Full body scanners and foobs

FYI, I just returned from a 10 day, three flight trip and I had the wave scanner on two flights. I travel a lot for work and so far, in the past 12 flights, I have been 'selected' 8 times. I mean, come on. I am a skinny, 59 YO blondish woman. I guess they really don't profile, since I certainly don't fit a terrorist profile.

2Hands4me,

Thanks for the report about your recent trip.  I'm glad to hear that you didn't set off the metal detector, weren't "selected" to go through the scanner, and weren't subjected to a pat-down any closer than 8 inches from your crotch.  That's good news, I guess...

It's pretty common for passengers to be told, as you heard, that the radiation risks from the scanner are low.  You said, "We've found information that the radiation amount is the same as something like 400 X-Rays, and less than one dental X-Ray."

I didn't realize anyone was comparing the radiation from a scanner to what would be experienced from a dental X-ray.  When I have a dental X-ray, the assistant always covers my body with a lead apron, from neck to knees.  So, the amount of radiation my body is getting is actually much less than what the machine is emitting.  Since the backscatter X-ray machine is designed to irradiate the entire body -- both front and back -- trying to cover up a radiation-sensitive area would be counterproductive.  I've read that the estimates of radiation exposure from the backscatter machines is incorrect, because it was calculated as exposure through the entire volume of the body, when the backscatter rays really focus on the skin.  I've read that they penetrate approximately 1/4 inch, which sometimes produces an image of the bones of the lower legs, knees, and face (since those bones are close to the skin surface).  The fear among the skeptics is that, with so much radiation focused on the skin, people who are especially susceptible to skin cancer will be at high risk with multiple trips through the backscatter machines. Ironically, he article you cited provides a good discussion of the concerns about the backscatter radiation, including the refusal of TSA to reveal the actual numbers from the tests they commissioned.

And, alas, the image in the article you cited was not the image produced by a backscatter X-ray machine like the one used on your friend.  The image in that article was from a millimeter wave scanner, which does not use radiation at all.  Here's the millimeter wave image from the TSA's own website:  http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/mmw_large.jpg

Here is an example of a backscatter X-ray image from the TSA website:  http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/backscatter_large.jpg

See the bones of the shins and knees in those pics?  Critics of the imaging program who are knowledgeable about the backscatter machines argue that the backscatter picture provided on the TSA site (the one I've shown above) has been "censored".  The censorship was necessary, they say, because the real images are too detailed and graphic, and would be considered pornographic; so the TSA doctors them for public use. 

The image seen by the man or woman in that darkened room is supposedly much more realistic than what I've shown above.  Here is a picture of a backscatter image that the TSA had been using until recently as an example of what the backscatter machines do.   The TSA doesn't like this image to be used anymore.  They say that's because the face is shown, and the machines in the airports are supposed to blur the face.  Everything else shown in this image would be as seen by the man or woman in the viewing room:  http://www.scottosphere.org/images/backscatter-xray-scan.jpg

The fact that some unknown man might be sitting in a dark room by himself, studying "thousands" of images like this in a day's work, doesn't comfort me even a little bit.  BTW, he isn't really "alone" -- he is in direct contact via radio headset, with the person who directed you into the scanner and who will decide whether you need your body to be examined in more detail with an enhanced pat-down.  YMMV, though.  None of this seems to bother some people.

otter

I recently flew out of Boise ID where I had to go thru a full body scanner.  Apparently my implants showed up on the screen, and I was pulled off to the side for a full body pat down.  It was extremely humilating, the other passengers gawking at you as they walk by.  I felt like a criminal standing there in the airport with my arms and legs spread out while they did their search.  Don't get me wrong, I am all for airport security but I think they should have a more discreet way of handling the situation. 

According to the news here http://uk.news.yahoo.com/airport-staff-trial-body-scanner-122632855.html , Dublin airport are getting one on trial, for staff initially, voluntarily (??)

I found this sentence from the news report interesting: "The European Parliament last month agreed body scanners should be allowed at EU airports only if the health, dignity and privacy of passengers are protected." well i had been following this with interest and never saw anything about EU legislation.

Another report (source below) adds: "The European Parliament ruled scanners using ionising radiation should be prohibited in the EU.

A hospital consultant at Huddersfield Royal Infirmary in the UK was barred from boarding
his flight at Manchester Airport earlier in the summer after he refused to use the scanner, claiming he could be exposed to X-rays.

The DAA described it as a "wave" scanner and not an X-ray, but said potential health concerns will be discussed with the manufacturers.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-airport-staff-to-trial-body-scanner-518497.html#ixzz1Wcz9SqtE"

Interesting too that the airport's own website does have a breaking news section, linked from their home page, which is remarkably silent about the new development, directing you to this fluff instead: http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/11-07-19/New_Passenger_Security_Screening_Area_Opens_In_Terminal_1.aspx  How can they not have noticed??? A quick search with google shows that it's all over the Irish press...

Hi,

I just returned home from a weekend trip to Chicago..

I went through a full body scanner. No problem at all. I have at this point one tissue expander and one silcone implant.( gummy bear) So I think this happens to cover my two foobs..

I hope all others have the smae experience.

Hugs,

Francine

I've been through full body scanners a couple of times with foobs. Clear sailing and waved on without a second glance. Also through the regular scanners - no problem with foobs.

Bump.  It's the holiday season again, and I'm wondering if things have changed in the past year.  Some of us were pretty riled up back then.  In fact, I haven't flown commercially since June 2010.  We've put many thousands of miles on our car as an alternate means of getting across the country.

It did seem that some of the most recent posts to this thread indicated a less-obtrusive approach by TSA screeners, almost as if they'd been educated about breast forms and implants.  I wonder if that's true... 

otter

[P.S.:  One reason for reawakening this thread is to answer some of the questions that have come up on a similar thread in the DCIS forum.]

I don't think much has changed either. And we have also chosen to drive instead of fly when practical. Otherwise it's still pretty much dumb luck. I always opt out of the scanner, (no matter which type, I have serious concerns about their safety) and do not mention anything about prostheses. Based on what I've heard from others I know in similar situations, I am certain that more often than not the scanner will pick up the prostheses as an anomaly, possibly subjecting one to the patdown anyway. In those cases, the women have been subject to much more invasive patdowns and scrutiny of that area. By opting out of the scanner and not saying anything, aside from the generally uncomfortable nature of the patdown, there has been no additional invasion of privacy or scrutiny - I don't think they are feeling you hard enough in that area (at least they haven't been yet) to notice the difference between real breasts and prostheses. Just wear a good bra and top...My big concern is if we ever get to the point where you are no longer given the option to opt out. Aside from the privacy concerns, those machines are just way too new with absolutely no regulation for anyone to be saying they are safe.  Even the millimeter wave machine is basically the same technology as a microwave oven. Would you stick any part of your body into your microwave and turn it on?

I was researching check-in information for a relative who's flying today, and I found this web page on the TSA site.  It is supposed to be helpful to those of us who are wearing breast forms.  The original title of the page was, "What To Expect At The TSA Checkpoint if You Wear a Breast Prosthetic."  They've softened that a bit, to, "What To Expect At The TSA Checkpoint if You Are a Breast Cancer Survivor."  Must have run it by a focus group or something...

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/breast_prosthetic.shtm

Almost all the information on that page is just a repeat of the general information applicable to all screenings ("...you may request that the pat-down…take place in a private screening area"; "You may request that a traveling companion be present as a witness during the pat-down.…"; etc.). 

There are two statements under the heading "What Else Should I Know About the Screening Process" that are relevant to us:

--"You should neither be asked to nor agree to lift, remove, or raise any article of clothing to reveal your breast prosthesis, and you should not be asked to remove it."

--"If you decide to bring your prosthesis or mastectomy bra in your accessible property rather than wearing it, it will be allowed through the checkpoint after it is screened. The prosthesis or the mastectomy bra is not subject to the 3-1-1 rules normally applicable to liquids, gels, and aerosols because it is considered to be medically necessary.  You may also ask that your bag be screened in private."

This one made me shake my head:

--"You may tell the TSA security officer that you would greatly appreciate that your screening be handled as discreetly and quietly as possible."

Shouldn't that be true for all travelers???

otter

Just a positive word here, I have flown once in America and several times in Europe since my mastectomy, the foobs never brought any attention (microbead foobs) but the compression sleeve and gauntlet got attention and I needed those chemical sensors run all over my sleeve...

I did get a pat down, but it was 45 seconds long and no big deal.

Next time I fly I will put my compression stuff on after I move through security.

Thanks for the bump, cinnamonsmiles. 

I need to point out that the pics I posted upstream showing the millimeter wave images are no longer relevant.  Apparently, those machines now use a computer to produce a generic, cartoonish Gumby-figure that looks the same for everybody, instead of the uniquely personal image they used to generate for review:  http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/privacy.shtm

If there's no anomaly, there's not even an image -- just the word "OK" indicating to the screener that nothing was found.  If the scanner's software does find an anomaly, it's shown as a box or generic shape in a location on the Gumby figure that corresponds to its location in the scanner's image.  That signals the screener to know where to look during the ensuing patdown.

otter

I just returned from a trip to Seattle. When I arrived at San Diego Intl. Airport (home), I fully expected to be herded into the full-body scanner or have a fight with TSA. To my surprise, I didn't even see the scanner. I went through the normal scanner...no gropes, no wands,  no testing my hands or shoes for explosives...and was sent on my merry way. I thought it was a lucky fluke. At Seattle, same thing...no full body scanners, no questions, have a nice day and enjoy your flight!?!?! What's up? I'm usually pretty news savvy, but I don't remember hearing that they've discontinued using the scanners/body groping. Has anyone else flown recently and had a similar experience?

I have recently been through full body scanners on several occassions without any problems. I have 2 implants and nothing showed up. What surprised me though was 2 areas on my shoulders were highlighted on the screen. Turned out to be nothing.

Just got back from a trip to Baltimore for tatts with Vinnie. Went through the full body scanners without any problems or pat downs. Even had patches covering the tatts on the way back and still no concerns.

(Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive.)

Celtic_Spirit, I still have not flown commercially since June 2010, when a bunch of us from the May '08 Chemo group got together for a few days' retreat in Texas.  That was before the nationwide implementation of "enhanced screening" (full-body scans and detailed pat-downs) as a primary screening method.  So, I have no first-hand experience on what's happened lately.

I do, though, follow the news about TSA and especially the reports of nasty incidents involving security screenings.  I also am a "fan" of a Facebook page called "We Won't Fly," on which people post news reports and personal encounters.

I've not read anything about relaxation of screening procedures, except with regard to screenings of small children and elderly people (over 75, I think). I do keep expecting the TSA to become more customer-friendly, since, if they don't, Congress could threaten their funding (or is that wishful thinking?).  But, even if screening procedures were being relaxed, I doubt the TSA would announce it publicly.  They claim they need to keep things unpredictable, to keep the terrorists - and the passengers - guessing.  That's the excuse they give for the wide inconsistencies in protocols at different airports and even among checkpoints at a single airport.

I used to love to fly commercially.  I always arrived at the airport early, so I could absorb the sights and sounds of people traveling to distant places without having to rush to my own gate.  The route from check-in counter to gate took just a few minutes, even at my crazy-busy home airport (ATL).  Early arrival at the gate meant I could browse for books and newspapers, eat a few snacks, read a book, and watch people.

Now, of course, the whole experience is filled with ... well, it's as if passengers are presumed to be terrorists until the TSA can assure itself otherwise.  <sigh>

otter