Gender Identity?

minxie...that is really interesting- about others seeing them...I have been thinking about the fact that I would never go topless in front of my 11 year old son, but felt quite comfortable showing him my non-reconstructed mx scar (to put his mind at ease about how it looked).  But it is interesting to think about...is my mx scar private?  Should it be held to the same standards of privacy in the public? 

Some women do go topless to the beach after bmx.  That isn't my situation, because I had a umx...but it makes me wonder...

As far as sexuality goes, the mx scar and the surrounding area is becoming almost as actively involved in my sex life as my breast used to be.  Finding spots that are regaining sensitivity is a wonderful surprise that I didn't expect...

There is an entire thread on the subject of women with bmx without recon who go to the beach topless.  I think it is under the no reconstruction forum...

I think the whole idea of requiring women to cover up their breasts is crazy.  Many countries do not require it of women.  Once upon a time, here in the US, it was illegal for men to go topless.  And yet, at some point, we legalized that, but not for women.  It has something to do with the illicitness of women...something to do with preventing us control over ourselves and our self-definition.  It becomes so acute in the context of mastectomy.

As I go out in public flat on one side, I find I am quite unexpectedly comfortable.  I feel in command of my life and my choices.  I like it.  But I suspect it is not so comfortable an idea for many.

When I was in college, I came across a wonderful poster of a woman who'd had a radical mx and she was naked from the waist up with her arms outstretched in the sunshine.  She was smiling and strong.  I loved it, though I had no personal experience or interaction with breast cancer at the time.  I bought the poster and hung it on my dorm room wall.  She seemed so powerful and strong.  I hoped then that I might find that kind of strength in the face of life's trials.  But, many many people who saw that poster were appalled that I had it hung up.  Many of those same people were self-proclaimed feminists majoring in women's studies.

I am surprised to find that same strong woman here in myself all these years later.  Life is amazing.

You can see the poster at this website:  http://www.fawi.net/BC/heroines.html  (caution, the pictures are bare chested and explicit) It is the second picture.  I forgot to mention that she'd tattoo'd the scar beautifully...

Kathleen...that makes a lot of sense to me.  "I never felt that my breasts defined who I was or am" resonates for me.  I want to add that they also never were what was beautiful about me.  Funny, though.  I didn't actually know this last part until I had to face removing one of them.  It was only then that I realized I thought I was beautiful.  And that that beauty had nothing to do with breasts.

Thank you, Melly, for kicking off this discussion.  I really appreciate the chance to explore all of this with all of you who understand...

CLC, I have had a similar experience. In an odd way I feel more beautiful now, without the boobs. It is quite powerful to realize that you can look good and be feminine without them.

Such an interesting topic, Melly.  I was pretty small-chested before, so I never really considered my breasts as the big indicator of my gender.  However, when I lost my hair...that made a big difference to me.  I was okay with it...barely wore the wig (but it does make hubby and son feel good, so every once in a while), but I realized I also stopped wearing makeup.  I used to never go anywhere without it.  I mean, I once left my makeup case at home and stopped at a CVS to buy SOMETHING to put on before I went into work.  

I'm doing reconstruction--just had my exchange surgery, but I'm doubting that I'll go forward with nipples and tattoos--time will tell.  But I do feel rather androgynous lately--and while I think that's a great look, it's not the one I would have chosen for myself.  I am pretty much a wear black a LOT type, but I always wear heels to work....this has been the year of the yoga pant.  I think I may need some retail therapy!   

umx is unilateral mastectomy, bmx is bilateral mastectomy...yep....

It is funny...not only do I feel comfortable showing my family and friend my scar, but they are comforted to see it.  My best friend has delicately raised the request to see it several times because she wants the reassurance of knowing that it is healing cleanly and looks good.  My son didn't ask, but when I asked if he wanted to see it, he was so relieved that I asked and the "yes" exploded out of him.  My daughter regularly looks at it and has progressively gotten more and more comfortable with it.

I think the experience has been one of empowering my daughter as much as it has me.

When I was first diagnosed, a bc survivor that I worked with kept pushing me to reconsider reconstruction.  At one point, she said to think of my daughter.  It was important, she thought, for my daughter's sense of self to grow up with a mother with two breasts.  She wanted me to consider the message I was conveying to my daughter.

Immediately, I thought that was argument against reconstruction.  The message I wanted to convey to her was that my beauty and strength was not tied to breasts.  I am glad to realize now that I am succeeding.

I don't know, Melly, if this is the topic you wanted to explore here...  I am sorry if I am veering off topic.  I don't know if this is about gender identity, but I do know it is about being a woman in command of her own identity and who is valued for more than a body and that a beautiful body isn't necessarily a stereotypical body...

Not to hijack this thread, but my son was pulling at my shirt trying to see.  His little cousin had major hip surgery a while back, and he had seen his scars, so my son knew I must have scars.  I didn't want to show him--to have his first boobs be frankenboobs, but a social worker at the hospital actually suggested that when they're a little more healed that I show him.  I pulled it down a little to let him see part of the scar (not the full on), and he said, "Oh Mommy, you don't have those pacifier things anymore!"  I think it helped him feel included in the whole process.

AlaskaAngel:  You asked about some of us.  I am over 60, 19 mos post-BMX, no chemo/rads, and was menopausal for years before bc.  Interestingly enough from everything I have read here my hot flashes were just as severe or worse than those with chemopause.  The aromatase inhibitor (anastozole) has almost turned the hot flashes into warm flashes.  Go figure.  My take is that some of us are "blessed" by nature to have extreme hot flashes that go for years and years and years.  I am thinking that my chemopause from the AI's have nearly spit me out the other end.  Only took 9 years to get there.

BTW, I am a former Alaskan.

Barbara

When I was in France they didn't put a huge media driven cultural point of view----that breasts make a woman beautiful. My breasts are part of my self-image because I had an elective BMX with implants. At age 20 I wouldn not even think of a BMX. I don't know yet at another age if I would have had no reconstruction. Self-image, our culture so many things influence a woman's choice, but I think it would be kind of cool to go running around with no breasts and no shirt on!

Hi Barbara, Momine and thatsvainity,

I'm in SE AK, Barbara. Do you ever miss AK?

Thanks for the responses. What I see on forums in trying to evaluate my own gender issue is hard to interpret because age and menopausal status isn't given for most posts. CAFx6 at age 51 did start me toward menopause, but it was tamoxifen that ended my sense of gender. I mean... I'm genderless, like a 5-year-old. It would be difficult as a single, but as a person married to one guy for about 40 years, it is truly awful.

I hesitated to post on this thread because I only had a lumpectomy. But this is where the gender discussion IS. I am not big on breasts but I wouldn't try to say how I might feel in actuality about removal -- but -- gender is not limited to breasts or no breasts. It is hormonal as well, and for those who are older (the majority) AND who have chemotherapy, docs and their staff people are oblivious to the problems created in regard to gender.

Thanks for the responses,

AlaskaAngel

Funny this should come up now, here is something I wrote about this topic on my blog a few days ago.

I think people are naturally curious. Most are also very gracious. When my hair
was gone, and I would run into people who did not know I was on chemo, not one
person dared mention my hair loss. I think for some, it was just to much
reality, for others it elicited a fear that many woman have. The fear  that they
themselves  may one day have to endure the side effects of cancer treatment.
One devistating side affect  is hair loss, another is often the loss of one or
both breasts.

I remember getting out of the shower bald and breastless one day. I caught a glimpse of myself in the misty mirror. For just a moment I could see myself as a ghost. It was eerie and I said out loud " Holy shit Mer, you are beat up. " I replied to the ghost in the mirror " but I'm still standing
mother f***er!"

I realized that I had picked up the sailor language of my late brother who recently passed away from cancer. I laughed out loud and thanked him for inspiring toughness in me as a child sibling. I also notice just how much I looked like him, without my breasts and hair.

I have always been a bit of a tom boy but this day, I felt like I was genderless. Just some
creature transitioning through this world. I realized that much of what makes a woman feel feminine had been taken from me by the beast. Cancer has a way of stripping you down to your essence, which I found has very little to do with hair and boobs. Loosing my hair and breasts was humbling beyond words. No one ever thinks that such extreme things will happen to them and when you are wrong,  it is indeed traumatizing.

Trauma changes your perspective and deepens your thoughts about the way you spend  your life.  I have always been  a nurturer and have mothered many kids in addition to my own. My favorite role in life is that of mother. The thought of my children being orphans  strikes a raw
nerve in me that makes me cry every time I think of it. It also motivates me to work hard at wellness. It was key in my decision to take a sabbatical from work and try to tweak out a life that is more in keeping with my feminine motherly instincts. They say that when a person looses one of their senses, that the others perk up and make up for it. I dare say, that loosing some of the aspects of my femininity to the beast, has most definitely perked my mothering
instincts. I have also learned that darkness is always balanced with light.
This, I love.

Thanks

Alaska, I ma sorry for your troubles, but I would separate gender and sexuality to some extent. A nun is still female, even if she is celibate, for example.

I do think the sudden onset of menopause that many people experience with cancer treatment and the sudden aging can be extremely difficult. It certainly is something I am in the process of coming to terms with. 

All of the responses are fascinating... I did start to think about how "genderless" I felt at age 40 when I had to have my ovaries removed, it took over 2 years to get in the groove of feeling female again...and now I have lost both breasts at age 56.

 I personally think it is very empowering to say something like "I'm still here motherf**r" It is a declaration of strength and the total essence of being a female warrior.

I also appreciated the woman who had breasts who commented, I have been told this too, that I have the true spirit of a woman, who will do what it takes to preserve herself.

Now this may sound a little different (but hey, I am a different sort of lady) but I have always loved the softness of rabbits and I think of myself as that soft rabbit who had to chew off a body part or two to escape the monster. My act of losing the body parts don't make me any less soft...

I had a bilat mastectomy with immediate reconstruction but lost my implant on the left due to radiation damage.  I also had my ovaries out this past June. 

I've never really been much of a girly, girl.  Although I've worn heels, when appropriate, and use a little makeup, I've never really gotten into the stereotypical girly activities.  When I go to a big party I'm usually more comfortable hanging out with the guys then the women.  Most of the time the women start talking about fashion, hairstyles, and the worst - "dissing" other people.  I have very little interest in those things and NO tolerance at all for the "dissing".

Having a "messed up chest" has made me feel a little less feminine.  I also know that between the ovary removal and the Tamoxifen, my libido has definitely downshifted.  That shift is probably for the best because even though I just turned 50 I had the sex drive of a 17 year old male, lol.  Now, I'm only attacking my hubby once a week.

You know, I was at the exercise center where I go to try and work out all my aches and pains and had the funniest thought.  If I had the other implant removed do you think they'd let me go in the pool topless?  Other than the fact that it looks like a bomb went off on the left side of my chest because of the radiation damage it wouldn't be much different than the guys that swim in just shorts.

Isn't it crazy the things we think sometimes.

Merilee ...  Your post really got to me!  I'm so sorry you lost your brother!!!  I've had very similar conversations with myself in the mirror.  It took me awhile before I could look at myself without tearing up.  I think I'll add your "But I'm still here, MotherF***ER!" to my next conversation.