So… stage 3 and grade 1.5

TectonicShift
TectonicShift Member Posts: 752

Yes, that's right, the pathologists have graded me 1.5! I'm a mix of grade 1 and grade 2.

I'm TERRIFIED chemo won't work on me. My onc says 10% to 30% effective. I can't believe I'm actually jealous of you grade 3 girls who get a chance at total pathologic response. Ha! 

Also scary... grade 1.5 is slower and less aggressive but more likely to have late recurrence, so I fear I'll never be able to relax.

Main tumor was 4.1 cm. Also a DCIS and LCIS in the same area. Three macro mets (> 2mm cancer) in the three nodes they took out with the lumpectomy. One node was 1.7 cm and the cancer was busting out of it, with blood vessel involvement. So they went back in last week, did a mastectomy and took a chunk of tissue aimed at all level 1 and level 2 nodes. Still waiting on the path report from that. 

There are no guarantees, of course, but are there any longterm survivors out there of Stage 3 with Grade 1 or 1.5  (ER+/PR+ HER-) ?   If so, can you tell me your chemo/rads regimen? My onc is talking about 4xAC and 4xTaxol every other week, and then rads, and of course Tamoxifen. But is it enough? I would love to know why some people get 12 weekly Taxol. And why some people get those other drugs I see mentioned.

I'm sick with worry about going through chemo with little chance of it helping me. 

Thanks in advance and best wishes to everyone.

Edited to add:  my tumor was not like a round hard tumor. It was "stellate" and not at all palpable even though it was pretty close to my skin. The onc said he thought neoadjuvant would just make it into "Swiss cheese"

Comments

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Thank you so much, Sherri. I'm so happy to hear your chemo worked on your grade 1 tumor. When I get down, I go look for your posts, and whatever you write it always makes me feel better. Are you also on aspirin regimen? When I asked my onc what I can do on my end to help myself, he said "exercise, low-fat diet, and aspirin." I immediately googled aspirin and breast cancer and was so surprised it appears to really affect rate of recurrence! I just popped one a couple minutes ago. Hope it's okay five days after mastectomy.Smile

  • KerryMac
    KerryMac Member Posts: 3,529
    edited November 2011

    Hi posy, just want to add my welcome as well.

     You know, I think it is normal to worry about whether or not the treatment you get will "work". I am in Canada and got a different Chemo than a lot of people here (FEC-T). I still stress (three years later) about if I should have done another type. But at the end of the day, you just have to make a decision, and be at peace with it. Hopefully one day they will be able to test each of our unique pathologies, and give us far more targeted treatment, but until then we just get bombarded with everything!

    The good thing about being Stage Three is you do get everything thrown at you, and you take it happily! So, my thinking is if the chemo didn't work, the rads did, if they didn't work, the Arimidex will.

    There are things you can do for yourself too - exercise being major (50% reduction in reoccurance)  So, try and get 30 minutes in a day! I also take aspirin and Vit D.

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Thanks, Kerry. Thank so much for replying. Can I ask about the Zometa? Is that to ward off bone mets or something like that? Is that only available in Canada or do American women get that too? 

    My onc wants me to be in a double-blind trial called D-Care.  http://www.lbbc.org/Understanding-Breast-Cancer/Clinical-Trials-Research-Studies/Featured-Clinical-Trials/D-CARE-Clinical-Trial

    But the trouble is I don't want the placebo, I want the drug!  Any drug that might help ward off bone mets!

  • KerryMac
    KerryMac Member Posts: 3,529
    edited November 2011

    Looks like a great trial! But yep, you'd want to get the drug ;-)

    If you can get your Onc to give it to you anyway, you could just go that route. I had to work on my Onc a bit to get Zometa and I`m getting it off label, but I hope it is giving me some protection. At the very least it is hopefully stopping my bones from completely crumbling.

  • AnacortesGirl
    AnacortesGirl Member Posts: 1,758
    edited November 2011

    posy1 -

    Don't give up hope just because you are grade 1.5!  I'm a grade 3 and didn't have any response to neo-adjuvant chemo.  But here I am NED (no evidence of disease)! 

    I hope you can tolerate the aspirin and keep on taking it.  I ran into stomach issues so it was more important to not take it.  Unfortunately the Azure trial results killed my opportunity for staying on Zometa (Aetna won't pay for it) but if yoy can get on a trial then I would go for it.

    You'll do fine! You have the right attitude!

  • fredntan
    fredntan Member Posts: 1,821
    edited November 2011

    i'm in same boat pretty much as you. just finished round threee of AC-Its really not as bad as my mind was making it out to me. sometimes my mind wanders and thinks the worst-don't let yourself do that. I plan on taking up running when I'm all recovered. and changing my diet even more. these are things we can control. Don't let the worry ruin the life you have. you'll and I will get through this.

    Ativan has helped me a lot. I've sought and found many survivors. I know one she's 25 years out. dx at 40 on her birthday. 

  • jennyboog
    jennyboog Member Posts: 1,322
    edited November 2011

    Hey Posey, I'm sorry you're here with us.  Look at it this way, you're almost a 1 which chemo has worked on and you're almost a 2 which chemo has worked on....so, why wouldn't chemo work for you, never give up hope.  I was IIIc, IDC and IBC, grade 2 and I had successful neoadj. chemo.  I never did know how many LN were infected (report said several) and at my ALND only 4 LN's had  residual cancer in them.  I saw my IBC go away and I saw my tumor shrink during chemo.  I did ACx4 and taxoterex4 (every 3 wks), chemo is rough at times but is tolerable with the help of the meds they'll give you.  I did 35 rads, did my ooph and now on Aromasin.  I just hit my year out in July and I'm doing great.  Go to the +5 years topic at the top of the III forum, it's full of ladies who have dealt with BC and have moved on...you will too.  Come here often we're here for you.

  • LindaLou53
    LindaLou53 Member Posts: 929
    edited November 2011

    Posey hang in there!  It's very scary early on in a new diagnosis but you have lots of reason to be hopeful for a full future ahead of you!  With your ER+/PR+ status you should benefit from both chemo and hormonal meds.

    I had a stage IIIC Invasive Lobular which was a grade 1 (score of 5 on the Nottingham scale so almost a grade 2)  I had my bilateral mastectomies first, then 6 rounds of Taxotere/Xeloda chemo every 21 days, and then 6 weeks of 3 field radiation.  All 23 nodes removed were positive for cancer including  nodes that had already ruptured.  I was ER+ 95%, PR- 2% and Her2-.  I just celebrated 6 years NED this week from my date of diagnosis in Nov 2005.

    The AC/Taxol chemo regime is a time tested, proven effective first line treatment. When I had a Stage IIA IDC breast cancer in 2000 (unrelated to my 2005 IIIC new primary BC in the other breast) I received the AC/Taxol treatment then.  It completely got rid of any signs of the first BC.  They were unable to give me the same chemo twice so that is why I had the Taxotere/Xeloda for the second BC diagnosis.  I also was on Zometa infusions for 5 years. I have been on Aromasin for 5.5 years and plan to continue it indefinitely.

    The Denosumab trial you mentioned sounds like a good one. When you get the results of your final path report you will want to discuss all the treatment options with your oncologist.  I know chemo is scary but actually it was not nearly as bad as I was fearing it would be.  I believe it IS an important treatment option anytime you have positive nodes.  Chemo and Hormonal meds are "Systemic" treatments, where surgery and radiation are only "Local" treatments.  Systemic treatments are very important to treat any cancer cells that may have spread from the original tumor site. 

    You have come to the right place for good information and encouragement.  Many, many ladies here truly understand what you are going through and can help you through the process.  Take it one day at a time and please keep us updated on how you are coming along! 

    Best Wishes,

    Linda

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Thank you, Linda, Jenny, Fran, Anacortes! 

    Yes, the Denosumab trial sounds good. But I sort of wish I was going to be in the Metformin trial that people are talking about. I guess you can only be in one trial. 

    I will do aspirin, vitamin D and calcium, turmeric, coenzyme Q10, and lots of veggies and lots of exercise once my chemo is over. 

    Still not sure if I will do chemo/rads at MGH or Dana Farber. I have appointments at both. 

    I hope the fear subsides at some point because I'll go crazy if I have to live the rest of my life waiting to see if I get mets. I know I shouldn't be thinking that way but I sort of can't help it. Everyone in my inner circle tells me not to let the dark thoughts even enter my mind. Stay positive and assume I will beat it. But it's hard.....  Is that normal? 

  • MelG
    MelG Member Posts: 23
    edited November 2011

    Hi Posy,

    Stage 3, Grade 1, one large positive lymph node here (score 5 on the Nottingham scale).   I just passed 8 years in July.   I had a mastectomy (7.5cm tumour), six rounds of CAF followed by chest wall radiation and 3 years of Tamoxifen.   I had a stellate tumour also although it did present finally as a lump (I had small breasts).

    I did chemo and was told afterwards it conferred a 3% survival advantage based on my pathology.  I was shocked and probably wouldn't have done it if I had known this beforehand.  However, now I'm glad I did!  10 - 30% effective sounds wonderful!  When all's said and done, I am now over eight years out with no further problems, so I just assume my treatment was effective. 

    Being low grade and ER+ are both great.  I do remember the terror of being Stage 3 very well, this does pass but it takes some time.   There are many, many Stage 3 women who have been successfully treated.  There is no reason why you can't be one of them.

    Take care

    Love Mel

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Thanks, Mel. I was kind of skeptical when he said 10%-30% but I think it's because I had all three sentinel nodes full of cancer (and who knows how many axillary?) so it's likely to be circulating in my body. I don't know that's just my guess.

    In your case, with just one node positive, it was probably so unlikely you had or would have systemic spread so that that's why the benefit was given at 3%. Very unlikely to help prevent spread because very unlikely to have spread!  

    But thank you for checking in with me. I'm only one month out from diagnosis and five days from the mx and yet to start the chemo. What is CAF exactly?

    Cheers! 

  • lkc
    lkc Member Posts: 1,203
    edited November 2011

    Hi {Posy, I had 12 pos nodes, my sentinel node was extracapsulated with tumor as was my primary  axillary node. I was grade 2, stage IIIC. That was then , this is now 6.5 yrs ago and All's well!

    Initial days are  scary, but we've all been there and can help you. Try to take one day at a time and keep in mind there are many of us out there doing great,

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Thank you so much, Linda. Do you find yourself a little less scared each year that passes? 

    Do you have scans every year? Do you worry about aches and pains all the time?

  • AnacortesGirl
    AnacortesGirl Member Posts: 1,758
    edited November 2011

    Posy,

    Yes, it is very normal to be concerned about mets.  Worry is the normal process we go through when given a cancer dx.  Your mind needs to work through a lot of things.  Including that this is, if left untreated, a life threatening illness.  But because of your treatment that your about to start you will be able to get the cancer out of your body and it will give you many, many more years ahead.

    You are about to start on a long road.  The road takes you to Chemo City, Surgery Village and Radiationville.  You've been through surgery so one stop on the road is done.  Focus on chemo for now.  Put faith into the chemo that it will do the job; there is no reason to believe otherwise.  When you've done all those it would be a good time to get that scan and get the wonderful news of being NED (no evidence of disease). 

    Even after my chemo I had extracapular nodes.  But I believe radiation zapped whatever might have been left.  Being able to take hormonal drugs everyday gives me the confidence to know that I'm keeping the cancer at bay and hopefully weakening it enough that my natural immune system will keep it away.

    So feel free to worry some.  Just don't let it overtake your life.  Keep asking questions just like you've been doing.  Some answers don't pertain but I found the information so very helpful!

  • lkc
    lkc Member Posts: 1,203
    edited November 2011

    Hi Posy Happy Thanksgiving . Yes I  did worry about the aches and pains initially and absolutely with time the fear diminishes.

    It's all normal to be anxious, but you will be ok. Life has resumed to a wonderful new normal for me.

    I rarely think about BC, ( when in the early days I was consumed by it.)

    I come here to offer support and to let newbies know there is alot of us not just surviving but really

    thriving!

  • lkc
    lkc Member Posts: 1,203
    edited November 2011

    oops I forgot to add, that my onc wanted me to have yrly PETS, which made me crazy, but I did get them.

    Stopped at 5 years.

  • momand2kids
    momand2kids Member Posts: 1,508
    edited November 2011

    Posy

    I sent you a pm--- good to see you back and these wise women have given you lots of great advice...I had A/C-- it was doable...you will get through this.... and the er/pr+ means you have even more weapons in the arsenal... I had a Farber onc who totally believed that the hormonal therapy was everything..... I just met with her for my 3 year visit and she still feels that way (I was trying to weasel my way out of the drugs!!!)....

    I am with lkc--- as times goes on, it really will subside--but you are right at the beginning of the road-- you have to put your helmet on and drive...... but remember, this too will pass.....

     good luck at MGH or Farber--I don't think you can go wrong with either.  My bf was treated at MGH and was very happy, I was at the Farber and very happy---- 

    please stay in touch

    best

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Thank you so much, everyone. You are so kind to take time on Thanksgiving to answer my post.

    Question: Does anyone know or has anyone heard whether there is a correlation between chemo side effects and efficacy of chemo (outcomes)? I know there is a correlation between Tamoxifen side effects and outcomes. I've just been wondering if I should welcome the chemo side effects as a sign that it's working. All the books I have -- Susan Love's book and some others  -- don't really say.

    Sending happy Thanksgiving weekend wishes from Boston! 

  • MelG
    MelG Member Posts: 23
    edited November 2011

    Hi Posy

    "Combination chemotherapy with CMF or CAF has been commonly used as a first-line chemotherapy for recurrent and advanced breast cancer. The clinical efficacy of CAF chemotherapy was evaluated on advanced and recurrent breast cancer. It is considered to be one of the most useful treatments. CAF chemotherapy comprises of three drugs which include cyclophosphamide, Adriamycin (doxorubicin) and fluorouracil (5FU)."

    (Just lifted that off the Net so I don't confuse you with my dodgy spelling :-)   I found chemo much easier that I'd feared.  A few side-effects but not too bad.

    Best of luck - you have a bit of a journey ahead, but you *will* come out the other side.  

    Love Mel

  • momand2kids
    momand2kids Member Posts: 1,508
    edited November 2011

    I am not sure if there is a  correlation betwen side effects and efficacy in chemotherapy.  It seems that everyone has some sort of chemo side effects.  Some of us get more or less than others.   I have heard that the side effects of the hormonal drugs may have some relationship to "working" but I am not sure that is true... I am not sure they know.

    I think the fear of chemo is so much worse than the reality.  I was absolutely terrified and I can still recall the day I started (jan 16, 2009) and how frightened I was.  8 weeks later, it was over... I can barely remember it now.  

    this is a scary time.... I agree with Mel-you will come out the other side.... it's true.  

  • AnacortesGirl
    AnacortesGirl Member Posts: 1,758
    edited November 2011

    My onc doesn't believe there is a correlation between the efficacy of chemo and SEs.  That would make sense to me since I had plenty of SEs but no reponse.  On the other hand, the hormonal therapy is to make the estrogen useless or stop the production of it. Then it would make sense that the SEs we get from lack of estrogen indicate the hormonal is working.

  • TectonicShift
    TectonicShift Member Posts: 752
    edited March 2013

    Anybody dx'd with stage 3 get the oncotype dx score?

    I get the feeling my onc doesn't want to order it because there's no question I need chemo. But I'd sort of like to get it anyway - to know everything I can about my cancer 

  • jennyboog
    jennyboog Member Posts: 1,322
    edited November 2011

    I didn't do it...onc said it was for ladies at a lower stage...there was no doubt that I had to have MX and chemo but I was still curious as to what mine would have been, it wouldn't have changed anything though.

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