WHY would I put myself through this?

I didn't have any horrible side effects from TCH. I went to work, I raised my kids, I painted my nails pink.

Some people get bad SEs and most don't.  The ones who get the bad SEs tend to post more than the ones who don't, since human nature seems to be about complaining.

You seem to struggle with every step of your treatment, but nobody can tell you what to do. 

Edit:  I posted this before seeing her desire to commit suicide.  I cannot advocate that and nothing in my post was meant to encourage that.  I only meant that most people don't have side effects from chemo that you are anticipating.

I strongly recommend that you get some help for your depression.  Whether it was caused by cancer or something else going on in your life, none of us are equipped to help you with that.  Most people do find that that once their suicidal ideation goes away, they are glad to have lived.  I hope you find that as well. 

Patmom - the reason chemo is offered to patients with only 6mm cancers is because it is HER2+ve and herceptin is only given with chemo. We are not bullying her, we are people who had HER2+ve cancers and know how serious it is. I don't like reading posts from someone who had only 2mm invasive HER2 and was denied herceptin and now has mets in less than 1 year. Yes, some end up Stage IV but a lot don't, we all know that there is no guarrantee but at least we have done everything we can.

Sue

((((((((((((Tarry)))))))))))))

I wasn't going to post in this thread - it's really far from my area of expertise - but I want to comment on the example that's been raised several times of someone having a 2mm HER2+ tumor and "being denied" Herceptin. 

First, I agree that HER2+ status is the big factor at play here.  A 6mm IDC tumor that is HER2- would usually not warrant chemo, although of course a high score on the Oncotype test could change that.  But generally someone with an ER+, PR+, HER2- 6mm tumor probably won't face a recommendation of chemo from her doctors.  

With HER2+, it's different.  The NCCN treatment guidelines suggest that chemo and Herceptin be considered for HER2+ tumors that are >5mm in size.  So a 6mm tumor is over that 'line in the sand' and therefore most oncologists would recommend these treatments.  From what I've read on this board, it seems that many oncologists recommend chemo & Herceptin for HER2+ tumors that are even smaller than 5mm, probably because HER2+ cancers are considered so aggressive and because the chemo/Herceptin combination is so effective.  But 2mm HER2+ cancers? It's rarely recommended to women with 2mm HER2+ tumors that they get chemo and Herceptin.  If you read the "Micro-invasive DCIS that is HER2 positive" forum on this board, you'll see that most women with 1mm and 2mm (and even 3mm) HER2+ tumors usually don't get these treatments. That is consistent with the current treatment guidelines based on the research that is currently available. This isn't to say that there is no risk of mets for these women, but treatment guidelines are developed based on an assessment of the risks from the disease vs. the risks from the treatments.  A treatment is not recommended when the risks from treatment outweigh the risks of the disease - and I'm guessing that this may be the reason why chemo and Herceptin are not offered to women with such small HER2+ tumors. Therefore the example of a woman with a 2mm HER2+ who developed mets is a good example to show how serious HER2+ cancers can be, but the fact that chemo and Herceptin weren't offered to this patient is not unusual - it's the norm.

As someone with microinvasive DCIS, I wanted to clarify this because I don't want women with HER2+ microinvasions and tiny tiny tumors to worry that they should have gotten chemo and Herceptin.  Today that this not the treatment standard.

TheLadyGrey, good to see you here and glad to know that you have the support and care that you need to handle the depression.  

LadyGrey, THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES TO CHEMO! It isn't a matter of doing chemo or nothing at all.  Many here will tell you that and they have good intentions but its just simply not true.  We have choices, especially at our stage in the game.  Once our bodies have been damaged by these "treatments", our choices become much more limited.  As Evebarry said, I am currently taking alternative treatments and I have experienced none of the side effects you mentioned.  I have found that women who have an initial gut reaction like you and I regarding chemo, have often already set their path in motion.  Listen to your gut, your intuition, your spiritual self...whatever you want to call it.  My motto has become "educate before you medicate".  Know your choices and become as educated as you can in what they mean for you.  Dont let ANYONE tell you that you have to get treatment tomorrow.  Your cancer has been growing in you for years.  Any doctor will tell you that.  Therefore, tomorrow is just another day.  Research, research, research and most of all, dont let fear guide you.  Fear paralyzes and debilitates.  It takes all rational thought out of the equation.  Its normal to fear this diagnosis, we all go through that stage and I have found that the only answer to fear is education.  Learn what your options are.  Then you can make the right decision for YOU.  There are many here who have done the usual and customary treatments when it comes to cancer.  That doesn't mean it's our only option or even the right option for US.  It breaks my heart when I see women go through the initial fear that each and everyone of us do but there is hope beyond what everyone will have you believe.  It took me a while to get past the fear but I have taken control and feel that I am now in charge.  I have taken the bull by the horns and I'm gonna ride it with all I have.  I am in control, not my doctor's "treatments" and there is nothing more healing than that knowledge.  It sounds like you are in a dark place right now and I know how you feel, we've all been there.  Please PM me if you just need to talk.  I want to help.

Beesie - I know that chemo/herceptin is not standard treatment for <5mm tumours. I used that example to show that such a small tumour can lead to Stage IV. The lady in question did have chemo though. I used the word denied because that was the protocol in her country of residence - maybe I should have said she was not offered herceptin. Maybe smaller tumours should be given herceptin, maybe by itself - that wouldn't hurt - a new study?

Sue

impositive - you said "Many here will tell you that and they have good intentions but its just simply not true" - I resent you saying that - you are totally wrong. Do you think we are all being paid by the drug companies or something???? None of us who had chemo wanted to have to have it. Many of us have done lots of research into proven treatments and were smart enough not get sucked in by unproven alternative treatments. All we are doing is stating the facts. I, for one, do care a lot when I see women struggle with their choices - I don't want to see them end up stage IV because they had Vit C infusions (for example) instead of herceptin or straight out refused treatment because they were scared of possible side effects.

LadyGrey, I almost quit chemo after my first treatment. I didn't think I could do it...but somehow I found the strength to continue. And the interesting thing is, none of the other rounds (8 total) were nearly as bad as the first.

Here's an idea for you: try one round. Quit if it doesn't suit you, continue if you can muster the strength. Many do not have the side effects you are concerned about, and there is only one way to know how your body will react. Best wishes to you.

LadyGrey - I would add to BlueCowGirls post - try 2 - seeing the first is probably the worst, 2 would hopefully show you the SE's can be treated.

((((((HUGS)))))))

Sue

Can't remember if I've mentioned this already but it's certainly worth repeating:

You don't have to be brave - you just have to show up!

With love to a sister in pain.

Barbe

Lady Grey, I would suggest joining a support group. This forum is fantastic; don't get me wrong. But, personally, it helped me to lay eyes on and talk to others going through active treatment. Then, the thought of chemo wasn't quite as daunting. Cancer is very isolating. Most that are new to the "cancer world" perceive a chemo patient as weak, emaciated, puking, and on death's door. And I was very surprised to see that was NOT the case. I didn't think a support group would provide as much support as it has. I have made some very close friends, whom are all dealing with the same fears and challenges.



Obviously, you will make whatever choice you think is right for you.



No one is trying to "bully" Lady Grey. She's a big girl. She deserves to be presented with all the information. The ladies on these boards are a wealth of information. No one person should try to denigrate the others' views/opinions/experiences.

Impositive I had a friend who was her2 positive and tried alternative treatments. Her cancer came back in spades. When she had her recurrance she did the chemo and rads route, but her cancer was super aggresive and in the end nothing worked. However, she lived her life and traveled and was water skiing with her kids a few weeks before she passed.  The combination of treatments kept her alive for six years. She even went to Mexico to try some alternative treatments there. In other words everyone does have a choice about how they choose to be treated, you telling people chemo is poison is not helping anyone, anymore than people telling you that your alternative treatments don't work. I see alot of positive advice in here and I do believe people mean well.

However it comes across Lady Gray, we all in our own way want you to know that you are loved! Whatever you do or choose, I know that all these ladies are here to support you.

(((hugs)))

Impositive,

Here's is what you say:  And I said, "It's simply not true" because it isn't. I and others are and have gone another way in our fight. I would never advocate doing "nothing". I am Her2+++ and still here and plan to be for a very long time, without the use of chemo and rads. We are in this together but our choices are what separates us. I am so thankful that I learned there are viable alternatives to my war on this disease. 

Impositive, can you share with us how your bc journey is going?  Your "viable alternatives?"  I wouldn't be so snarky, but have always seemed to present yourself as the alternative, think-out-of-the box hero that maintains that natural, alternative treatments are the only way to go.  You say it again in the above quotation.  So back it up.  With your own facts.  Can you tell us if you've had any recent progression with your Her2+ cancer that you refuse to treat with Herceptin? At least let Ladygrey and others be able to chart your progress on your alternative regimen?

As Beesie said in a recent post on another forum, it's important to know that all of these choices, alternative, conventional, or a combination of both, have consequences.  Those who maintain that alternative/natural is the only way that "informed people" should go always complain that their way works, but it's just that no one takes the time to chart the successes.  So impositive, let's chart it.  How is your journey going with your decision not to take Herceptin because it's not "all natural?"  

Sorry, Eve, I beg to differ.  Impositive has been quite clear about her statements on this thread, so I'm just asking her to share with Ladygrey and others reading on this thread about her progress, her journey.

Another quote earlier today from impositive:

"Unproven alternative treatments?" They are unproven because no one bothers to try and prove them. Of course that's understandable because its business and businesses must make a profit.

So, again, impositive, you always use the same argument, that alternatives, "boost your immune system, "cancer is a fungus, cancer is an infection" and so on, and all of these natural treatments are perfectly viable but no one bothers to record their positive results.  So, I ask again, here's your chance to chart your progress for us, for BCO, for the medical industrial complex. Tell us, your viable alternatives that you tell Ladygrey work perfectly as well as Herceptin or chemo and rads, how's it going?  

We've discussed over and over the side effects of more conventional treatments.  Impositive, what are the side effects of your viable "natural, alternative" treatments?