Triple negative from Brazil (T3 Nx M0)
Comments
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HAve they prescribed her ativan or lorazapam-anti-anxiety meds? I can't take the steroids without it, they make me too shaky and send me into a panic attack. Some of the anti nausea medicines do the same thing to me-cause anxiety and make me shake, it's a weird feeling.
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I was told with the anti-nausea drugs you have to stay on top it. That is, take them continously, on time, to avoid the nausea. When I tried that at the beginning of my chemo, I became very constipated. Eventually, you will find a balance, perhaps not exactly as prescribed by the doctor.
Some foods are more soothing to an upset stomach than others. Ginger and cola have been home remedies for years. Do you have ginger ale in Brazil? There were days when that was all I needed to keep my stomach in check. Ginger snaps (cookies) were good to nibble on, too. When I was little, my mother used to give us cola soda (like Pepsi or Coke) that was allowed to go flat and lose its carbonization. We even had a bottle of cola syrup in the medicine cabinet for quick doses. I don't think they would be good for hardcore nausea, but once it's under control, they are good for maintenance. -
So, 7 days after chemo...
Nausea is gone, she's doing really fine.
Just made her a smoothie of açai with papaya and banana haha yummi!
PS: Açai is an amazonian fruit, it's really good thing to take. It's a bomb of anti oxidants and resveratrol (that famous substance present in the wine, which makes good to drink a glass everyday... But guess what? Açai have multiple times more resveratrol), it also boosts the immune system and does all kinds of good stuff, so check it out! But don't go with the syrup, it's not as good, cause it's industrial, full of chemical, fake colour and etc... There's a brand called 'tribal', which it's called 'Sambazon' in USA (don't know why haha), it's the same I buy in here, 100% natural. only brown sugar, and natural guarana powder. http://www.sambazon.com/products/smoothiepacks_original
But, back to the topic... One thing that is bothering me is: For you, triple negative girls, in how many days were you able to actually feel any results from chemo? (shrinking, lymph nodes gone and so on)
7 days gone, and still could't see anything. I know it's too soon, but I was expecting at least a single lymph node to go away =/
What happens when the tumor shrinks? the lump remains (as dead tumor cells?)
Nipple goes back to normal?
Thank you girls, I'll keep you updated!
Ps: tell me how are you all doing!
A super mega blaster bear hug to all of you!
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Hi hon,
Good to hear things are going well for your Mom so far! I've heard about acai here in the States. Will have to look into that. Wish I could help you on the time frame on the effects of the chemo but I had surgery first. So my hope is that if there were any lingering cells that the chemo and rads zapped the rest!
Hugs to you and your Mom!
Sharon
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NancyD: No, we don't have ginger ale in here =/ I heard it helps... Anyway, thank you for the hint with the ginger snaps! We have lots o' those! You're very nice, thank you!
bkj66: I don't think she's on ativan or lorazapam.... She's only taking Rivotril (hardcore medication to bring a lion down), but only when she needs. I don't like this aproach, they prescribed it in the ER, I'll talk with the onc so we can give her any other 'soft' drug instead of this bomb -I don't think it's good for her kidney!
Sharon: My angel, I really hope this too. I'm putting all my heart believing that chemo is going to kick the crap out of any stupid cell.
Again, really, go for açai, specially those of you going through chemo! You can eat it blended, with water, fruits like banana (when you feel better of nausea), make popsicles (for those hard days), or whatever you wanna do with it. Anything to keep you strong! This brand I posted make it perfect for us, cause a package comes with the exactly individual portion, makes easier to prepare, without all the mess.
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Hey bruno, i was told by my onc not to take any anti oxidants while on treatment because it may diminish how the tx work. My very elementary explanation is that i think since chemo kills the cancer cells including some good cells in the process, anti oxidants make it harder for that to happen. Normally that is a good thing but we all want chemo to kill those stupid ca cells.
You are such a great daughter and advocate for your mom. If i did not have family esp my hubby ans mom, i would not be where i am today. Your mom has an angel/warrior behind her ! -
I'm sorry Bruno....I'm a little late chiming in. I've read everything and it sounds like you are doing an amazing job taking care of your mom, you're so well informed. I'm not triple neg. but I did feel my tumor shrink during chemo, but I think it was round 2-3. I also had inflammatory breast cancer (IBC) and I saw that leave also during chemo. I had internal + lymph nodes as well and chemo along with radiation took care of those. My first round of AC was terrible, my nausea came more from motion (vertigo) I couldn't even watch TV. So starting round 2 I used a motion sickness patch behind my ear and it worked great, I would place it there about an hour before each round and would wear it until the next day....it was a God sent. Each round got better and better too, I think it hits you hard and your body isn't use to it. I'm so glad you found this site and the other girls have been supporting you. It will get better, I'm almost a year out and I'm doing great and your mom will too. She is at the worst place right now, the beginning with all the test and waiting, the unknown is very scary I was a complete basketcase. Stay strong and come here often we're here for you.
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@Letlet Thanks for sharing this! But, I've done a bit of research lately about it... And seems that they're good
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070426132954.htm
Anyway, I won't be giving her any pharma suplementation , açai is a fruit, and I doubt it would be bad for the chemo
Jennifer: Thanks for sharing your amazing experience! I know IBC is not a walk in the park, but I'm happy that your tx took care of your internal nodes and gave you a good result!
I wish I could say we're fine , but... I'm kind of broken today... Another doc scared the hell out of me today... She told me that supraclavicular nodes (those above the collar bone) 'might shrink, but won't disappear'. Why would her say something like that? What's wrong with these people? I didn't tell her, don't think it's true anyway, and telling her that crap will only make things worst. As long as there's a tx, there's hope it WILL disappear.
But the news about hard times with them made me research more...
Have you girls heard about Cyber Knife? Anyone here used it with enlarged nodes?
Could be an option to get rid of resistent cancer in the lymph nodes, but... There's no cyber knife in Brazil... and if we get in another country to do it particular, it's $18.000 for a single session. I heard Canada have it for free, but we don't have any conection with Canada =/
It's hard when you read about treatments that are just out of your reach.
Another thing that bugs me is that seems that she's doing 'standard dose' AC. I thought they would give her a cannon shot , throw the big guns against it... Don't know what to do about it. Don't know if they can raise the dose up, or whatever.
I asked them about 24 hour drip chemo: they only say 'no, it's not good. Toxicity acumulates even more' but I feel that they're only saying that cause in brazil public care, the least you spend with a patient is better. 24 hour drip chemo would need staying at the hospital and stuff, and they don't wanna do that. And that kind of thing makes me wanna buy a gun and hunt these sold out bastards.
I feel like my hands are tied...
If it's hard to advocate in USA, where you actually choose your TX, imagine if you needed to fight to actually get any treatment, and don't really had a choice =/
Even worse, when they say that most new treatments are just 'not standard, we won't use it, shut up'
I've been really low lately... But I can't let her notice. So I'll take a deep breath and make sure I look strong and confident enough.
Thank you for the support girls, I mean it. Don't know what I would do without it. Hope you are doing well, take care.
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(((Hugs))) Bruno!
I know this has been terribly hard for you too. Just try to remember what I said before "your Mom is NOT a statistic"---so whatever that one doc told you just try to shove it out of your mind, that your Mom is not going to be that person.
I can relate to dumb things docs say sometimes. My initial dx was done by a general surgeon. When I went in for my pathology report after he told me there was cancer he asked me if I already had life insurance---within 5 minutes of telling me I had BC! WTF????? I look back now and HOPE what he meant was it could be harder to get life insurance now, but damn at the time I thought he was telling me I was going to die! Needless to say I have never gone back to that doc. SHEESH! The ONE thing he did suggest (and what your Mom is doing
)and wish now I had done was to get the chemo first before surgery to shrink the tumor. I was SO freaked out at the time and had never heard of anyone doing that and after going to Johns Hopkins for a consult they said no, we would do surgery first. Well I had to wait 7 weeks for that surgery at JH and had one HUGE tumor plus other smaller ones. Perhaps the GS was right on that one. Oh well, like I said, we can't change the past can we? Just keep on keepin on!
Love,
Sharon
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I didn't know if my tumor was shrinking until the ct scan I had after 3 treatments. I can't feel my tumor as it is in deep and can't feel the nodes either. I am getting a pet scan when I am done with ac and then I start abraxane/carbo and possibly avastin.
I know high dose anti-oxidants are not recommended, but foods containing anti oxidants are good as they don't over do it- at least that is how I understand it.
Yeah, the 24 hour drip is interesting, my doc really believes in it and has used it for many years with great results. MD anderson had a study on it but I neeed to find the study. It is very expensive and I think is used in only cases where there is higher risk, as I have had ac once already and am doing maximum lifetime dose, which is scary. I think most stay under lifetime dose. I think the 24 hour drip is more common in cancers such as leukemia and hodgkins. It is way more expensive, as each hospital stay costs $30,000 to $40,000, so I do wonder if that is why it is not offered unless there is more risk involved.
I am worried that I might hit my insurance lifetime maximum!
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Bruno - you are so caring, your mom is truly blessed!
I am Stage IIIc TN - I can relate to you and your mom's fears, it is very scary. But, my doctor is not about to give up on me, and she thinks we have a shot at this. So does your mom!!
About the supraclavicular nodes - mine popped up after chemo and surgery, and rads took them out. I can still feel one of them, but it is soft, and likely scar tissue. So if chemo doesn't get every last cancer cell, radiation is very effective!
AC at standard dose IS the big gun - too much and you risk heart issues. But keep in mind that TNs actually respond better to the taxanes, so you might see some change on AC (I had a 50% overall reduction), but the second half of her treatment might be what really knocks it out! Will her doctors monitor her progress with scans to make sure? I would push for that - really hard - so that if there is no change, they can move to a different chemo. The platins (Cisplatin especially) have also shown a lot of promise in TN. I know you are not in the US, so I'm not quite sure how they do things.
Also, my doctor has put me on Xeloda as a "preventative" after my surgery and radiation. It is a very manageable chemo, in pill form, and side effects aren't nearly as brutal. Our hope is that it knocks out the small stuff we can't see. Perhaps this might be an option after everything?
Many doctors say "no antioxidants," but I think that is starting to be disproved. Dr. Keith Block, who runs an integrative cancer center, argues for their use during chemo based on research. His book, "Life Over Cancer," is great - it offers advice on diet and exercise, some a bit extreme, but it may be something to read and take what you can from it.
Diet and exercise are very important for TN. Some studies have shown a decrease in recurrence as high as 40% when fat intake is less than 20% of calories, and exericse is at about 5 hours/week. Now, during chemo, that is VERY hard. But afterwards, try and encourage your mother to make some changes in this respect, if need be. It is the one thing I feel I actually have control over - and it helps me feel better. I'm not perfect - gotta live life! - but definitely better.
Hugs to you and your mother. Such a scary disease. I will keep her in my thoughts and fingers crossed that she responds well to her chemo. Best wishes.
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bkj - lifetime max is one of the things that was eliminated with the change in insurance laws. Should have taken effect I think the end of last year. Anyway, no more max, so you should be good! I don't believe any company can be "grandfathered in" either.
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Sharon, that's right! We're not damm numbers! These words will stick with us until it's over! thank you my dear!
Suze, thanks for your post. It's really full of hope and good information!
I've read about Cisplatin and Carboplatin specially in basal tipes (which is her case), but can a patient do both? for now her plan is ACT + surgery + radio. I wanted to know if in case of residual disease she could also do Cisplatin,( i've read some docs do iniparib/gemcitabine/carboplatin),
bkj66: So you won't do Taxol? If I got things right, your plan is: AC then Abraxane (which is that new nano particle Paclitaxel, right?), carbo, and avastin?
Her onc here said Avastin is only applied for another kind of cancer, lungs I guess, and just cut me off like I was doing a stupid question.
I've read a lot about avastin, didn't they discontinued the use or something like that? It's like half of the studies put it in an holy place, and others say it's too much side effects and not much improvement... Don't know what to think about it.
After all, xeloda? I feel so divided... Mom never wanted to suffer in treatments if they had low chance of cure. I've been pushing her through all of this, and I have nightmares all night that she's crying in a bed, weak because of different chemo plans... I keep saying that she's ok, and her disease is highly curable... But I feel kind of guilty doing this...
That being said, I don't know if I should push her into cisplatin after all... I just don't know when to stop if it becomes too much for her.
But let's forget that low vibe, and focus in something more practical!
In Brazil people suffer lots during radiotherapy.
Do they use any product in US to prevent burn and pain? Or at least make it more doable?
I heard about Biafine RE cream, did anyone here used it?
Also... What kind of rads are availeble for breast and specially those clavicular lymph nodes? I saw CT based 3d Rads, radio surgery, and more expensive stuff like cyber knife system.
What bugs me is that if we won't advocate, they'll probably do the cheapest and 'whatever'.
What kind of rads did you get?
About the tests to monitor chemo... Well... They have the mri, the CT... Bone scan... but no one was near chemo. Actually, CT was about 2 months before.
I went to another hospital, we're doing a pet-ct soon. What kind of test you used to monitor chemo results Suze?
Thanks my angels, I wish I could give a giant hug in each one of you right now.
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Hi Boo and Nana,
I don't remember the precise rads I had, but I do know it was targeted therapy. I went in a day or two before I was supposed to start and had a set up appointment. They had me lay on the table and put a pad filled w/what felt like the little things in a bean bag. Then they situated me w/my arm over my head and sucked the air out of the "bag" until it form fitted around me. This took about 45 minutes of moving me around, rechecking, re-sucking the air out until they got it just so. They also placed waterproof "spots" of ink on my breast area to line up w/the machine and then calibrated the machine to those exact coordinates. Some places still do an actual tattoo to mark the spots, but my place did the ink spots w/a clear bandage over it. Worked great! THEN from that point on each visit was only a few minutes of actual radiation! The set up was the longest appointment.
Regarding burns, I did not have an issue at all until the last week when I did develop almost like a bad sunburn on my breast. They gave me SSD cream to put on after tx's. They do not recommend anything on it right before tx's as I believe it can interfer w/the effectiveness. I healed very quickly after tx was done. I had 30 tx's total, 5 days a week.
Say ola to Nana for me!
(((Hugs)))
Sharon
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Hi Bruno,
Avastin is a controversial drug, and I don't think your doctor will approve it, my treatments will probably stop once the FDA takes away their approval. It is a drug that can come with some significant side effects - and doesn't work for everyone. This isn't a battle I would fight with your mom's doctor I think.
Cisplatin in particular appears to be effective with TN, and is the drug that most doctors offer if the cancer hasn't responded well to initial chemo. I did Carboplatin before surgery, and am a rare example of someone who did not respond, so it wouldn't make sense for me personally to try again. Cisplatin can be a tough drug to tolerate, but Carboplatin was pretty easy on me (remember, everyone responds differently!) - you and your mother have to assess if she can handle it. But that is the horse before the cart - let's assume she will respond great to the treatment they are giving her!!
I technically have "recurrent" disease, as I had lymph nodes show up positive after chemo and surgery. Because of this, my doctor was able to prescribe Xeloda. I am not sure if your mom's doctors would be able to do this until she has a "recurrence."
I had 33 rads in four fields - chest wall, axilla, supraclavicular, and intrammary. I then had another 15 treatments on a specific supraclavicular node that popped up. I used both "Jean's Cream" and "Udderly Smooth" with urea - you can get both online. I put it on in the AM, had rads in the afternoon, and applied the cream another 3-4 times/day. I had no skin breakdown, just red, like a sunburn.
One thing about TN - if it responds very well to chemo, then chances improve significantly. So I would recommend you see how your mom does on AC and Taxol - be sure to monitor - and then if things aren't as good after surgery, you can push for more therapy. In the meantime, make sure she is eating, drinking and maximizing her health while she is going through this. You are such a great son!!
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Bruno, I had taxol 8 years ago and had a terrible allergic reaction to it. They just gave me more benedryl and got me through 4 treatments of it, but I was miserable. I may not have the same reaction with abraxane, so that is why I am pushing for it. Doc is adding carbo and wants to also add avastin, but I am not sure about that one yet, might be hard to get insurance to pay for it.
So, Suze35, there is no more lifetime max on what insurances can pay out? I was reviewing our policy and it said 1 million, but what I was reading could have been old. (Sorry this is off topic Bruno!)
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bkj - I PM'd you
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BRUNO can you be my SON???
I am too young to have a SON your age so at least be my friend! You are awesome. I see that other ladies have stepped in and guided you. I would just encourage you to stay on course and research what you don't understand.
Best wishes to you and your mom...
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Blood test today. Round 2 of AC coming soon. She's really fine by now, we went to a museum yesterday to see Lasar Segall paintings/sculptures. There was one called 'Maternidade', which stands for motherhood/maternity. Here's a pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabiga/1449443662/lightbox/
It really touched me... It's a mother breastfeeding her baby, but the way
the piece was made... In a single piece of metal, to symbolize that mother and son are one. It was just the perfect thing to see, in the right time.We took a
deep breath and I gave her a giant hug. We walked for a while , saw some old LP store, and then went home.
I'm still afraid... I'm still kind of broken with this numbness surrounding our future, but... I really wanted to share this moment with you all.
After all, isn't true that moments like that are what matters in life?
Cheers for tomorrow we fight girls, this is war. And for the newbies reading this, all I can say is:
Don't let cancer take over your life. Live! Live and make the time you have special (no matter how much time it is, 10 years, 5 years, or a week) .
Loving hugs for you all!
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Carry on the good work, Bruno! I'm going in for my 7th cycle tomorrow, and then I'll only have one left....I can hardly wait...but the point is that the time has passed, and I'm feeling more in control as I'm learning constantly, and knowledge and experience empower...and I'm sure it'll be the same for you and yr mum..... hugs to you both
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I found a trial on Her2 negative (both triple negative and hormone positive are eligible), it's open, phase 3 and it's been currently being done across entire USA:A Clinical Trial Comparing the Combination of TC Plus Bevacizumab to TC Alone and to TAC for Women With Node-Positive or High-Risk Node-Negative, HER2-Negative Breast CancerEven though we don't live in US, maybe it can be helpful to any of you, specially to anyone interested in Bevacizumab.
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Sounds like an awesome outing Bruno! Give hugs to Nana for me. We've been "poking" one another on FB
Sharon
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Last AC in 2 days girls, no more palpable lymph nodes, tumor went from almost 10cm to 5 so far.
No mets. Guess we're doing alright so far!
Thank you all so much for being here, and sharing confort words in the troubled days.
How are you all doing?
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Yay Bruno, so glad to hear she's responding well to the chemo!!!! How has she been feeling????
(((Hugs)))
Sharon
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Glad to hear everything is going good. It will continue to get even better once chemo is done. Hang in there.
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She's been really well after all, no low white cells level... Only fatigue , and in the last few days the worst thing is coughing all day long. I worried about the lung but they're clear. It's just a common infection, but it's really a pain in the... coff coff.
She'll begin taxol soon. I'm considering boosting her d3 dose level, and also the other calcium+magnesium pill.
Now she's taking 1 capsule of 10.000ui D3 , 2 days a week, and 2 pills of mag+calcium+zinc 2 times a week also.
I wanna check her levels to see how she's doing, but as far as I've read, there's no 'standard d3' level, there are girls with 83, others with 50...
Guess I'm just scared of bone pains of taxol. =/
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Boo I never had bone pain w/Taxol. It was MUCH easier than the A/C for me! I did lose what was left of my eyebrows and lashes during the end of it, but they came back very quickly. I only had bad bone pain after the Emend shot during the A/C.
Sharon
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So, the news (pan pan pan)
4 AC, done, 5 taxol done, 3 to go.
Something like +70% of the tumor's volume is gone, they said it's a great great response.
Mastectomy with reconstruction scheduled to 12/9, then they said they'll begin radio like 2 or 3 months latter. Is it ok?
I mean, in Brazil's public care you have to fight for things to move faster, and 3 months seems a lot to me. Depending on what you say, I'll just chill out and wait -maybe she needs this time to recover anyway since she'll get a lot of radiation. But if it's too much time, I'll make sure she gets it sooner.
What do you think girls?
I hope you all are doing ok! I'm presenting my thesis 3 days before her surgery, an opportunity to make her proud for a while haha I'll let you know how it goes!
Again, thank you all for the amazing support, it really gets better, so if any newbie is reading this, hang in there, take a deep breath, hold on! IT REALLY GETS BETTER!
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So glad to hear the chemo is doing it's job! She will need time to recuperate from the surgery before rads, but since I had mine after surgery I don't know what the typical time frame is. 2 months sounds about right as she will have drains that will need to come out first, although 3 sounds kind of long. Not sure. I'm sure someone here has the info you need though.
(((Hugs)))
Sharon
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Congratualtions on moving on with tx. I'm so happy for you and your mom, you sound so much better than when you first came here. I can't offer much help on the rads time frame, I didn't do recon and started rads 1 month after surgery. I'm not sure what a proper time line would be, hopefully someone will come along. Again, congrats and good luck with your thesis. Let us know how things go.
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