The FDA and drug companies: Must read

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  • chef127
    chef127 Member Posts: 891
    edited February 2012

    Orange

    My final decision not to take her recomendation for an AI was just made but I haven't told her about that. She is working with my RO and I thought out of respect I should let her know. I guess she doesn't need to know and I won't waste her valuable time or mine. I did consult w a breast center where I got my 2nd opinion on the sugery and they will treat me in the future. I may still need a MX. I'm aware of that. They can order all of my follow up tests. I like my MO and I do trust her but I'm not a willing participant. So your right in that seeing an onco is not the right place for follow up. 

    Thanx for saving me the $$$

  • kingjr66
    kingjr66 Member Posts: 764
    edited February 2012

    Wow, this thread is talking.  Comment to the post on the celebrex.  I too can not take these meds due to stomach issues and acid reflux.  But did you know that these drugs (including celebrex) were removed from the market as being unsafe?  Yet only to return with disclaimer "that the medical gains from this product outweighs the risk of side effects"  or something like that.....don't know the exact words.  Celebrex can give you a heart attack... WTF.  I've curred my acid reflux with pure honey.  Swear it works.  have not taken a little purple pill or antacid in months.

  • LtotheK
    LtotheK Member Posts: 2,095
    edited February 2012

    Back to Athena's point about incentives for giving care to little middle class folk like me:  If I had stayed in the foreign country where I was working in 2006, there is a chance I would be Stage IV by now.  In that country, even in the private clinics they have limited or no access to digital mammography, no MRI, no lymphedema clinics, no sentinel node biopsy, no Neulasta, no naturopathic and integrative clinics in major hospitals, and in some cases, like my poor friend dealt with in Trinidad, no chemo.  She had to wait an extra month due to shortage, which could very well cost her her life.

    Yes, I think the system is horribly corrupt, and it sickens me.  But I also believe I got astoundingly good care for which I'm grateful every day of my life. 

    And I guess herein lies the real debate.  The studies are clear:  had I at the age of 39 gone without any conventional treatment, the outcome would likely be grim.

    I'm all for alternatives for less serious medical conditions.  Sauerkraut juice is fantastic for acid reflux.  Try it, you might be able to toss your Prilosec.  And for that matter, fish oil is pretty great for cholesterol, I think the statins are overprescribed.  But...it only brought my numbers down by about 20 points.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Many cancer patients in the rest of the world don't even have access to basic treatment primarily because of the crazy amounts of money being spent on overtreatment of the majority in the developed world, particularly the U.S.

    And, don't even get me started on Celebrex. Remember Dr. Scott Reuben was accused with taking big pharma $ for doing research, then fabricating results and getting studies published in anesthesiology journals.

    Doc Accused of Faking Celebrex Study http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local-beat/Fake-Study-Lands-Doctor-in-Hot-Water-81727667.html

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2012

    Generally speaking, we are lucky in the US that for serious illnesses we have more avenues of treatment at our disposal -even without insurance - than people in all too many countries in the world do. We are way behind some of our First World cousins, but ahead of a majority of the world population by far.

    I am also personally thankful that I had my choice of doctors, treatment centers, etc.... and was able to make any decision I pleased purely on health-based considerations and not financial ones. I'm truly lucky and thankful for that. If I still die, well, who says there is a known cure for BC anyway... Many people had to think about money at a time when they shouldn't be - that's immoral to me.

    So here are my cliche words of "wisdom" (not): one is always better off than many, even in bad times.

  • orange1
    orange1 Member Posts: 930
    edited February 2012

    Re: cost of drugs and who makes money from them.  This is definitely a big problem without a cure in sight.

    I work for big pharma - currently working on a drug to prevent Alzheimer's in high risk people.  It will probably fail.  Why? - no particular reason, just statistically most drugs fail during development.  Meanwhile, I am being paid a pretty good salary plus benefits along with medicinal chemists, analytical chemists, synthetic chemists, data modelers, formulators, pharmacologists, toxicologists, physicians, statisticians, economists, marketing folks, regulatory specialists, animal care technicians, equipment operators, laboratory technicians, project managers, bio-analysts, drug product production staff, clinical supplies staff (for packaging and blinding for clinical trial material), plus many more.  There are literally 100s of people working on this compound at my company, over the course of years, that are getting paid, that the company probably won't make a dime on.  

    So new pharmaceuticals must cost a lot to cover the cost of development, plus the cost of the drugs that ultimately fail.  Without big $$ development will cease - as is already starting to happen in Europe - where prices are regulated.  A big European drug company just announced they are no longer developing drugs for Europe, because the prices are not high enough to cover the cost of innovation.  

    I also think that the health care system in the US cannot afford many more cancer treatments that cost greater than $50,000/ year. (My treatment was north of $200,000)  I would like to see some kind of universal health care so families don't have to go bankrupt to cover medical costs.

    Do I have a solution to this?  No, I am not that smart.  

    What's my point? That the problem of high drug prices and profitability is much more complex than chalking up the problem to greed (of which there is plenty) and conspiracies (which I believe are relatively rare).

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Orange said, "I work for big pharma - currently working on a drug to prevent Alzheimer's in high risk people.  It will probably fail.  Why? - no particular reason, just statistically most drugs fail during development"

    The reason why most drugs fail is because drugs do not address causes. They are merely band aid solutions that come with a long list of strange SEs that are often worse than the original medical problem.

     A drug to prevent Alzheimer's???  God help us! If we continue to depend on big pharma the human race will eventually be extinct. We have to learn when to just say "NO" to drugs, especially when they do not make sense.

    Why not educate high risk folks on how to prevent Alzheimer's. A study published in the September issue of the American Journal of Medicine showed that people who drink 3 or more servings of fruit and vegetable juices per week have a 76 percent lower risk of developing Alzheimer's disease compared to people who drink less than 1 serving per week.  http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/523070/  I don't think a pharmaceutical drug will ever be that successful.

    Several food and lifestyle choices including vegetable juices, omega fatty acids, healthy body weight, mentally stimulating activities, avoiding aluminum, avoiding vaccines and other potential sources of mercury etc are also strongly linked to a decrease in one's risk for developing Alzheimer's. Let's be proactive and share that information with high risk people and the general public, so more people won't have to suffer.    

  • orange1
    orange1 Member Posts: 930
    edited February 2012

    By high risk, I mean those with certain genes that make them predisposed to getting it at an early age.  Its unlikely that a healthy diet will prevent the disease in most of these people.

  • LtotheK
    LtotheK Member Posts: 2,095
    edited February 2012

    That Alzheimer risk is relative, not absolute risk.  There are many risk factors, and a lot of mystery around the disease.  Similarly in breast cancer, I can eat all the veggies I want and have perfect vitamin D.  Dense breasts still pack a huge whallop in terms of risk factor, far outweighing exercise and good health.

    That doesn't mean I shouldn't do them, it just means we need to be careful about weighing the value of those things we can control.

  • orange1
    orange1 Member Posts: 930
    edited February 2012

    Anyway Jenniferme, you totally missed the point.  But it was my bad for thinking most people on this thread had an open mind or was willing to think, when condemning is so much easier.  I knew better even when I was typing it.  A couple exceptions noted.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    kingjr, there are many non prescription medicines you can take for acid stomach or reflux. It was recommended that I try aloe vera juice (the kind with no preservatives) A few ounces a day cured it. Aloe is very healing for anything in or out of the body. Just a suggestion :) Your honey remedy makes sense (and thanks for the tip!) honey is a natural antibiotic. Can't you just see the Big Pharmas recommending it? hahaha, no way to regulate honey :)

    jenniferme, you are right on, and I agree that there are other ways to deal with Alzheimer's. Of course, drug companies aren't going to recommend veggie juices for the same reason mentioned above re: honey, neither are they going to recommend exercise, diet changes or mental stimulation. Most people with Alzheimer's end up in a nursing home. They are kept quiet by using a huge amount of drugs. This is easier for the nurses. They keep the patients in either a bed or wheelchair all day. Mental stimulation? These people are made zombies by prescriptions. You can't stimulate a zombie.

    The FDA is determined to have a sick, pill happy society. It's good for business. The drug companies are happy. The doctors are happy. The patients are...sicker than ever. We must return to the natural world and healing herbs, not synthetic drugs.

    BTW - for dense breasts there are a few suggestions on this site:

    http://breasthealthproject.com/breast-cysts.html

    I had dense breasts myself and ended up with bc. Too bad I didn't know about this stuff.....but drugs were pushed on me as the 'cure all'. What a joke!!

    tucker

  • kingjr66
    kingjr66 Member Posts: 764
    edited February 2012

    tucker:  the honey is also wonders for my seasonal allergies.  I am building up a good immunity.  My ENT agrees.  I also have very, very dense breasts and my lesion was only see on MRI.  Because of this I am now qualified for a yearly breast MRI.  Just getting off the topic, but I saw another thread on this website regarding a video to watch on the use of gamma rays.  It's called MBI, which was developed by an Israel company.  It's still in the early development stage but is designed specifically for women with dense breasts.  It was so very informal and I believe already FDA approved.  But guess what, it is being slapped down because of the chain of those that make money off the very expensive MRIs.  I know that this video is on this website, www.ted.com.  I will look for the thread and post my findings unless some of you ladies has seen this??  It is a must see for all women.

    Saw a brand new informercial this morning by a local attorney looking for women who have taken Zoloft and Prozac that caused birth defects in their children.  (OMG.  Don't get me started on the ambulance chasers.)  There is just not enough long term testing on drugs before they are released to the public.  All these drastic side effects do not occur until long after their use, usually years and by that time is has done so much damage to the molecular structure of the brain and body that it creates cell damage that can even be passed on to your unborn. 

    I never heard of the brca test until recently.  Not sure how long it's been out there.  But think about it, a mutated gene that causes cancer can be passed on from mother/father and can be detected by this blood test.  How did one know that there was even such a mutated gene to develope a test for it?  This so seems linked to the cancer being put into the polio shot (was it the polio vaccine)(don't want to get my newly found  knowledge confused)? 

  • Circles
    Circles Member Posts: 133
    edited February 2012

    Scoot over and make room for me.  I have actually had a Doctor send my husband a letter that he was welcome as a patient but not to bring me to the office again.  Why?  Because I POLIETLY questioned his diagnosis and meds prescribed for my husband.  It's a long story and I have posted it before on other threads so I won't get lengthy with the details. 

    My Integrative Doctor took me right off Prilosec but she gave me valuable tips on how to do it.  You need acid in your stomach and heartburn is often from too little acid.  She had me wean off them, taking them every other day, twice a week, once a week till gone.  I was on Atkins diet, high fat and all and never had a problem again...

    I could go on and on... 

    Personally I take two prescriptions, Metformin and a thyroid hormone.  But if I had let certain physicians have their way I would be taking numerous drugs and I would be doing chemo right now.  Umm, thanks but I'll pass...  Instead I take 68 supplements a day to fight cancer and keep me strong.  I have never felt better.

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited February 2012

    Yes it was the polio vaccine. The flip side is that when there is a vaccine such as being tested in phase one trials at Rosewell Parks cancer center that may very well mean the end of this hideous disease, we need to speed that up- especially for the stage 4 girls, which can happen to any of us in a blink.

  • LtotheK
    LtotheK Member Posts: 2,095
    edited February 2012

    Tuckertwo, thank you for the link on dense breasts, it is very interesting.  My breasts have changed SO MUCH since being on Tamoxifen, read: estrogen clearly fuels breast tissue type.  I'm still dense on mammography, but less so.  I never had cysts, rather, fibroadenomas.  Cysts are a lot easier to manage, one can absolutely affect change by drinking less coffee, for instance.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    OMG!!!! We've gotta stop this!!!! The FDA wants to ban supplements like fish oil, vit D, etc!!

    MUST READ!!  http://thedailybell.com/2941/FDA-to-Ban-Food-Nutrients

    tucker - Because of a loophole in the law, the FDA is considering a ban on healthy products. I really do believe their goal is to keep people sick......

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2012

    Hi Tuckertwo.

    Just an observation.. If you're looking for truthful, factual, evidence-based information, you're looking in all the wrong places. 

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited February 2012

    thenewme:  And you know this because....?

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2012

    "And you know this because....?"

    1.  Reading comprehension.

    2.  Common sense.

    3.  Ability to distinguish fact from fiction. 

    ETA:  4.  Understanding that not everything I read on the internet is true.   

  • chef127
    chef127 Member Posts: 891
    edited February 2012

    i worked in a adult care facility where there was 3 levels of care. Residential, Assisted living and nursing care. Residents went from one phase to the other according to their level of function.

    Many were alone and abandoned by their familys and left to the care of the nurses and aids. They were for the most part caring and loving, as long as you were behaving. We had morning meetings everyday to discuss, among other things, the behavior of the residents. If they showed signs of aggression or irritability a dr was called to examine and evaluate them. Many were put on anti depressants and anti psychotic drugs which left them in a catatonic state. ZOMBIES. MEDICINAL LOBOTOMYS. It was a way of controling them. Walking down the halls lined with wheelchairs and sleepy well behaved geriatirics. Very sad. This was their home, not a mental institution. Reminded me of One Flew Over the Cookoos Nest.

    Who's to blame for this? Their familys, the nurses and employees, the Drs??YES. and of course the drugs.At least 40-60% of them were medicated to keep them quiet and in line. This is abuse, DRUG ABUSE. 

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2012

    Unfortunately I don't think that kind of issue is uncommon, and it's very sad indeed.

    I agree about that, Chef127.  That's drug abuse.   

  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited February 2012

    So now they are gonna try to take our suppliments away??????how scary is that????

    The FDA and Big Pharma has been married for quite some time now....wondering what they will give their family members if they come down with any kind of cancer?????Chemo-no rads-no-the big ALs.-no...what then suppliments???/

    $$$$$$$$ the root of all evil.

  • chef127
    chef127 Member Posts: 891
    edited February 2012

    I will be shocked if the FDA manages to get rid of our access to suppliments. They are forced to add disclaimers in all their advertising and make no claims to CURING anything. But then again they managed to make ephedra illegal. RX drugs have killed more people than ephedra ever did.  A few abusers over did it when they had underlying conditions that killed them. I used ephedra for years to combat fatigue. My neuro told me it was not a good choice, there  were no perks in my taking the inexpensive ephedra. so he gave me script for a drug for narcolepsy. Made me a bit crazy and manic, It was habit forming. very expensive, over 1,000$ a month. WTF.

  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited February 2012

    The FDA is a very powerful MAFIA.And yes the can find a way.they look for the smallest loophope and pounce OR they make one up.

    I was on viox for quite some time then that was pulled along with Celebrex...what the hell did they take out to put it back on.ya know some kinda poison.

    Years ago when i was a young mother i read in the National Inquirer(junk Paper) that ASPRIN WAS POISON...they are right.

    hmmmmmmm just wondering how many of our sistas take an asprin daily???????

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2012

    The FDA is not trying to ban supplements!  

    Even if you don't like the FDA, we should know what they do say about supplements so that we can make informed statements and discuss intelligently:

    http://www.fda.gov/food/dietarysupplements/default.htm 

  • motheroffoursons
    motheroffoursons Member Posts: 333
    edited February 2012

    Just an observation.  I do not see the supplement industries doing a lot of controlled investigations by neutral third parties to see if their claims are true.  The supplement industries have a lot of hype too.  But I still take some supplements.

  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited February 2012

    I take lots of suppliments as i refused all the ALs and I cannot eat veggies.

    I see a whole lot of changes since im not a junk food eater anymore AND that includes Beef and Dairy.

  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2012

    68 supplements a day?  Wow...

  • chef127
    chef127 Member Posts: 891
    edited February 2012

    Grannydukes,

    Eat your vegetables. They are very crucial in an anti-cancer diet.  but if your diet restricts them there is a supplement called Juice Plus+Garden blend, which is a concentrated form of veggie juice. They also have orchard blend for fruits and antioxidents. Unless your allergic. 

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2012
    I take supplements too, but nowhere near 68 of them!  That would be more like a dietary substitute than a dietary supplement, LOL!  
     

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