breast cancer. It is so helpful to talk with others who have been through cancer treatments and can related to what you are feeling and experiencing. The first few minutes of each session we just sit and chat. Then we spend about an hour doing different exercises, some times as a group, other times on our own in the cardio room of the YMCA. I highly recommend the program!

    Wishing you all the best!

  • cooka
    cooka Member Posts: 278
    edited March 2012

    Hi FL warrior, I compete in outrigger canoe racing...right now we are in our sprint season but in the distance season races are 10-15 miles. I got lymphedema during chemo a couple of months ago, but even with LE I have been working with a LE trained sports medicine PT and have been preparing for a race at the end of March. In my case, wearing a sleeve while paddling has actually made my LE MUCH better than when I was relatively inactive (of course it was during chemo so that helps, right ? :)  I recommend finding a good LE PT and letting them now you want specific exercises to get you back on the water...and see what they think about wearing a sleeve prophylatically..the guys in the NBA do it, why not us? Good luck! anne

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited March 2012

    Joy and Anne, that is interesting. I am planning to start going to a gym soon, and I will experiment with what I

    can do safely. It does make sense that activity ought to help with circulation, including of the lymph.

  • Claire_in_Seattle
    Claire_in_Seattle Member Posts: 4,570
    edited March 2012

    I didn't have a mastectomy (but I did have 21 lymph nodes removed), and I do everything I did prior to surgery.  Planning on finally getting out and doing x-country skiing later today (if not raining in the mountains).  Last year, I did 12 miles of backcountry at a go.  This was one year following chemo.

    I have been cycling all winter, and I do a weights/crunches routine of lifting 10s free weights.  I am toned and fit.  I never lost range of motion, and I did the weights/crunches all through chemo and radiation.  I think I could benefit from something like Pilates, but this is for general conditioning, not because I had breast cancer.

    I always thought that my body would tell me if "too much".  Except for my lazy abs of course.  They are sneaky and pretend thay can't do something.  So they have to be whipped into shape.

    Good luck with exercising everyone.  It really does help when our bodies are fit.  I find that my BRAIN works better too.

    Plus wonderful to be out in the outdoors with all the spectacular scenery.

  • rianne2580
    rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
    edited March 2012

    Exciting stuff!! Joy, I've never been to Budapest, my dad's home country. But we took a 2 week tour of Slovakia, my mom's home country and met many relatives. You can have one foot in Hungary and one foot in Slovakia in Bratislava (or so they say).

    I love the outdoors, Iove to exercize and I want to do it all. Looks like spring has arrived in Michigan. We will have 60+ weather for 7 straight days and I'm itching to get active. I guess the motion I was doing, like hitting a baseball over and over was not exactly good. Maybe if I build up to it I can handle it. What is weird is it does not hurt at all while doing the motion, it's always the next day...just like lifting weights. I would be in agony 1 or 2 days later, then get right back into it the next day. I had a trainer, but it's hard to get someone who understands cancer to work with you on a consistent basis. I'm going to check out LIvestrong at the Y. That sounds safe. Now, the sunshine is waiting after a winter of clouds....

    Claire, do you have LE issues? You are my hero, I'm afraid to lift 10 lbs.

  • Claire_in_Seattle
    Claire_in_Seattle Member Posts: 4,570
    edited March 2012

    I don't have LE, and my take is that if I should develop it, there is help.  I had that discussion with my oncologist back in the fall.  She asked about whether I was concerned about lifting more than 5lb.  I told her that 5s feel like feathers, and that they don't do it in terms of sculpting.  They really don't.

    Plus, they wouldn't be enough toning for x-country skiing.  Something about that 3k uphill climb I do, when doing the backcountry trails.  I am doing the weenie trails today, not because of breast surgery, but because I trashed my ankle last summer.  I don't think I can hold a snow plow for 4 miles.

    As a funny "arm story", I did get numbness/tingling in the fingers of my left hand earlier this week.  But that is because I was carrying six bottles of wine in a carrier....wine sale at Safeway.  It's just far enough to cut off circulation if you don't switch hands, and I had some groceries in my other hand!

    I expect to be sore tomorrow from skiing.  But that is a good thing. - Claire

  • LuvLulu07
    LuvLulu07 Member Posts: 778
    edited March 2012

    FL warrior   I started working with therabands after surgery, with the help of a PT.  Even with those, I had to go slowly at first to see how the affected side would react.  Then slowly built up from there.  I don't lift free weights, instead do resisitance training with pilates.  So it's hard to tell how much weight I'm working with.  

    If you're starting, I would recommend very little weight, even 1 lbs. with just a few repititions to see how you are.  Lymphedema is no fun, and hard to keep under control.  

  • Claire_in_Seattle
    Claire_in_Seattle Member Posts: 4,570
    edited March 2012

    Skiing was wet (light rain and drizzle), and I could certainly tell the first real ski of the season!  I did the 8 relatively easy miles anyway.  Hurts to sit down today.  Arms are fine though, so working out really does help. 

    Harder work in corn snow than in powder.

    Only problem was that my sno-park pass fell down, so I now have to challenge the ticket I got Frown  Suspect I will check for this the next time.

    Back to cycling today. - Claire

  • Outfield
    Outfield Member Posts: 1,109
    edited March 2012
    Rianne,
     
    I'm a jock, plain and simple as that.  Before my diagnosis, I was playing basketball, softball and soccer (which I've done all my life), and working out a lot so I could play my sports.  I also like hiking, mountain biking and yardwork.  I even like climbing up to clean off the roof.  I had a BMX with axillary node dissection on one side only, my left.  Then chemo, radiation.  Recovering and being able to use my body again after treatment has been like going to a toy store when I was a kid - there are so many ways it feels good to use my body now.  I even started yoga:  had no patience for it before but love it now.
     
    I do have lymphedema on my left, but found that by starting low and going slow, I was able to get back to doing pretty much everything I was doing before lymphedema.  The lymphedema forum is a GREAT resource for questions specifically about that.  There is a lot of controversy about how the data about exercise and lymphedema is presented - I found that it's good to hear the different sides of the story.  Personally, at this point, I would not simply and totally trust a lymphedema therapist unless she were telling me that different people reasonably believe different things about exercise. There's not a lot of great data.  But start low/go slow makes a lot of sense any way around it.  For me, the only activity that has consistently caused any swelling has been hiking - I think because it's the only thing where my arm and hand just dangle while I exert myself.  I wear my custom glove now, and plan to try hiking sticks.
     
    My left pec is also easily irritated.  Doesn't mean I don't use it, I just get sore the next day.  It sounds like what one of the PP's mentioned.  My soreness the next day really does seem out of proportion to what I did.  My pec and the muscles around my axilla often feel like my legs did after a whole soccer tournament with only my average level of activity.  My tumour was large, and to get clear margins my BS took more tissue on that side than the right.  I'm more than 1-1/2 years out from surgery so figure this is something I'll have to live with, but I can do that.
     
    I also have a tendon-like band of scar tissue running vertically through my axilla.  This is fairly unusual, according to my BS, my RO, and the 2 PS's who have examined it (a third PS said it was unfortunately common, but I lost all respect for her when she did not touch me during the exam).  When I lift my arm up, the band pulls tight, like a dog on a chain lunging at something. That's uncomfortable, but not painful.  What's painful is the areas where the band attachs in my upper arm and chest wall after I've yanked on it a few times.  I'm going to get this surgically snipped next month.
     
    And I agree, lymphedema is no fun, but not-living is no fun either.  I really think it's very important to establish a relationship with a good lymphedema therapist early-on, my recommendation is right after surgery.  That person can guide a sensible rehab.  If you don't get lymphedema, great. If you do, then there's already someone who knows you and you can jump on it early.   
     
     
     
  • Claire_in_Seattle
    Claire_in_Seattle Member Posts: 4,570
    edited March 2012

    I wiped out today from cycling in the SLEET!   Hit RR tracks and went down.  OUCH!  My arm is fine, but bruised my (already injured) ankle, skinned my knee, and have a lump on my left cheek.  Hobbling around.

    I am wondering about the guy who came to my rescue and whose wife picked both of us up?!?!?!

    Hmmmmm.

    Will still cycle anyway.  Plus do my reps as suspect will be OK balancing on one foot.

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  Will be nixing cycling in white-out sleet in the future though.

  • coraleliz
    coraleliz Member Posts: 1,523
    edited March 2012

    Claire- Sorry to hear of your crash today. Wishing you a speedy recovery. I'm on the verge of buying a road bike. I haven't owned one in 15yrs. I've been using my battered mtn bike to ride some nearby hills with poor quality roads. It's a good work out. But I miss the long road rides of my past.

    I was my own PT/OT. One of the things I did during recovery was the rowing machine at the gym. You can start off slow & easy and you can always stop. Those with therapists might ask. Swimming really helped me get my mobility back. I had to stop during RADs. Mostly because I couldn't fit it in with daily RADs appts.

  • Outfield
    Outfield Member Posts: 1,109
    edited March 2012

    Coraleliz,

    I begged to be allowed to swim during rads, but they really didn't want me to.  A lot of centers do markings without tattoos now, and mine was one of them.  Not only were they were afraid my tape and marks would come off, but they didn't want the combo of chlorine and radiation to my skin.  I was too neutropenic to even think of it during chemo.

    Swimming is generally a good exercise if you have lymphedema because the water is kind of like a compression garment. 

  • coraleliz
    coraleliz Member Posts: 1,523
    edited March 2012

    Outflield-good to know about swimming. I had the tatoos. I swam a couple of times during the 1st week but soon stopped. My RO was OK with me swimming but suggested i wear a rashguard to prevent sun exposure. I mostly just ran during RADs. I'd stop somewhere on my way home(beach, trail, bike path) & get a run in.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited March 2012

    Outfield, that makes sense, because my PT suggested swimming, except I can't swim and I am too embarrassed to wear a swimsuit anyway so it is out for me. 

    The thing I do not understand is how this fits with the advice to avoid repetitive moevement. Surely a swim stroke is extreme repetitive moevement. The few times I have tried swimming, my arms and shoulder ache and feel heavy after about 20 meters, and that was long before this surgery.

    It also says in the LE pamphlets to stop any activity if it is making the arm feel heavy. I find that even chopping a few veggies for dinner or knitting for a half hour can do that, so I am wondering how one can get to the point of being able to exercise properly. 

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