ER+ & Soy ???

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  • Kadia
    Kadia Member Posts: 314
    edited February 2012

    I have read (on the MSKCC cite, I think), that flax also has estrogenic properties. I now avoid it and eat chia seeds instead.

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  • stage1
    stage1 Member Posts: 475
    edited February 2012

    I, too, am eating chia powder in my oatmeal...safer than flax, I think, I googled flax to find out some is contaminated, depending on where it is grown. 

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  • Jennt28
    Jennt28 Member Posts: 2,021
    edited February 2012

    Interesting this came up. I just discovered yesterday that every loaf of bread, white and multigrain, at my supermarket is made with soy flour. This includes nationally available brands. I couldn't find a single loaf without it :-(



    Jenn

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  • wenweb
    wenweb Member Posts: 1,107
    edited February 2012

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, flax is a no no with certain Dr.'s.  I've looked it up on the internet and there is (again) conflicting information.  One site will say it's bad if you have BC and yet another one will say it could prevent BC.  Go figure.

    stage1  You could switch to fish oil for your dry eye.  You just have to make sure that the fish oil has been purified.   

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  • CherylinOhio
    CherylinOhio Member Posts: 623
    edited February 2012

    I don't know if I ingest a lot of soy but I have read some articles that suggest Asian women have a low overall population incident of getting bc and you know Asian food contains a lot of soy. It is all very confusing. I was recently adding flaxseed to some meals but read that it is not good for er pr+ even though I have seen data suggesting it is GOOD for bc patients.  ?????? Think I will just stick to lettuce and celery and carrot juice...

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  • odie16
    odie16 Member Posts: 1,882
    edited February 2012

    My onc dr told me that most Asian diets do not contain actual soy or in the same form as here in the US thus the difference. Hence I can have Chinese food but not a sandwich since I can't seem to find any bread without soy either...

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  • stage1
    stage1 Member Posts: 475
    edited February 2012

    Thank you, wenweb,for the suggestion, I must try the fish oil. 

    I have been through the bread issue, looking for non soy bread, Sourdough is mostly free of soy, is what I found out...I also got some pumpernickel without soy. 

     Asian soy is grown in selinium rich soil which makes it different from our soy.  That might be the reason  Asian women have less BC. 

    odie16, check sourdough bread.  Also, any gluten free bread, but I don't like the texture.

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  • odie16
    odie16 Member Posts: 1,882
    edited February 2012

    Thanks Stage1. Love sourdough & pumpernickel so I will check those out. Best of luck with the fish oil.

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited February 2012

    Odie, also check the bread at your health food store, if you have one nearby.

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  • Mandy1313
    Mandy1313 Member Posts: 1,692
    edited February 2012

      I  have a very simple recipe for baking whole wheat bread and if you are interested, just message me. It takes a while (mostly because the dough has to rise) but it is organic if you use organic ingredients and also soy free. 

    Have a nice weekend.

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  • stage1
    stage1 Member Posts: 475
    edited February 2012

    mandy, would love your recipe for whole wheat bread:)...I have some yeast and whole wheat flour...

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  • wenweb
    wenweb Member Posts: 1,107
    edited February 2012
    i just opened a container of miso (which is a fermented soybean paste).  Inside was a piece of paper covering the top of the miso with a note stating: Miso soup consumption linked with up to a 50% reduced risk of breast cancer*  (* as reported in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Vol. 95 Issue #12.  It seems that fermented soy is not the culprit, which include things like miso and tempah.  For whatever it's worth to anyone who is interested and happens to like miso etc...
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  • stage1
    stage1 Member Posts: 475
    edited February 2012

    wenweb, does it say 50% reduced risk of ER+ BC??  I think that is the key.  I don't know, we have to be scientists to figure this out.

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  • wenweb
    wenweb Member Posts: 1,107
    edited February 2012
    stage1 No, it doesn't say that.  From what I read about fermented soy, it works differently in the body than regular soy, and helps reduce (rather than induce) health issues such as cancer and heart disease etc.  It would make sense that it pertains to ER+ BC since the reason to avoid soy has to do with it's estrogenic properties.  But yes, we need scientists to figure this out Undecided
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  • Denise-G
    Denise-G Member Posts: 1,777
    edited March 2012

    I drank 5,000 protein shakes and ate 4,000 protein bars that contained soy protein isolate over the course of 5.5 years.  Then I was diagnosed with Stage III Breast Cancer.  The first words out of my surgeons mouth at Univ of Michigan when we talked about diet was "do not consume any soy protein isolate."   Obviously, my heart sank because of my past history.

     So I started researching.  One researcher who has done extensive studies on this and works at a major university, agreed to call me.   He said he has to be careful even what he says as these huge companies come down on him when he speaks out against soy.   He told me he couldn't say that the soy protein isolate caused my breast cancer, but he could say that the soy protein isolate contributed to the size of my tumor (6 cm) and growth.

    It is very difficult to find grocery store foods not containing soy these days.  Soybeans are cheap.  Soy lecithin is the sludge from soy beans.  They used to throw it away.  Now it is used in everything from Hershey bars to cake mixes to frozen health foods.  

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  • stage1
    stage1 Member Posts: 475
    edited March 2012

    Denise, You said it in a "nutshell"...I have been telling all my family and friends this, about soy being in everything we consume, it has to affect us...and I am even more concerned about my daughter and her generation. 

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  • GabbyCal
    GabbyCal Member Posts: 277
    edited March 2012

    I'm browsing through postings to pass the time on a rare evening when I have the house to myself and WOW - came across this posting. I had heard about avoiding soy products, but this is the first I heard about flax being flagged as possibly contributing to BC.

    I had read numerous sources singing the praises of ground flax meal for it's ability to prevent BC.

    So I've been adding it to everything I can think of - oatmeal, salads, breads, cookies, pancakes.

    Anyone with more insight into this, I'm all eyes. 

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  • stage1
    stage1 Member Posts: 475
    edited March 2012

    My MO said to discontinue my flaxseed oil, as it is controversial for E+ BC.  I am no scientist and I will read everything I can get my hands on, but after all...I just do what the MO says.

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  • odie16
    odie16 Member Posts: 1,882
    edited March 2012

    Stage1  - I agree with you it is absolutely scary how much soy is in everything. And like you, I am very concerned about the younger generations of young women as I think added hormones in dairy products has play a part in why girls develop so much more quickly these days.

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  • truebff
    truebff Member Posts: 642
    edited May 2012

    I too am just learning about this. Therefore, take my comments as beginner at this discussion.

    So far, I first heard flax oil was good and then NONO. Then I learned that soy is NONO but that fermented soy is good.

    I found out more about soy when I found it in many fish oil capsules and had to hunt and hunt to find a good fish oil (recommended by my Chinese Medicine practitioner) that both did NOT have soy  (disguised as a gobeldegook technical name and or as "naturally occurring vitamin e") and that did NOT have "kick-back" (why so many-including me in the past could not stand fish oil).

    So far, have found several and am trying medigenics (got it at a compounding pharmacy that carries purer supplements too). But even though it is coated not to kick back,have learned that the best way to doubly insure that is to eat a few bites at the beginning of a meal, swallow the caps, then keep eating so it is also "sandwiched" in your stomach.

    Then, after that hunt for the right fish oil (it took several weeks - to my surprise, even health food stores didn't realize it had soy in most brands and/or also kick-back until we checked) , to my horror found soy oil and/or soy byproducts, fillers, etc. in way too many products. And I eat mostly fresh and pure.

    To my great relief (so far anyway), the fermented is actually good for us - which I hope is true becasue that is what I love the most -the fermented.

    On a side note: I have discovered Original unsweetened almond milk (40 calories a cup) to be delicious and make a smoothie with 1 cup, 1 scoop of dried, powdered wheat grass (looks icky, but actually not bad -the pills are harder to swallow and the raw is complicated to make and may have "molds" in it) and add my probiotics and, it's actually not bad and is a pretty good pick-me-up. For some reason, drinking this mid-morning or mid-afternoon has really changed my coffee desire to low too - (used to be a big coffee drinker). It looks kind of gross, but not bad. Wheat grass is supposed to be really good for us.

    (Like some of the posters, I too, need healthy additions/substitutes/etc. to be at least tolerable and hopefully enjoyable.)

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  • truebff
    truebff Member Posts: 642
    edited May 2012

    wenweb,

    how is fish oil good for your eyes? how does it affect the dryness? do you know how long it takes for someone to feel the affects or how much fishoil to take for that?

    I'm on it anyway now (just beginning to try to tolerate it) but this would be helpful info I'd like to learn more about. (I've also had dry eyes for years and used artificial tears.)

    Thanks.

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  • carolynp
    carolynp Member Posts: 3
    edited March 2012

    What does MO stand for? This is driving me nuts.

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  • CLC
    CLC Member Posts: 1,531
    edited March 2012

    Carolyn...MO stands for medical oncologist....:)

    If you go to the various forums, there is one at the top of the list for just getting started and there is a thread with a list of what the abbreviations mean...:)

    Edited to add link:  http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/131/topic/773727?page=1#idx_1

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  • carolynp
    carolynp Member Posts: 3
    edited March 2012

    Thanks. I had guessed that, but then, I didn't think there was a non-medical oncologist. Now I'm happy.

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  • CLC
    CLC Member Posts: 1,531
    edited March 2012

    Glad I could help!

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  • wenweb
    wenweb Member Posts: 1,107
    edited March 2012

    trubff  Fish oil and Flax oil help to keep the meibomium glands in the eyelids from getting or staying clogged, a major contributor to dry eyes.  Originally I was taking 2 flax and 2 fish oil capsules a day and noticed a big difference.  I also use Restasis which probably adds to the benefits of the oils.  I don't remember how long it took before I noticed the effects since I've been doing this for several years.  Depending on which sources you read, flax is or isn't good for BC pts.  Yeah, the whole thing with soy in the fish oil...I'm going to have to revisit this whole situation.

    May I suggest that you use a lid scrub once or twice daily after a couple of minutes of warm compresses.  Good-luck!! 

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  • FLwarrior
    FLwarrior Member Posts: 977
    edited March 2012

    Carol, MO=Medical Oncologist=Med Onc.  The other oncologist is...RO=Radiation Oncologist.  The list that CLC refers to is very helpful.  BC has its own language...sigh.

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited April 2012

    Well, here's something I just came across that seems to further complicate the question of whether or not soy is okay post-bc dx, especially if you're on Tamoxifen: 

    http://www.healthcanal.com/cancers/28203-Breast-Cancer-Resistance-Linked-Timing-Soy-Consumption.html

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  • momoschki
    momoschki Member Posts: 682
    edited April 2012

    Another soy related question for those of us who are ER+:  what about soy oil added to various creams and lotions?  I just noticed that the "all natural" facial moisturizer I have been using (in order to avoid parabens in a lot of mainstream commercial brands) has soy oil as an ingredient.  Ditto for a body wash also labeled as all natural, paraben free.  Will I really absorb enought for it to make a difference?  Related to this, I wonder about a number of supplements I take, as per my MO, which contain soy.  Looking to find the balance between being careful and not driving myself completely insane over this...

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  • Shrek4
    Shrek4 Member Posts: 1,822
    edited March 2013

    0

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