The FDA and drug companies: Must read

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  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2012

    Hi TuckerTwo, since you addressed me directly, I'll respond that I looked at your link and really don't know what it has to do with the link I posted about the Health Freedom Act and Misinformed Consent.  

    Anyway, IMO, this thread has devolved into yet another Big Pharma/ FDA-bashing frenzy promoted by anti-evidence, anti-science conspiracy quacks like Mercola and NaturalNews Mike Adams, so I'll step out now.  

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  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    Just read the OP again, and haven't we seen this gibberish before?  Comparing the medical industrial complex to the holocaust?  As a Jew, I find this gibberish disgusting.  Not saying that anyone or anything is perfect, but this conspiracy theory and out-of-control group think really gets old and tiresome after a while.

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited February 2012

    digger:  If it were me and I found it that annoying, I would just stop reading that particular thread.  We do have choices.

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  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 777
    edited February 2012

    Ahhhhhh, the FDA, such a trustworthy organization..... 

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/lipstick-lead-cosmetics-_n_1275780.html 

    Lead, brought to you by the FDA, your trusted source of health and goodness. 

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Thank you vickilf. Really interesting article.

    tucker

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Tuckertwo,

    Re:

    The article you highlited to read: The Free Speech About Science Act, is a Science Based Website, written by a doctor who is connected with Better Health LLC. A little research turned up this tidbit about Better Health and medical misconduct for which they were fined:

    http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/cd901a6816701d94852568c0004e3fb7/b085e5a1eaebe8bc85256cfe006de4b8/$FILE/Better%20Health%20Medical,%20P.L.L.C..pdf

    Really?  How about posting this research that you found on Dr. Gorski that backs up your statement. That way we will know that you aren't mistaken, or worse yet,making this up.  Issuing a statement of fact without the supporting burden of proof is irresponsible. 

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  • LtotheK
    LtotheK Member Posts: 2,095
    edited February 2012

    It's really important to vet these sources.  Dr. Mercola is a med school dropout.  His language is inflammatory, and unfounded.  He posits that modern mammography exposes us to more than 1,000 times chest x-ray emission.  Ridiculous, and incorrect.  Here is a listing of the amount of radiation we receive from tests:  http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm095505.htm

    If you don't want to believe the FDA:  http://www.oakridge.doe.gov/external/PublicActivities/EmergencyPublicInformation/AboutRadiation/tabid/319/Default.aspx

    This is the reason doctors do not recommend CT scans to Stage 1 patients, clearly the negative outweighs the benefit.

    Here is a more credible source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/713242

    Let us please not forget that we are not "at risk" patients on these boards.  We are, sadly, survivors of the disease.  For our group, it is an entirely different story about mammography!  The studies are clear:  we need vigilant screening.  Fight for your MRI if you think that's a good alternative, I did.  But, nothing's going to be free-the contrast dye has health ramifications.

    Please lets not scare BC patients off their screening.

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  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    Interesting black-cat.  Guess that's what happens with self-regulation.

    And yes, I do find references that compare the "Medical Industrial Complex" to the Holocaust disturbing (using the term "annoying," frankly, absurdly trivializes this analogy), and I would hope that other sensible people do too.  So, I choose to do some self-regulating myself.  If I continue to see this garbage, it is also my choice to refute it.  

    Likewise, if my posts pointing out garbage are annoying to others, it's their choice to put me on ignore if you'd rather not read anything that contradicts what you'd like to hear.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    I can't figure out if the FDA supervisor who pressured the whistleblower scientists to approve the unsafe radiation devices is criminally responsible.

    Someone leaked an internal email that this person has left the country. I'm not sure where the accountability lies in this scandal. Maybe someone more familiar with government can explain

    I gather the fear is that the FDA has let other devices through also.

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  • ScienceGirl
    ScienceGirl Member Posts: 207
    edited February 2012

    This thread is very disturbing to me.  I'm a drug discovery scientist and have been working in the pharmaceutical industry for 20years.  Myself and my colleagues are ethical caring people who work hard every day to bring new medicines to the market to benefit mankind.  Maybe our industry is not perfect, but do we want to go back to the days when people died from infectious diseases?  I thank God for Herceptin, Tamoxifen, all the various chemo that have allowed wives, mothers have more time with their families.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    http://www.cochrane.dk/screening/mammography-leaflet.pdf

    Wow, what a finding. Those screened regularly got 30% more breast cancer than those who were not screened until the end of the several year trial period. Are they suggesting this is the radiation?

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    MariannaHB,

    Appreciate the info. One has to wonder why the FDA doesn't regulate what goes into our cosmetics and soap products since some of the ingredients in them (PABA, SLS, parabens,etc) have been shown to cause breast cancer & actually appears in breast tumors. Why is the FDA wasting their time cogitating regulating supplements that are proven to help, such as vitamin D, fish oils, and many others? Seems their focus is oriented towards where the money is going - toward unregulated supplements. Caveat emptor, eh? I go to a reliable naturopathic physician who knows all about the drugs that MD's prescribe, as well as hundreds of herbal and homeopathic medicines - medicines that have been around for thousands of years and used in TCM for just as long. (Traditional Chinese Medicine). MD's don't know jack about naturopathic remedies, so they dismiss it out of hand. They are afraid of something they don't understand. Rather than have their pre and post chemo patients safely build up their immune systems and take herbs that actually synergize with the chemo, they refuse to consider it. I take issue with the Better Health group. They are ignorant of CAM alternative and complementary medicine, afraid that the knowledge these naturopaths possess just MIGHT shift their income from a dependancy on drugs to a better and less expensive form of medicine. Why didn't my oncologist tell me to take C0Q10 before herceptin? Because he was ignorant and is sucked into the great brotherhood of physicians, where they all stick together for THEIR own good, not that of the patient. Remember I worked in the medical field. I am quite aware of what goes on.

    Black Cat, you want a reference to my post? Well, you're Einstein but I'll clarify for you and thenewme, or whoever it was, as well. Free Speech About Science HR 1364 that you posted was written by David Gorski, of Better Health....(still with me? Good.) Better Health was fined for medical misconduct (see link I posted about that).  The doctors that write on the website for Better Health are all traditional practice physicians with no experience in CAM, yet they have the audacity to claim it is not science based!!  Google their names if you don't believe me, I really don't care. There is a ton of articles about herbals that do work...of course, if you look on the FDA or doctor oriented sites you won't find it - because - still with me? the doctors are funded by drug companies to support the use of drugs - not herbal supplements.  I posted a public site where info is collected concerning which doctors are paid by which pharma, which you, ltotheh, discredited. It is called Propublica. You can find fault with any of the sites I came up with but I do not find your sites with either FDA or 'gov' in them to instill confidence in myself. You are looking at the wrong end of the horse, dear.  

    As for a few of you who find the word HOLOCAUST offensive, I ask you why? The word was around in the frigging 5th century and is Greek in origin, not Jewish. A word is a word is a word. During Mao's reign in China, well over 30 million people died in horrific ways. That is only one example. That word is one of thousands of words in the dictionary and all I can say is, GET OVER IT. You are throwing out red herrings and missing the whole point of the original article posted. If the thread is offensive you are free to choose another. Please don't nitpick. Now back to the topic.

    What the FDA is doing is dangerous for public health and if you're concerned about 'freedom' best keep an eye on them. They use the words FOR THE PUBLICS SAFETY to make it sound like they are concerned for public safety when they are actually removing your right to choose. What a joke Wink It is already illegal for doctors to offer any other type of treatment than chemo in California and another state or two thanks to the drug company lobbyists and AMA. I for one, refuse to pay prescription prices for vitamins and herbs. How about you?

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Tuckertwo,

    Re:

    Black Cat, you want a reference to my post? Well, you're Einstein but I'll clarify for you and thenewme, or whoever it was, as well. Free Speech About Science HR 1364 that you posted was written by David Gorski, of Better Health....(still with me? Good.) Better Health was fined for medical misconduct (see link I posted about that).  The doctors that write on the website for Better Health are all traditional practice physicians with no experience in CAM, yet they have the audacity to claim it is not science based!! 

    Here Tuckertwo, I'll make it easy for you:

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/editorial-staff/david-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/

    David Gorski has no experience in CAM? I don't know any authority more experienced in CAM  than him.

    I know of  a lot of highly intelligent physicians, researchers and scientists on science based blogs and I don't know of any that are working for this Better Health facility in New York (Gorski's in Michigan)

    So yes, I want you to back up your post with fact and present your evidence.  Just saying that it is so dosen't make it so and certainly does not make you look credible or trustworthy.

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  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    Wow, Tucker, very polite. Actually a little scary if one steps back a moment and reflects on the anger in your tone.



    You're from Canada, right? So you don't pay prescription prices anyway. But I do admire the tenacity with which you seek to "protect" us all from the big, bad medical industrial complex. Must get a little tiresome, however, keeping up with all these conspiracies and brotherhood of doctors out to get you.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    I found the link to Senator Grassley's letter to the FDA. It's quite stunning if you look at the pdf link.

    He is saying they are being investigated for criminal misconduct interfering with the whistleblowers.

    http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=38813

    Letter:

    http://www.grassley.senate.gov/about/upload/2012_01_31-CEG-to-FDA-Whistleblower.pdf

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited February 2012

    lucy88:  Imagine that...what a surprise!  I honestly don't know how people can have total confidence in our medical system knowing that this stuff is going on!  If this doesn't convince you to become your advocate, nothing will.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Black Cat,

    The link you posted above claiming to hail Dr. Gorski as a CAM practicing physician is comical!!! All you sent was a link about his medical experience - so what? It says NOTHING about CAM. In fact, what I have read about him is definitely not pointing towards him being interested in CAM at all.  Read, please:

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/defining-what-a-physician-is/

    In this post which Gorski writes he has nothing but biting sarcasm about CAM, chiropractor, naturopaths, etc. If he can't measure it in a petri dish, it doesn't exist.

    That is the big problem with Western medicine. Many Eastern medicines such as T'ai Chi or Qi Gong cannot be scientifically measured but it works. Those in the know also are aware that herbal preparations are very effective.

    kaara,

    That's what I think too, but some folks believe everything they hear or read.

    digger,

    yes, I am fortunately living in Canada. However, you don't know my personal situation and I am not going to enlighten you. If I have an interest in the FDA and Big Pharma, why should it matter to you?  Maybe I just happen to know several things about it that you don't.  If you choose to live in a bubble, that's your business.  I began this thread with the best intentions and no anger, and sorry, I still have none :)  But some of you ladies sure do!  I am glad to see that most of you are aware of what's going on and have chosen to be your own advocate.

    tucker

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Oh yeah.....the illustrious (haha) David Gorski?......has been funded by the Dept. of Defense, NCI (National Cancer Inst), ASCO Foundation, and Breast Cancer Research Foundation. He also gets 30 thousand pounds sterling (UK) from Bayer Health.

    I would say that influences him just a tad.

    blessings,

    tucker  (Enuf said about Gorski. He's not worth the time)

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  • pickle
    pickle Member Posts: 1,409
    edited February 2012

    Digger..I'm also from Canada and I have to say..the Holocaust analogy is totally offensive to me also.

    I will bow out of this thread beacuse the writing is on the wall...no changing some minds on this topic.

    Perhaps Tucker will be debating with  herself shortly which would be sad because  I truly I hope that she can be open minded and optomistic, inquisitive but not so cynical and jaded. 

    I wish all my BC siaters the best on this journey..keep an open mind, be respectful  and check all egos at the door. This disease will bring your to your knees and there is no room for egos and idealism...it is humbling and humanizing. 

    Cheers

    beth 

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Tuckertwo,

    Re:

    Black Cat,

    The link you posted above claiming to hail Dr. Gorski as a CAM practicing physician is comical!!!

    No, you misunderstood  my post as Dr. Gorski is definately not a "CAM practicing physician".   Nobody is hailing him as a CAM practicing physican. You made that up.

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  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited February 2012

    Bickering is such a turn off-blah

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited February 2012

    pickle14:  Yep...it's all about ego.  Ego is our enemy. 

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  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    Ah, don't you just love the alternative forum, where someone can start an "innocent" post and then stand back and say why the bickering, why the disagreement? Why can't we all just be polite?  

    With that much anger and vitriol, tuck, I'd hope you have another outlet.  For those around you.  

    I assume Gary Null's book is for sale? Is that what we don't know about you?  

    And lastly, I do so appreciate your concern, as a Canadian, for those of us in the U.S. who are stuck with the criminal, murderous FDA.  It's nice you care so much for us. 

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    It's like they're addicted to the alt forum. Sad. So much pain.

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  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    Kaara,

    This is what I simply don't get.  Like tuck there has no ego?  I can actually feel the spit coming out of her mouth as she spreads that much vitriol and hate.  That's what you fall on each time when there's a disagreement with this garbage, that it's just about egos?  Like why can't we all just self-regulate our egos?  

    Ego has nothing to do with it.  At least for me.  But it's pretty easy to see garbage and an ulterior motive when I see it, and I'm sorry you don't, or won't.   

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  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited February 2012

    digger:  It is what it is.  Any time that you feel the need to defend your position, and use sarcasm and "vitriol" as you call it to do so, then it's your ego talking.

    A better choice is just to agree to disagree and move on.

    Have a nice day! 

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  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 777
    edited February 2012

    Right on, Merilee. I thought my FIL was bad about twisting words and pedantic arguments. I've met a few masters here, though, so I've rethought how I feel about my FIL. He seems relatively tame in comparison.

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  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    I assume the twisting word references, pedantic arguments and vitriol refer to tuck, right?  I see no "vitriol" in my posts. But I guess you see what you want to see.  Personally, I found tuck a little scary, and actually even scarier and creepier that you guys don't as well.  

    As I tell my kids, have a superdelicious day!! 

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  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited February 2012

    Digger...My maternal family is Canadian and they DO worry about me living over the border.  In fact, they're petrified to come to New York City...except when it's time to do some shopping!  They take our politics AND crime statistics VERY seriously...more seriously than their own....It never ceases to amaze me how they put down our medical establishment...but wasn't it not too long ago when one of their politicians came to the U.S. for treatment???

    And didn't the latest celebrity, British Christopher Hitchens die here in the States at M.D. Anderson?  People can go on and on about our healthcare system, but the bottom line is that people CHOOSE to come to the United States for treatment rather than other countries....so we must be doing something right...... 

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  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited February 2012

    Hey All, 
     
    Let us all agree to disagree, and remain civil and respectful.
     
    Thanks so much
     
    The Mods 
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