stage III choosing alternative
Comments
-
Hello scuttlers, i am so sorry for your loss. May your brother in law rest in peace. I am sorry your family had to go through this. For me it has been an emotional rollercoaster. I am very well aware of personal choice and personal rights but i cannot watch someone i love not try to live. Life is precious to me and if my cousin loses her battle i do not want to say i should have spoken to her that is not who i am. I use my voice and that is on;y cause i care otherwise i would not waste my precious time and energy. I know that there will come a time that i will have to back off, but it is not now, now i must speak up.
-
Chiluvri i understand her fear as well believe me, but the fear of chemo should not be greater than the fear of the cancer. It's called survival and if chemo is her only chance she should take it.
-
Lago you read my msg wrong. I meant it is amazing that you have gone through so much but you are here, you are a survivor. i meant that chemo is not fun but you are here and that is amazing. It means that yes chemo is not fun but it's what makes you live. My husband went through hell with chemo sixteen years ago but he is alive he is here and yes! i think it's amazing.
-
Fufu, if your relative chooses not to do surgery or chemotherapy, IMO she should at least be guided by a holistic/alternative/integrative physician who specializes in oncology and uses advanced alternative treatments. The therapies they use, including those that involve chemo, do not breakdown the immune system, contaminate the blood or taxe the liver.
Recently I learned that many alternative doctors reverse cancer without surgery. See Dr. Burton Goldberg Cancer Interview - www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOQehHTaFwE . He was one of the doctors that featured in Knock Out. He cured his own cancers. But your relative is stage 3, and that makes me a little nervous. She should at least have an ultra sound to see if the tumor is in fact shrinking and a full body thermogram. None of these tests are invasive.
-
thank you pricess123, i appreciate all the info you have provided and i will definately try to convince her to take your advice. And yes her stage makes me nervous as well, i will read up on the thermogram but if im not mistaken it does not detect tumors does it?
-
Mammograms only look at anatomical changes in the breast, as they detect masses or lumps in the breast tissue. Meanwhile, a cancerous tumor has been growing 8-10 years before it is big enough and dense enough to be detected by mammography.
By the time a tumor becomes the size of a pin head, which is nearly two years into its growth, it can no longer be sustained by the normal blood supply and so it develops its own. The development of that blood supply is called angiogenesis.
Initially developed by the military, thermography is the only technology available that can detect angiogenesis. A tumor at this early stage cannot be detected by mammography or any other technology.
Relatively new to Canada and the US, thermography is widely used in Europe.
Breast Cancer Screening using Thermography ( thermal imaging technology )
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hieVRtcb7Y
There is thread in the Alternative Forum called "Breast Thermography". It's only two pages. There was a women who was able to catch her thyroid cancer extremely early because she did a full body thermogram. That made me a believer. PM her to get more info.
-
Well Fufu if she won't budge, then you have to support her and not fight about it, but do know that if she doesn't change her mind, you will almost certainly lose her.
Some people, and some people here, are incredibly terrified of chemo and no wonder. You can read all the worst of the worst of things that can happen to you, right here on these boards.
Well I did 7 months of difficult chemos and didn't throw up once. Laughed every day. Had many nice moments. It was not dramatic. It was not wrenching. You don't have to suffer - I was annoyed, and tired quite a bit but essentially, it was no worries. And that's the other coin, and people who don't have major problems with it and there are many of us.
It's sure not easy, but really...it was ok. And it made my cancer go away.
-
Princess mammograms don't always pick up the tumor. Also if a tumor is fast growing it can be there for less time. My tumor wasn't spotted till it was 6.5cm (granted I do believe it should have been spotted a year earlier but that's another story). I had very dense breast tissue. Also, because I had a very fast growing tumor my BS said it had been there only for 4 years. I also had LCIS in the other breast that the mammo and US didn't dedect (which is pretty typical from what I read ). Only the MRI spotted it.
Fufu I know what you meant. Just wanted to let you know that getting through chemo isn't such an amazing feat. So many people get through chemo and are still here. I'm sure your husband did go through hell 16 years ago. They have much better meds now to combat a lot of the SE.
I have seen both my grandmothers (colon, lymphoma) pass away from cancer as well as MIL (lung) a few years before me. Makes you a lot less scared of chemo and more scared of the outcome without it. My MIL was in her mid 80's so chemo wasn't an option for her.They tried a small dose but she couldn't handle it.
-
none of us want to do chemo but we do.. (most of us still typing).. Gosh i wish you luck.. she has a child.
Big hugs and i hope the power to persuade coming from KS.
-
fufu: Your friend has made a decision that she believes is in her best interests. Changing her diet and lifestyle is not a bad thing. That is a very important part of conquering cancer. I would try to focus on one thing with your friend. Try encouraging her to consider getting the surgery to remove the tumor. With that, she might have a fighting chance to beat the odds. Even the most devoted alternative physicians believe that if a tumor can be removed by surgery, it should be done. This gives the immune system the power to fight off the cancer that has possibly invaded other parts of the body. If she refuses, then you must give her support and comfort so that she can fight this disease in her own way, without distractions.
-
lago, I agree mammograms are not always reliable. I am planning on using digital breast tomosynthesis instead. It overcomes the limitations of a mammography. The big problem in mammography is that 3D anatomical information is projected into a 2D image plane, limiting the ability to detect certain cancers. What I'm going to do, from now on, is first thermographs, if suspicious, then breast ultrasound or MRI, if suspicious, then breast tomosynthesis.
-
Lord knows we all go through so much right after a BC dx....it changes a person. No wonder she is scared with what happened to your mom and aunt. The "big C's of death" in many people's mind...cancer & chemo but they're not. Chemo wasn't a cake walk but I flew from Hawaii to N. Carolina the day I infused round 4 of AC. I don't say this bragging, I'm showing you it's tolerable and doable. My first round of each kind was rough because you have to find what meds work for you. I had to put a motion sickness patch behind my ear while on AC and that helped so much. Everyone is different and so are the chemo and meds that work for them but she has to be willing to try it & find her combo. It sounds like she has chose her path whether it's wrong or right...it's her's....I just hope it's not too late if she changes her mind later. This breaks my heart because I saw how chemo worked for me & how it could for her, my prayers are with ya'll. Could you print this pages out or other pages in this forum and send her? She might not be willing to log on here but maybe willing to read stuff if put in front of her.
-
Jennyboog you are so right. My Avatar is 2 weeks after my 4th Taxotere/Carboplatin/Herceptin at my nieces Bat Mitzvah in my wig. I certainly don't look like death. Actually my onc would tell me how great I look everytime she saw me. When I saw her in April (3 months post final treatment) she "Don't you look like the picture of health). I think I looked worse before surgery/chemo/reconstruction because I was so stressed out from the news and not knowing what to expect.
The thought of this is much much worse than the actual treatment by about 500%. At least it was for me.
-
Fufu
Your cousin seems to think that her mother died of chemotherapy. No wonder she is so terrified. Don't you imagine she died from the cancer itself.? I would ask her oncologist the mortality rate from chemo. I would guess it is incredible small. I found chemo very misserable, but I did work throughout most of chemo. For me, the fatigue was the worst side effect. However, I want to live. The idea that an enema would cure cancer seems ridiculous and also TERRIFYING. I'm sure your cousin doesn't wish to suffer and die. Where is the clinical (not antidotal) data showing this therapy works? Perhaps your cousin would at least be willing to do arimidex or tamoxifen if she is estrogen positive. Surgery, radiation and hormonal therapy would at least give her some chance of not dying from this disease.
Elizabeth
-
I believe, I could be remembering this wrong that 1% of people get an infection during chemo and 0.5% die from the infection during chemo... Compared to her comparable mortality risk, I would say its worth it. And that is from chemo for all ages, including the really young or old who are more immune compromised than your average person
My onc told us this like 2 or 3 weeks ago, so feel free to correct me, but I believe its what she said. -
Elizabeth my mother and my aunt (my cousin's mother) died of the chemotherapy. they both had hodgkins lymphoma, they were both treated at the same time and they both died of lung toxicity three days apart. It was one of the chemo agents used called bleomycin, it was a one percent chance of dying from lung toxicity. It was a terrible experience for our family that has scarred all family members so yeah! the fear is real.
-
I am truly sooooooooo overwhelmed by all your responses. I don't know any of you but you are all taking the time to answer me and provide me with advice or information, i cannot thank you all enough.
-
That would definately be something for her to discuss with the oncologist, its definately a scary concept of dying from the chemo, BUT she should still seek one or two or even 3 different medical opinions about her specific chances of having a reaction to the chemo. She may not be on the same chemo as your moms' were... I am new to this, but I can definately understand how difficult it would be for her. If chemo is that scary try to get her to at least get the cancer removed. I did, I had a single mastectomy on my right side and I was cuddling my son the day after.... and holding him on the other side within a week or so. I am a little over three weeks out and I can now do almost everything I could before! I just have a little more range of motion to get back.
Cancer is basically an overgrowth of cells, every single person has microscopic little cancers but its our immune systems job to step in an remove or fix the cancers. Our bodies have many systematic redundancies to make sure these overgrowths don't happy, but when things get miswired and the redundancies don't work we get the microscopic cancers. When the immune system malfunctions our cancers get out of control. I have lived a very holistic low chemical green lifestyle for almost 3 years now and it did not prevent my cancer from getting out of control. We eat organic, use all VOC free products ect.... and I still had a 9x6x5cm tumor stage 3 agressice with 5lymphs involved
Goodluck with whatever happens, I will send good mojo your way
Again,
-
many holistic/natural approach discussions feel scans that are xray/nuclear based are 'invasive' maybe she would consider an mri which is neither and might be acceptable to her ... might be worth a try ...
it is tough to disagree with someone's decisions and to love them and not know what to do ... hoping you find a way to walk with her the path she chooses but ultimately she is the one that has to walk the bc path .... i chose 'conventional' treatment and glad i did but there were people who tried very hard to convince me to go the 'alternative' route and there will always be a bit of a strain in our relationship because they pushed too hard rather than just presenting their ideas ....
i wish you both the best of luck !
-
I have just finished reading this whole thread and all I can say is that I hope she comes to her senses. I think it is really irresponsible with a child and family not to even consider conventional treatment and put her trust in people without even an MD. Fufu, you must be so disappointed and frustrated. As almost everyone here has said, chemo is doable. I worked full-time, but took off on chemo day (Friday) and had the weekends to recover. I had an almost 10 cm tumor removed with surgery. I just can't imagine being her age and not wanting to fight with every tool available in the arsenal. I hope she will come around.
-
fufu I can understand your friend's fear of chemo. I watched two of my friends completely lose their quality of life and ultimately die from starvation because they couldn't eat anything. They were both getting chemo right up until about a week before their death. One had lung cancer and one had pancreatic cancer, so the prognosis was poor, and chemo was at best a long shot for both of them. My boyfriend's sister has small cell lung cancer and she is taking chemo right now. So far, she is handling it ok and has actually gained weight, so she must be eating fine. I think the key is to keep up your nutrition, and like princess said above, have a complementary, naturopathic doctor working with the oncologist to counter balance any ill effects.
-
I could have been your cousin a year ago. My mantra was why would I choose to make myself physically sick? I may have cancer but I feel great right now. Unlike her, I did not refuse surgery, but it was touch and go up to my first infusion. I was both terribly afraid of the side effects I'd both witnessed in my relatives and read about. I addition, I believe substantially depressed. Talk therapy for the depression and fear are completely compatible with a holistic lifestyle. I'd encourage her to start seeing a therapist who works with cancer patients and see what develops.
-
Hello ladies, So i spoke to my cousin and of course she did not want to hear anything but i wouldn't have it so i continued to speak and she finally told me that i am dark energy, lol and she didn't wanna hear anything else. I am not done with her. I will continue to use my voice (as nobody else in the family is) even if it means her tossing me to the curb, lol. I must take my chances and am fully aware of the consequences.
-
Shelleyj43, hope she comes to her senses you say, oh my i have been praying for that for two months now. You must understand that in her mind she is not being selfish and she is doing the right thing for herself and her child. In her mind eating wheatgrass and doing enemas is curing her she is even convinced that her tumor has shrank just by feeling it. She even attempted to tell me (just a little while ago) that she is doing chemo every single day (meaning her lifestyle change, to her that's chemo). And as i said earlier she said that i am "dark energy", lol. I hope to God that a little bit of what i said was heard.
-
I wouldn't call you "dark energy" because you have her best interests at heart; however, from her perspective, she is telling you that you are interfearing with her ability to focus on healing her disease. If you continue to pursue this path, my guess is she will cut you off and have nothing further to do with you, and then you will have no chance whatsoever to give her the love and support she needs. You don't have to agree with her choice of treatment to be there for her and keep her in your prayers.
-
fufu,ITA agree with Kaara. I think you need to give her some space. If she said that you are "dark energy" that's a warning that if you keep pushing, she will cut you out of her life.
I've have to do that to close relatives who crossed the line and tried to control my life. They laughed behind my back. I didn't need a crystal ball to see that. Their patronizing tone said it all.
Looking back, I realize that I outgrew them, and it was time anyway for me to make space for supportive people, who think on my level (or higher), to enter my life. So I'd leave her in God's hands and still stay in touch (not every day), without contributing to her stress or you may lose her for good.
-
Hi Kaara, i am completely aware of what she i telling me, though the one thing that makes it harder is that she is not even willing to listen, but like i told her she has to because i listen to her, because i listen to what she is eating and what she is doing and what she believes in so she has to at least give me some time and listen to me. And yes she might cut me off but honestly it's a chance i am willing to take. That is why everyone is afraid to give their opinion cause they are afraid of being cut off, not me i'm not afraid i want her to go talk to her doctors and then make her decision. She got preliminary results and then decided to leave for three weeks off to a holistic health center and still has not gone back to get the final results. She has not even educated herself on her disease.All i want is for her to make her decision after she has all the facts, then i will accept her decision but will never ever agree with it. Life is too precious and yeah! sometimes we have to put up the fight of our lives and i am not saying it's gonna be easy, i have lived it once too many believe me.
-
fufu - I dont have any great wisdom or stories to tell you, but I wanted you to know that I will pray God gives you the wisdom to know what to do. I will also pray that she changes her mind. I'm sure you are not the only person who is encouraging her to seek other treatment. Your words might just be a seed of information and concern that God is using along with others to help her change her mind. God Bless!
-
fufu, I admire you for your principled stand in doing what you believe to be right, regardless of the consequences to yourself.
I am just thinking that in this type of situation where you are trying to convince someone of something, effective communication of the message plays an important role. I am not an expert at this but to some degree I believe you have to match your communication style to hers. Really think about her communication style. Rather than being confrontational, start with empathy, acknowledging her fears, beliefs and values then sharing your own beliefs and fears, appealing to her values and giving her some information to read, maybe from this site. Even matching body language can play a part. Would she read a written communication such as a letter?
You seem like a smart lady so you may have already communicated in this way but I just thought I would throw it out there as something for you to think more about. Maybe you can talk with someone who is an expert communicator to get some tips.
You have probably heard the saying that if you keep doing the same thing in the same way you get the same result. So maybe it is time to take a different approach.
As another poster said, even if you could get her to do the other treatments apart from chemo, combined with the alternative treatments, it would give her a better chance.
What messages is she getting from others in her life? If they are supportive of her choice it will be harder for you to influence her.
Ultimately, there is only so much you can do and at some point you will feel you have done everything you can and will need to move on for your own sanity. -
Never heard of bleomycin being used for BC. Perhaps the family genetics has a susceptibility to it.
I am thinking she was told by the "place she went" to "get rid of dark energy" in her life, that it is toxic. I know you are aware of the possibilities. Sometimes being right is not the "right thing to do"; sometimes you need to just love her and accept her choices. I do not agree with her choices, but having her slam the door to all communication may be worse than her not listening.
Really hope she gets back to find out exactly what she is living with, and some ideas of how it can be treated. (If she has not been totally brainwashed by her three week excursion into the ....)
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team